How is the LDS a cult?

[TexanKnight]

Wow PJM, there’s quite a bit of your post that is very much false.Of course that’s not what mormons are taught, or believe. Anyone can take a quick walk through the church’s website at lds.org to quickly find out what we do believe.

Well, be honest here. LDS teaches, or at least taught that God was a sinful man who became a god. So PJM is not incorrect.

I’ve heard this quite often, but never from a mormon. Every time I hear it, it is from a critic of my faith, telling me what I believe.

For the record: Everything I believe about Christ’s conception, in it’s entirety, is found in the Bible. I don’t read anything into what it says. Anything else is speculation.

Then you do not know LDS teachings.

Obviously false. A very foundational, basic list of my faith’s beliefs are the 13 Articles of Faith. My 11 yr old daughter is memorizing them now. #8 says “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God”

Not false. You only accept the Bible when you think it was translated correctly. So, in LDS teachings that have no basis in Scripture, the Scripture is changed to meet Joseph’s desires.

Mormons believe the Bible and BoM go hand in hand.

Not really true. BoM is far and above the Bible in LDS world

 

[NeuroTypical]

Hi TexanKnight,

“god the father” A human person who used his sexuality to beget sons

Wow PJM, there’s quite a bit of your post that is very much false.Of course that’s not what mormons are taught, or believe.Well, be honest here. LDS teaches, or at least taught that God was a sinful man who became a god. So PJM is not incorrect.

Ok, agreed. TexanKnight, let’s indeed be honest here.

Can you find anywhere in any LDS source where our Heavenly Father is referred to with a lower-case “g”? I know it’s a common tactic of our critics to use that lower case g for shock value - trying to point out how little we think of God. But I’ve never seen such a thing come from a mormon. If you have, please cite your source.

I’ve never heard God referred to as, or thought of Him as, a “human person”. We do believe what the Bible says about me being a child of God though. We do take it literally. We do count on Christ’s words about us becoming joint heirs with Christ, and how He has inhereted everything God has. So yes, we believe we have a divine nature, and we believe in exhaltation. That’s very, very different than the dismissive scare tactic of “yoo marminz think god is nuthin’ more than a common human”.

Isn’t it? I mean, since we’re being honest here?

For the record: Everything I believe about Christ’s conception, in it’s entirety, is found in the Bible. I don’t read anything into what it says. Anything else is speculation.

Then you do not know LDS teachings.

Well to be sure, plenty of mormons have speculated about various aspects. We’re hardly alone in Christendom in thinking and guessing and arguing about the attributes of the divine. But speculation and guessing is not authoritative teaching.

In other words, Hi TexanKnight - my name is NeuroTypical. I’ve taught Gospel Principles classes and Sunday School lessons and Elder’s Quorum lessons off and on, for going on 8 or 9 years now. Every single time I’ve taught about Christ’s conception, I’m careful to use these words, and no more than these words:

And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.
…
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

One of those scriptures is from the KJV of the Gospel according to St. Luke.

LDS do not accept anything as true; right or correct in what the bible tesches.

Obviously false. A very foundational, basic list of my faith’s beliefs are the 13 Articles of Faith. My 11 yr old daughter is memorizing them now. #8 says "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God"Not false. You only accept the Bible when you think it was translated correctly. So, in LDS teachings that have no basis in Scripture, the Scripture is changed to meet Joseph’s desires.

I understand your criticism, but it isn’t what PJM claimed. There’s a difference between “LDS do not accept anything in the bible”, and “You only accept the Bible when you think it’s correct”. Right?

I mean yes, mormons are not inerrantists. We don’t believe in sola scriptura. If you want to criticize us, are there not enough valid true things to criticize us about? Why defend obvious falsehoods?

No really - I’ve stood in front of classes, holding up the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and I’ve asked them flat out “which one is more important?” I’ve then gone on to talk about how thinking in those terms is misguided. The Holy Bible is a precious record of Christ, passed down through the millenia. The BoM is a second record from the other end of the planet - pointing at the Bible and saying “Yeah, what that says”. Two witnesses that Jesus is the Christ! How important is that!

btw, I’ve also thanked Catholics on multiple occasions in these classrooms, for keeping and preserving the Bible for our times. I am sincerely grateful.

