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zaffiroborant
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That’s fine but you can’t call it charity, you are not giving you are paying someone for their work. Where did Christ command us to hire the hungry, the naked, the widowed?
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KathleenGee
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I went to a parish that is run by a religious order of priests who own commercial properties around the small church building, One is health center, one a home for elderly, another is a type of eatery, and a building across the street was bought to be used for parish functions as the church site is small, but they ended re-selling it and renting their own space. Another owned building is used for their international ministery that is headquartered there, as well as space for visiting priests, and rooms used for inventory for their ministry.
The priests have a ministry at the senior home, visiting seniors and saying Mass there every day.
So how far the ownership is considered strictly commercial and what is strictly religious have blurred boundaries, and the overall site, considering the impact the priests make on the West Coast, is not viewed so much as commercial.
The parish supports those in need with free help and has a great St. Vincent De Paul Program.
Yes, the parish has commercial income, but its Sunday collections are ample to serve its parish needs. But the greater amount from these incomes from this particular parish is directed for the sustenance of its own religious institute within the entire Province, its high schools, campus ministries, the support of aging priests and brothers, and the formation of seminarians and brothers.
This focus of parishes that are endowed with commercial properties is reflective of religious orders that labor themselves to support their ministries freely given, – likewise use these incomes to care for their own just needs and continual growth in formation and ordinations.
Archdiocesan/diocesan incomes are likewise transparent and are directed to the service of all needs of the Church, including tuition assistance for private school children, care of retired priests and religious, maintenance of buildings, employee benefits, etc.
The priests have a ministry at the senior home, visiting seniors and saying Mass there every day.
So how far the ownership is considered strictly commercial and what is strictly religious have blurred boundaries, and the overall site, considering the impact the priests make on the West Coast, is not viewed so much as commercial.
The parish supports those in need with free help and has a great St. Vincent De Paul Program.
Yes, the parish has commercial income, but its Sunday collections are ample to serve its parish needs. But the greater amount from these incomes from this particular parish is directed for the sustenance of its own religious institute within the entire Province, its high schools, campus ministries, the support of aging priests and brothers, and the formation of seminarians and brothers.
This focus of parishes that are endowed with commercial properties is reflective of religious orders that labor themselves to support their ministries freely given, – likewise use these incomes to care for their own just needs and continual growth in formation and ordinations.
Archdiocesan/diocesan incomes are likewise transparent and are directed to the service of all needs of the Church, including tuition assistance for private school children, care of retired priests and religious, maintenance of buildings, employee benefits, etc.
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xixxvmcm85
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Any takers?
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choctaw
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Sometimes people seem to think with emotions in their reasoning ability’s. Wow, how could 15 million members be a cult. The size of an organization has nothing to do with what it represents. In 2005 the Encyclopedia Britannica gave a math calculation of 161,000,000 Atheists in the world, and 833,000,000 non-religious persons. Using your view of things would conclude from illogical and irrational thinking…How could that many people be wrong…there must not be a God.
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TexanKnight
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RebeccaJ
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In the 80’ and 90’s, all of the nonprofit hospitals in UT were sold. Intermountain Healthcare, a nonprofit org, purchased LDS hospital. Health Trust, Inc. purchased Holy Cross Hospital from the Sisters of the Holy Cross. St. Mark’s Hospital (Episcopal) was sold to Hospital Corporation of America. There isn’t a Catholic hospital in Utah.
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RebeccaJ
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I don’t know that it is any safer. I worked a block away for over 20 years. There were 2 malls there before this one mega mall. I can’t say a mall makes me feels safe. Not to mention, parking structures are where a lot of crime happens and the LDS church just built more of them!
But, is the LDS church going to embark on a “safe neighborhood” project and build malls next to every one of its temples?
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lax16
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Originally Posted by xixxvmcm85
*I really don’t understand all the hub bub over the LDS Church owning commercial property. What exactly is the objection here? Is it that a religious institution shouldn’t own commercial property at all? Is it that a religious institution may own commercial property but ought not invest in corporate interests? Is it that a religious institution may do all of the above but should rather use their property not set aside for ecclesiastical purposes for secular interests, such as schools, hospitals, charities, etc.? I might caution my fellow Catholics to take a minute to do some preliminary investigative work about our own glass houses before answering.
*
agweekly.com/articles/2008/01/29/news/ag_news/news55.txt
*I really don’t understand all the hub bub over the LDS Church owning commercial property. What exactly is the objection here? Is it that a religious institution shouldn’t own commercial property at all? Is it that a religious institution may own commercial property but ought not invest in corporate interests? Is it that a religious institution may do all of the above but should rather use their property not set aside for ecclesiastical purposes for secular interests, such as schools, hospitals, charities, etc.? I might caution my fellow Catholics to take a minute to do some preliminary investigative work about our own glass houses before answering.
*
Well, for starters…
agweekly.com/articles/2008/01/29/news/ag_news/news55.txt
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JHow
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Didn’t the Catholic Church historically own a lot of farms and monasteries that provided income, crops and wealth in the Middle Ages? So the lds own a farm? How is that different? I read the article it sounded to me like the locals simply didn’t like the competition.
