How is the LDS a cult?

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TexanKnight said:
No…they did not. But that is not surprising.

First, remember they were all family and/or close family friends. Second, we find from Martin Harris that they really only saw the plates “with their Spiritual Eyes”.

Finally, there is no way any could have recanted. They were already receiving violence from non LDS…imagine the violence from LDS if they recanted…and the lawsuits for fraud…would have destroyed them. But almost all DID leave the LDS Church…which, if God TRULY told them it was THE Church, would you ever leave?
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Also, there is the issue of their original testimonies all being the same, with no variation. An indicator of a group of people getting together and working out the story. There are no variation in details, as you would expect from people experiencing the same event. Not much detail at all.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Also, there is the issue of their original testimonies all being the same, with no variation. An indicator of a group of people getting together and working out the story. There are no variation in details, as you would expect from people experiencing the same event. Not much detail at all.
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Excellent point
 
RebeccaJ said:
Also, there is the issue of their original testimonies all being the same, with no variation. An indicator of a group of people getting together and working out the story. There are no variation in details, as you would expect from people experiencing the same event. Not much detail at all.
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I don’t place a lot of stock in scripted testimonials.
Royal Skousen:
On the other hand, the eight-witness statement was written by a human participant – probably Joseph Smith, in my opinion – who drew upon the language of the three-witness statement (especially the opening words) but used his own language to describe the experience of the eight witnesses: what the plates looked liked (their “appearance”), plus how these witnesses “hefted” the plates and “did handle with our hands” the leaves
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Royal Skousen said:
The earliest copy of the testimony that follows is found in the printer’s manuscript of the Book of Mormon, in the handwriting of Oliver Cowdery. Cowdery likely was the author of the statement, given his writing abilities and similarities between the document and Cowdery’s 1829 correspondence to Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith.
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Porknpie said:
Tex -

Do I understand correctly…that the 12 people who initially claimed to have seen the golden tablets all eventually recanted their testimony? Assuming true, was this on your list and if so how hi? All 12 witnesses recanting seems like something that I would pay attention to…
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None of the 12 witnesses denied that they saw, felt and lifted the plates. Even though the first three witness all fell away from the church, none of them ever denied what they had seen. Two of the witnesses came back to the church.
 
twopekinguys said:
I love the little word games you like to use along with your obsessive tendencies. This is another common tactic we see.

I am not going to go through all of your drivel, because, quite simply that is all it is.

You are clearly trying to equate CARM with CAF, and it just doesn’t work that way.

While you may not come out and specifically state you discount what someone says because they are ex mormon, that is clearly your intent. I love how people like you try to pull this.

It is most typically seen when current mormons make the statement, Don’t tell me what I believe, without realizing the person they are talking with is a former mormon.

The don’t tell me what i believe statement is also quite frequently used as the persecution card.

Trust me, we have seen these tactics over the years.

You might want to take a cue from Fatboys. His original posting style is much like yours, but has become more conversational. Try it.

If I have made this too complicated for you, I am sorry.

Oh, and by the way, welcome to my ignore list.
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Oh so when you can not refute what he is saying you use the tactic of calling it drivel. I have seen this tactic used here time and time again.
 
TexanKnight said:
Yes.

If I had nothing else to defend my position, and if my church had been proven to as false as theirs, I would likely act the same way as he does. So, I cut him some slack
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Each and every topic has been refuted time and time again. And yet you either disregard or let it zip over your heads. This is the typical tactic used by those who’s own position is so weak they have to use childish tactics to push their attack agenda forward. Very interesting.
 
The question I have asked repeadedly is how you know. Well I have heard that it has been proven through science to be either true or false. In other words, there is a belief in the arm of flesh, rather than the arm of God. Very interesting. So how long has man been on the earth? How old is the earth? 20 years ago, how many galaxies were their? 500 years ago, what did men believe the earth looked like? If science came out and said there was no God would that end the religion know as RCC?
 
Where is everyone. I knew that my words would stop you in your tracks. I won
 
Fatboys said:
Oh so when you can not refute what he is saying you use the tactic of calling it drivel. I have seen this tactic used here time and time again.
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Right back at ya!

Here, and I thought you had turned over a new leaf in your posting style. Obviously, I won’t make that mistake again.

You have successfully demonstrated every mormon tactic we have seen here, so I am not sure why I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, did you ever find something that showed your 99% claim? You have had ample time to provide it, but so far all I hear is crickets chirping.

The so called “proof” that you provided did not substantiate your 99% claim, so I guess you either intentionally deceived, or you couldn’t or didn’t understand what you read.

So, I will break that down for you a little more. You have come on here, made unsubstantiated claims, and have refused, or been unable to back them up.

So, I guess that puts your posts into the drivel category as well. 🤷
 
Fatboys said:
The question I have asked repeadedly is how you know. Well I have heard that it has been proven through science to be either true or false. In other words, there is a belief in the arm of flesh, rather than the arm of God. Very interesting. So how long has man been on the earth? How old is the earth? 20 years ago, how many galaxies were their? 500 years ago, what did men believe the earth looked like? If science came out and said there was no God would that end the religion know as RCC?
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And the point to this incoherent ramble is???
 
twopekinguys said:
Right back at ya!

Here, and I thought you had turned over a new leaf in your posting style. Obviously, I won’t make that mistake again.

You have successfully demonstrated every mormon tactic we have seen here, so I am not sure why I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, did you ever find something that showed your 99% claim? You have had ample time to provide it, but so far all I hear is crickets chirping.

The so called “proof” that you provided did not substantiate your 99% claim, so I guess you either intentionally deceived, or you couldn’t or didn’t understand what you read.

So, I will break that down for you a little more. You have come on here, made unsubstantiated claims, and have refused, or been unable to back them up.

So, I guess that puts your posts into the drivel category as well. 🤷
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Right back at ya.
 
twopekinguys said:
And the point to this incoherent ramble is???
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It was said that our church had been disproven by science. I thought I made that clear. You claim that the Catholic church has never changed its position on anything. I was just wondering what the church believe the shape of the earth was 500 years ago. Got it now?
 
Fatboys said:
It was said that our church had been disproven by science. I thought I made that clear. You claim that the Catholic church has never changed its position on anything. I was just wondering what the church believe the shape of the earth was 500 years ago. Got it now?
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How many times do we have to explain this?

The Church has never had a DOCTRINAL change. The shape of the Earth is a red herring because it is not DOCTRINAL.

You have demonstrated a poor understanding of what is DOCTRINE. You demonstrated that with your thought that Celibacy is DOCTRINAL when it isn’t

Try again.

Now mormonism has had doctrinal changes. Which is common to cults in order for those in power to stay in power.

Oh, still waiting on your 99% reference.
 
Fatboys said:
It was said that our church had been disproven by science. I thought I made that clear. You claim that the Catholic church has never changed its position on anything. I was just wondering what the church believe the shape of the earth was 500 years ago. Got it now?
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Round. The Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham are fiction which is proven by science. Therefore Joseph Smith lied. He made it ALL up.
 
Stephen168 said:
Round. The Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham are fiction which is proven by science. Therefore Joseph Smith lied. He made it ALL up.
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Let’s add to the fact that he was a known treasure hunter/digger. He was prosecuted and convicted for it.

Let’s also not forget his numerous failed prophecies.

Let’s not forget he also tried to rejoin the Methodist Church.
 
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