 

[twopekinguys]

Neuro,

I am assuming you are aware of this then?

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us

This is from D & C 130:22.

“Body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s”. is pretty clear wouln’t you say?

How did the mormon god get this body if he wasn’t an exalted human?

 

[RebeccaJ]

These adoption abuse cases come out regularly from Utah. What do Carmen McDonald, John Wyatt and Terry Achane have in common, they’ve all had their children taken from them by Utah adoption agencies. There was a big outcry a few years ago accusing these agencies of preying on African-Americans, in that case the child was returned hopefully Mr. Wyatt and Mr. Achane will also prevail.

It’s UT, where alcohol is more carefully regulated than adoption.

sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54080103-78/birth-adoption-baby-carlton.html.csp

The president of the Utah Adoption Council resigned his post Tuesday — and launched his own competing organization — amid claims the group ignores unethical practices of some adoption agencies and has failed to treat birth fathers fairly.

Salt Lake attorney Wes Hutchins, whose one-year term was set to end in July, said he could no longer support what he described as a “systematically dysfunctional organization.”

"Too many members, but admittedly not all, do not wish to truly comply with UAC’s professed mission [of promoting] ‘a positive adoption experience for all involved, through education related to quality adoption,’ " Hutchins said in his resignation letter.

“Whether you like it or not, birth fathers are part of that equation,” he said in his letter. “Whether you admit it or not, many agencies continue to engage in unethical and unlawful practices including post-placement cash bonuses paid directly to birth moms, and coaching birth moms to lie and even defraud birth fathers regarding the birth mother’s true intentions.”

Hardy said some members were upset about surreptitious recordings Hutchins made of adoption agency workers, as well as the public stance he took during the last legislative session on a bill — opposed by the council — that would have required that birth fathers receive notice of pending adoptions.

 

[RebeccaJ]

No really - I’ve stood in front of classes, holding up the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and I’ve asked them flat out “which one is more important?” I’ve then gone on to talk about how thinking in those terms is misguided.

On the one hand, your leaders challenged all members to read the BoM in its entirety. On the other hand, there has never been the same challenge for reading the Bible.

The Holy Bible is a precious record of Christ, passed down through the millenia. The BoM is a second record from the other end of the planet - pointing at the Bible and saying “Yeah, what that says”. Two witnesses that Jesus is the Christ! How important is that!

The BoM is a work of fan fiction.

btw, I’ve also thanked Catholics on multiple occasions in these classrooms, for keeping and preserving the Bible for our times. I am sincerely grateful.

You should realize this comes across as condescending.

The Holy Spirit preserves Christ’s Church, including her scriptures.

 

[TexanKnight]

Hi TexanKnight,

Ok, agreed. TexanKnight, let’s indeed be honest here.

Whew…finally…I hope…

Can you find anywhere in any LDS source where our Heavenly Father is referred to with a lower-case “g”? I know it’s a common tactic of our critics to use that lower case g for shock value - trying to point out how little we think of God. But I’ve never seen such a thing come from a mormon. If you have, please cite your source.

Irrelevant. How you use punctuation does not change facts. If I write president Obama, it does not make him less of a president that I typed it in lower case.

I’ve never heard God referred to as, or thought of Him as, a “human person”.

Also irrelevant. What you have thought or heard does not change facts. I was LDS for several years before I heard about God once being a sinful man. I was a missionary and trained at the MTC and never heard it. That did not change the fact that it is an LDS teaching.

We do believe what the Bible says about me being a child of God though. We do take it literally. We do count on Christ’s words about us becoming joint heirs with Christ, and how He has inhereted everything God has. So yes, we believe we have a divine nature, and we believe in exhaltation. That’s very, very different than the dismissive scare tactic of “yoo marminz think god is nuthin’ more than a common human”.

Ah…so truth is a scare tactic? You believe that God is nothing more than the latest sinful man to achieve godhood. Not a scare tactic. Fact.

Isn’t it? I mean, since we’re being honest here?

Still not convinced you are being honest…at least intellectually. Not sure why you are denying LDS teaching here.

Well to be sure, plenty of mormons have speculated about various aspects. We’re hardly alone in Christendom in thinking and guessing and arguing about the attributes of the divine. But speculation and guessing is not authoritative teaching.