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twopekinguys
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Maybe this will help put it into perspective for you.
Read here
Make sure you don’t miss this little tid bit. Currently, Deseret Ranches is the largest cow-calf ranch in the United States.[3]
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xixxvmcm85
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OK. So it’s the proximity of the commercial property to ecclesiastical property that’s the issue? How far away from Temple Square would City Creek Center have to be to not raise your ire?
I’m sorry. I asked a succinct question in hopes for a succinct answer, not link dropping. I’m not sure exactly what you wish for me to flesh out of that as your answer to my question. It appears to me that the collective attitude in this thread in regards to the LDS owning commercial property that has been appropriated for a shopping mall is that it’s somehow wrong for, or at least unbecoming of a church, to have done so. I want to know what specifically about it is objectionable.
So, “for starters”, is it wrong for a church to own farms? Is it wrong for a church to operate businesses (such as farms) but perfectly OK for them to own the property? Is it wrong for a church to own any sort of commercial property whatsoever? What exactly from your link do you object to, that you believe can be reasonably extrapolated to other religious bodies as a no-no?
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xixxvmcm85
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And?
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KathleenGee
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I finished reading Dr Woods’ book on how much the Catholic Church contributed to Western civilization, and especially the development of monasteries, agricultural science, and their contribution to the local surrounding communities. To call these times the Dark Ages is a misnomer. They are anything but.
What we see in the monastics and cultivation of education and science and the development of humanity is the fruit of celibacy of those who left all for the sake of the kingdom. I have met a number of brothers and women religious and so many of them are very gifted people who contribute alot to society as a whole.
Anyone recall studying Mendel in high school? We did in Catholic high school…The contributions of the monastics were tremendous. These contributions led to the development of foundations of modern life in law, education aka universities, science.
It all goes back to the Book of Wisdom and Proverbs where the world was created out of weight, measurements…that the Lord Himself complies. The Church affirms these books as foundation for use of reason with faith.
About the Church essentially having commercial properties for their own sake…I think what would come up right now is what we are seeing at the Vatican…the insiders of the Curia with alleged inside ‘deals’ vs the outsiders, the rest of the bishops in the universal church. There are calls to streamline the Curia.
What we see in the monastics and cultivation of education and science and the development of humanity is the fruit of celibacy of those who left all for the sake of the kingdom. I have met a number of brothers and women religious and so many of them are very gifted people who contribute alot to society as a whole.
Anyone recall studying Mendel in high school? We did in Catholic high school…The contributions of the monastics were tremendous. These contributions led to the development of foundations of modern life in law, education aka universities, science.
It all goes back to the Book of Wisdom and Proverbs where the world was created out of weight, measurements…that the Lord Himself complies. The Church affirms these books as foundation for use of reason with faith.
About the Church essentially having commercial properties for their own sake…I think what would come up right now is what we are seeing at the Vatican…the insiders of the Curia with alleged inside ‘deals’ vs the outsiders, the rest of the bishops in the universal church. There are calls to streamline the Curia.
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KathleenGee
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Marie – thanks for your note about a LDS hospital…
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rpcarpe
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So,
After 53 pages of discussion… the LDS church is NOT a cult.
Good.
I didn’t find where I was supposed to condemn my neighbor.
After 53 pages of discussion… the LDS church is NOT a cult.
Good.
I didn’t find where I was supposed to condemn my neighbor.
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TexanKnight
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The farms and things that monasteries did were, for the most part, done to support the monastery. This is totally different from owning a huge mall. I am certain that even you can see that…
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TexanKnight
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Actually, it is.So,
After 53 pages of discussion… the LDS church is NOT a cult.
Good.
I didn’t find where I was supposed to condemn my neighbor.
When the LDS Church tries to kidnap your kids like they did mine, you will pull your head out of the proverbial sand.
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xixxvmcm85
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Why did you respond to the part of my post directed toward lax16 but ignore the part directed to you? I’m still waiting for details from lax16 about what (s)he meant to convey by that post since (s)he didn’t actually say much.
Concerning the conversation between you and me, to recap:
I asked what is so objectionable to the LDS owning property used for business enterprise. You responded “I do not own any malls near any of my sacred buildings.” which implies that your objection is to the geographical proximity of City Creek Center to Temple Square. If this is not what you meant by “I do not own any malls near any of my sacred buildings.” then I’m afraid I’ll have to ask for clarification of your post. If it is what you meant, then please tell me what is an appropriate distance from Temple Square for a mall to be built on LDS Church-owned property.
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pablope
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Well…from the link it isaid this…It is a for profit operation and is not a normal part of the humanitarian efforts of the LDS Church. Gordon B. Hinckley, former president of the church has said, “We have felt that good farms, over a long period, represent a safe investment where the assets of the Church may be preserved and enhanced, while at the same time they are available as an agricultural resource to feed people should there come a time of need.”[6]
Will they feed people freely? My impression is they are preparing for an emergency, not for a current feeding program for the needy…but I could be wrong.
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