It is when taught by alleged prophets

I understand your criticism, but it isn’t what PJM claimed. There’s a difference between “LDS do not accept anything in the bible”, and “You only accept the Bible when you think it’s correct”. Right?

Not really. If I asked “Do you accept the Bible?” and you answer, “yes, but…” then you do NOT accept the Bible. See?

I mean yes, mormons are not inerrantists. We don’t believe in sola scriptura. If you want to criticize us, are there not enough valid true things to criticize us about? Why defend obvious falsehoods?

I have stated no falsehoods.

No really - I’ve stood in front of classes, holding up the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and I’ve asked them flat out “which one is more important?” I’ve then gone on to talk about how thinking in those terms is misguided. The Holy Bible is a precious record of Christ, passed down through the millenia. The BoM is a second record from the other end of the planet - pointing at the Bible and saying “Yeah, what that says”. Two witnesses that Jesus is the Christ! How important is that!

lol…irrelevant. I challenge you to read the teachings of LDS prophets where the Book of Mormon “is the most correct book” That line puts it on a level higher than the Bible. In addition, I challenge you to find me challenges from the GA’s to read the Bible in a year, or Read the Bible in 6 months, etc. I never heard a challenge like that in all my years as LDS. However, I heard almost monthly challenges to “read the BoM in 40 days”, or Read the BoM in 4 months", etc etc. Spin it how you want. The problem is, you can;t fool those of us who know.

 

[TexanKnight]

Neuro,

I am assuming you are aware of this then?

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us

This is from D & C 130:22.

“Body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s”. is pretty clear wouln’t you say?

How did the mormon god get this body if he wasn’t an exalted human?

To show you how confused Joseph was, He also claimed in Lectures on Faith, that God was Spirit and Jesus was flesh and bones…

 

[NeuroTypical]

You believe that God is nothing more than the latest sinful man to achieve godhood. Not a scare tactic. Fact.

I’m at a loss. How do you have a discussion with someone who tells you what you believe? How do you interact with someone who claims to know better than you, what is in your heart and mind?

I’m a daddy of daughters. I’m a husband. I’m an employee, a member of a neighborhood, a community. I’m a human being - and I get to say for myself what I believe and what I don’t. You don’t know me - you don’t get to say what I believe. It is fine when people want to criticize and argue with what I actually believe - but you’re not doing that here.

TexasKnight, I do NOT believe “God is nothing more than the latest sinful man to achieve godhood”. When I think of God, the phrase “nothing more than” has never entered my mind. How uncharitable of you! How rude! Is this the love you show to your fellow man when you disagree with them? Assign them an attribute which demonizes them? How dare you bear false witness against me and mischaracterize my faith and belief in Deity?

I’ll say it one last time - there are enough valid, actual, real differences between what I believe and what you believe, to have genuine discussion. There is no valid reason to stick up such insulting straw men.

The last word is yours.

 

[TexanKnight]

I’m at a loss.

understandable

How do you have a discussion with someone who tells you what you believe? How do you interact with someone who claims to know better than you, what is in your heart and mind?

Perhaps you misread me. I am not telling you what you believe. I am telling you what the LDS has said was and/or is, doctrine. I have no way if you truly believe, or even truly know and understand the true LDS doctrine…

I’m a daddy of daughters. I’m a husband. I’m an employee, a member of a neighborhood, a community. I’m a human being - and I get to say for myself what I believe and what I don’t. You don’t know me - you don’t get to say what I believe. It is fine when people want to criticize and argue with what I actually believe - but you’re not doing that here.

What you are is irrelevant to what LDS Doctrine is. I am a father of three children. I am a husband. I am an attorney, former city councilman, former Army Officer and officer in the Guard. Does all of that mean the Catholic Church is true?

TexasKnight, I do NOT believe “God is nothing more than the latest sinful man to achieve godhood”.

Irrelevant. I said that was LDS Doctrine. I am pleased you do not believe in LDS Doctrine.

When I think of God, the phrase “nothing more than” has never entered my mind.

Again, I am glad.

How uncharitable of you! How rude!

Really? I speak the truth about LDS Doctrine and you call me names? Is that how Mormons act? You go door to door telling people that their Church is a false Church and you belong to the only true Church and you are offended when someone says that to you?

Is this the love you show to your fellow man when you disagree with them?

Would it be a greater show of love if I did not speak out against a bad doctrine? When Jesus was direct and forceful, was He less full of love? I speak out against bad teaching and you judge me as unloving?

Assign them an attribute which demonizes them?

I have not said anything against you. There is truly no need to play the victim. I spoke out with the truth about LDS Teachings. I did not judge or demonize you.

How dare you bear false witness against me and mischaracterize my faith and belief in Deity?

I do not judge anyone. I do as instructed: speak out against false doctrine. The fact that God was once a sinful man is simply false doctrine.

I’ll say it one last time - there are enough valid, actual, real differences between what I believe and what you believe, to have genuine discussion. There is no valid reason to stick up such insulting straw men.

All I speak is truth.

The last word is yours.

Truth is always the last word. Be Blessed

 

[PJM]

=NeuroTypical;10103417]Wow PJM, there’s quite a bit of your post that is very much false.Of course that’s not what mormons are taught, or believe. Anyone can take a quick walk through the church’s website at lds.org to quickly find out what we do believe.

I’ve heard this quite often, but never from a mormon. Every time I hear it, it is from a critic of my faith, telling me what I believe.

For the record: Everything I believe about Christ’s conception, in it’s entirety, is found in the Bible. I don’t read anything into what it says. Anything else is speculation.

Obviously false. A very foundational, basic list of my faith’s beliefs are the 13 Articles of Faith. My 11 yr old daughter is memorizing them now. #8 says “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God” Mormons believe the Bible and BoM go hand in hand.

Geez - what a horrible opinion you must have of me. And you don’t even know me.

Friend, what I shared was from research of LDS sites and not all personal.

I have had in-depth discussions with multiple LDS advocates

http://carm.org/mormon-beliefs

Is a typical LDS Info site

It’s not personal friend and it’s incredible to think that God waited 1800 years for Mormons to come along and be the ones who aloje can correctly interpret the bible.

2nd. Peter 1: 20-21 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

“Proverbs 30:5-6 Every word of God is tested; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Add nothing to his words, lest he reprimand you, and you be proved a liar.

Mark 7:13 “Making void the word of God by your own tradition, which you have given forth. And many other such like things you do.”

Luke 4:4 “And Jesus answered him: It is written, that Man liveth not by bread alone, but by every word of God.”

Luke 11:28 “But he said: Yea rather, blessed are they who hear the word of God, and keep it”

God Bless MY FRIEND; nothing persoanl here:thumbsup:

 

[twopekinguys]

Neuro,

I am assuming you are aware of this then?

22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us

This is from D & C 130:22.

“Body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s”. is pretty clear wouln’t you say?

How did the mormon god get this body if he wasn’t an exalted human?

Bump for Neuro.

Also, keep in mind that many of the people (including Texan and Rebecca) are former mormons, and know what they were taught and experienced.

Using the automatic persecution card of “Telling you what you believe” won’t fly around here.

 

[TexanKnight]

Bump for Neuro.

Also, keep in mind that many of the people (including Texan and Rebecca) are former mormons, and know what they were taught and experienced.

Using the automatic persecution card of “Telling you what you believe” won’t fly around here.

I have found that, as soon as Mormons discover I am a former Mormon who served as a missionary, in the Bishopric and in the Elder’s Quorum Presidency, they stop responding to me. They realize I know the truth.

 

[twopekinguys]

I have found that, as soon as Mormons discover I am a former Mormon who served as a missionary, in the Bishopric and in the Elder’s Quorum Presidency, they stop responding to me. They realize I know the truth.

Don’t you just hate it when that happens?

 

[SteveVH]

I’m at a loss. How do you have a discussion with someone who tells you what you believe? How do you interact with someone who claims to know better than you, what is in your heart and mind?

I’m a daddy of daughters. I’m a husband. I’m an employee, a member of a neighborhood, a community. I’m a human being - and I get to say for myself what I believe and what I don’t. You don’t know me - you don’t get to say what I believe. It is fine when people want to criticize and argue with what I actually believe - but you’re not doing that here.

TexasKnight, I do NOT believe “God is nothing more than the latest sinful man to achieve godhood”. When I think of God, the phrase “nothing more than” has never entered my mind. How uncharitable of you! How rude! Is this the love you show to your fellow man when you disagree with them? Assign them an attribute which demonizes them? How dare you bear false witness against me and mischaracterize my faith and belief in Deity?

I’ll say it one last time - there are enough valid, actual, real differences between what I believe and what you believe, to have genuine discussion. There is no valid reason to stick up such insulting straw men.

The last word is yours.

While this post was not directed to me, I can appreciate your frustration in having people tell you what you believe. You must understand, however, that there seem to be as many opinions on what Mormons believe as there are Mormons.

Would you just, in your own words, tell us what you believe to be the difference between God and man? Is he just another man with a lot of experience or is he something altogether different?

Thanks

 

[NeuroTypical]

Would you just, in your own words, tell us what you believe to be the difference between God and man?

I appreciate the question.

In my own words, I believe I am a literal child of God, who is literally my Father in heaven. I believe there is a spark of the divine in me, I am created in His image, with the potential to be like Him. I believe Christ’s claim in John 16:15 is literally true, and I believe what Romans 8:17 says about it, and I believe Romans 8:17 is also to be taken literally. In plain words, my beliefs about exhaltation do not reduce God, they elevate man.

I understand the concept of deification, of exhaltation, the notion that being joint-heirs with Christ, upsets many non-LDS Christians. I understand a mormon’s concept of a Godhead is different than the triune concept held by so many other Christians. I have no problem with people who have a problem with my beliefs. Mormons do indeed have a very different concept of the nature of God than Catholics. But we can have honest disagreements, without all the sensationalistic word-twisting can’t we? I can believe I have divine potential, without believing “god is just a man”, can’t I?

I have heard speculation on the nature and history of God from members or leaders of my church. Everyone is free to speculate as far as the day is long, without it being a “teaching” that I am bound to believe in order to be a “good mormon”. Just because some mormon believed it, doesn’t mean I automatically do. There’s an old joke: Catholics believe the pope is infallible, but nobody believes them. Mormons believe the prophet is fallible, but nobody believes them either. I get to go by scripture and revealation, not by some interpretation of some comment by some church leader. And pretty much every mormon believes the same.

Thanks for the question, Steve.

 

[SteveVH]

I appreciate the question.
In my own words, I believe I am a literal child of God, who is literally my Father in heaven.
I believe there is a spark of the divine in me, I am created in His image, with the potential to be like Him. I believe Christ’s claim in John 16:15 is literally true, and I believe what Romans 8:17 says about it, and I believe Romans 8:17 is also to be taken literally. In plain words, my beliefs about exhaltation do not reduce God, they elevate man.

Nor do they elevate God. The difference between exaltation and theosis is that theosis holds that God shows forth his glory by giving us something that we do not possess naturally; divinity. And that is why the scriptures tell us that we are sons and daughters of God through adoption, therefore we cannot be literal sons and daughters. Literal sons and daughters have no need of being adapted by their natural (literal) parents.

I understand the concept of deification, of exhaltation, the notion that being joint-heirs with Christ, upsets many non-LDS Christians.

I don’t know of any Christian that does not believe that we will be joint heirs with Christ. We are joint heirs with Christ because we are the Father’s adopted sons and daughters. We become brothers and sisters of Christ. That is heaven. We participate in the very life of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I can believe I have divine potential, without believing “god is just a man”, can’t I?

Are you saying that you believe that God is something more than a man? Then what is he, exactly? I’m sorry, but I still haven’t heard an answer to that question. What this has to do with your divine potential I’m not sure. But I am really interested in your view of the nature of God and the nature of man. Are they the same or are they not?

I get to go by scripture and revealation, not by some interpretation of some comment by some church leader. And pretty much every mormon believes the same.

So you get to go by your interpretation of scripture and revelation (same thing, really) and don’t have to pay attention to what your church leaders teach? Why do you need them?

 

[LivingWaters7]

I find this a little curious coming from a Mormon, for the simple reason that the great majority of Mormons do not distinguish “divine” from “human”, instead beliving that God and man are of the same species, so to speak.

This is a distinction without a difference (i.e. I am not saying something opposed to what other Latter-day Saints say when they state that God and man are the same “species”). Latter-day Saint theology believes that because we are all children of God, we have the potential, through Christ’s atonement, to become like Him, since, because of our divine Father in Heaven, we all have, in the words of a Latter-day Saint writer, “an element of godliness within each of us”. For Latter-day Saints, while, as children of God our Father in Heaven, we have that spark of divinity within all of us, that does not mean that we are God, or even gods, at least at this point. Deification/Exaltation is made possible through Christ’s atonement.

Indeed, numerous Latter-day Saint writings refer to Jesus Christ as “divine”, and it is our firm belief that He is divine, in contrast to those groups that believe that Christ is merely only a prophet, or a very good man. As Jehovah/Yahweh, He is more than that.

I am, however impressed that you do not shy away from the fact that the Mormon understanding of “God” is, by its nature, polytheistic; you recognize Jesus as “a God”, therefore you believe in more than one God.

Latter-day Saint theology clearly states that while we believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct divine Persons (and can therefore be referred to as “Gods” in that sense), they are also united as the Godhead, and can also be referred to, as they are multiple times in Latter-day Saint scriptures, as “one God”. Jesus Christ is also referred to as “God”, as well as “a God”.

In any case, I am interested in how you define “divinity”? If Jesus is not “merely a human”, then how, exactly is he different, other than his level of progression?

Thanks.

Divinity is what God is. Jesus Christ, Firstborn of the Father, is the Yahweh of the Old Testament. He possesses characteristics of Divinity (i.e. what makes God, God) that we obviously do not. To quote one Latter-day Saint author in the book “How Wide the Divide: A Mormon and an Evangelical in Conversation”-“The soil from which the LDS doctrine of deification grows is the belief that humans are of the divine species and that the scriptural language of divine paternity is not merely figurative. Is God our Father or not? Will we receive God’s glory and sit on God’s throne or not? Will we become one with God or not? Granted there is a gulf between fallen humanity and exalted divinity, but Mormons believe this gulf is bridged in Christ Jesus. In our fallen condition, we are utterly different, but in our saved and glorified state we will be what God is through God’s grace, even in God’s so-called incommunicable attributes.”

I hope that helps you understand the Latter-day Saint perspective.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Bump for Neuro.

Also, keep in mind that many of the people (including Texan and Rebecca) are former mormons, and know what they were taught and experienced.

Using the automatic persecution card of “Telling you what you believe” won’t fly around here.

Don’t you just hate it when that happens?

Interestingly I see the same sort of response that is being ridiculed here, over at CARM forums, where, on the Catholic section, there is a multitude of ex-Catholics, extolling their “credentials”, and how they “know” what Catholics really teach, believe, and do. Even on this very forum, there are instances of Catholics asking to not be told what they “really” believe, etc by ex-Catholics and never-Catholics. It is certainly a valid argument, and has nothing to do with an “automatic persecution card”. This doesn’t automatically mean that ex-[insert religion] are not knowledgeable or cannot share their experiences.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Friend, what I shared was from research of LDS sites and not all personal.

I have had in-depth discussions with multiple LDS advocates

http://carm.org/mormon-beliefs

Is a typical LDS Info site

Oh dear. And after that we can look at the “Roman Catholicism” section of CARM to see what Catholics “really” believe. CARM is not a LDS site.

 

[twopekinguys]

Interestingly I see the same sort of response that is being ridiculed here, over at CARM forums, where, on the Catholic section, there is a multitude of ex-Catholics, extolling their “credentials”, and how they “know” what Catholics really teach, believe, and do. Even on this very forum, there are instances of Catholics asking to not be told what they “really” believe, etc by ex-Catholics and never-Catholics. It is certainly a valid argument, and has nothing to do with an “automatic persecution card”. This doesn’t automatically mean that ex-[insert religion] are not knowledgeable or cannot share their experiences.

But we aren’t talking about, and haven’t been talking about the behavior of other people on other sites are we?

You can find pro/anti sites for everything under the sun, so your observation is a non-sequitor

Please provide a reference for where a former Catholic on this board has tried to tell a practicing Catholic what we believe.

As far as non/never Catholics, that happens so often from extreme evangelicals that it becomes amusing. Especially when their “arguments” are shot down swiftly.

I’ll be anxious to see if your “reference” is someone who has gone to an extreme fundamentalist/evangelical church.