How is the LDS a cult?

[J_the_Centrist]

Yes, I lent him the money. No, he doesn’t keep in touch. The last time we spoke was at our father’s funeral. He was very unfriendly and took several swipes at the Catholic Church. He was never a jerk before he converted to Mormonism.

Very sad, I could never live without my Muslim, Jewish, and non-Theist relatives, I love them and even if I had a Mormon in the family I would always treat them with love and respect. Very likely, I would resist a lot of the conclusions I am coming to as regards to Mormonism for fear of offending (I know this word has become WAY to cliche lately) them. Most of my complaints about Mormonism is that they call themselves Christian, while an investigation into their beliefs only signifies the contrary. Personally, I don’t care what they believe, it’s the Christian title that bothers me. My family and I all come from a financially challenged background and we have had to struggle for much of our lives, perhaps this instilled a “united we stand, divided we fall” mentality in us, I don’t know. Most of us are educated and while most of us are Catholic we couldn’t envision a world without our loved one’s who are not, because we ALL had to struggle to get to where most of us are today and for those who are still behind there is nothing WE are not doing to help them out. I am a loyal servant of Christ and His Church, but that doesn’t mean I should alienate others, especially family. Yes, I do defend our faith in a manner which seems harsh at times, but this is only when the faith was attacked first. Pretty much like every time I go on the Huffington Post and see their anti-Christian articles, that makes me incensed, which I usually regret when the anger wears off, I am not a saint and I am a working progress. Long story short, family is family, if you can’t love your family even if they seemingly have gone “astray” than you don’t really love them at all!

BTW I have my eye’s on a pretty Buddhist girl and who knows the diversity of my family may yet continue to expand, if I’m lucky! After all she said she likes Irish guys and considering that is my background, I wonder why she would have said that?

 

[kimg901]

Like I said, I’m an ex-mormon. I could not pay tithing even if I wanted to. If the LDS church is a business, then why won’t they take my money? Or yours? Try it. If you’re not LDS, walk up and try to pay tithing.

Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean that it’s evil.

I’ve never known a mormon that paid tithing out of fear of hell. I do know members of some other sects that pay out of that motivation … But mormons generally pay because they think that they are getting blessings in this life or in the next.

Another fallacy with your term business, is, if it’s a business, then who is getting all the profit? Who is living high on the hog? Bishops? Stake Presidents? Apostles? do tell. As far as I see, it’s all being used for chapels, temples, food for the hungry, various projects … some of our LDS tithing money actually goes directly to Catholic Charities… the church doesn’t even buy first class tickets for its leaders, IIRC.

It’s not a question of me being happy or not happy with your answers. I’m just telling you what your statements mean to me. Someone calls Mormons a cult, what I hear is that that person hates Mormons. Actually some of you motivate me to go back to the LDS church. Nothing makes me want to leave the LDS church like reading a mormon blog, and nothing makes me want to be Mormon again than listening to TexanKnight talk about Mormons.

LDS tithings go to Catholic Charities? I dont know where you live but ive yet to see this happen in Utah. I dont see any of your lds higher ups living a poor and humble life, do you? As for TK, I think he knows a little about the lds so keep him out of our conversation. As for first class tickets for leaders, what are you trying to say huh?

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

And if you do, I will give you the same response the Church gave me when I came back to Catholicism, “welcome home.”

On another note, I am at work now (lunch time) and I just wanted to say that some of my co-workers, who are not even Catholic (two Baptists and a Methodist) believe that Mormonism is a cult. These feelings are not restricted to Catholics alone, the Baptist lady I work with says a lot more hateful things than anything that is being said here. All I can say is “wow.”

You’re talking about Southern Baptists, right?

Most of the hate stuff about Mormons circulating this board came from that group. Like their the misuse of the term “cult” (which obviously didn’t come from Catholicism since cult means something different in your worship). Or like false representations of LDS belief like saying that God lives on a planet called Kolob. (Kolob a STAR mentioned in LDS doctrine, is not a planet and God doesn’t live on it.)

That’s not to say that all Southern Baptists hate Mormons. Some of them recognize that we are Christians, too. Just that it’s no surprise that you find some who hate mormons. Don’t be too surprised if you find the same ones are saying similar things about Catholics behind your back.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

Oh, in case anyone is wondering yes, I am a practicing Catholic and the diversity of my family and my love interests are not indicative of anything to the contrary. I could also say that I am also young and handsome as ever, but I’m sure most of you would see the former as true and the latter as vanity.

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

LDS tithings go to Catholic Charities? I dont know where you live but ive yet to see this happen in Utah.

Every single year in General Conference since 1993, when the bugetary committee reads out where tithing monies have been spent, and Catholic Charitees have been on that list of allocations.

Do you have better authority than “living in Utah” to justify your confidence in knowing exactly how LDS tithes are dispensed with?

If you think that it’s false, then ask Catholic Charitees. If you can show it’s false, then run with it – like I said, they’ve declared it for 19 years.

I dont see any of your lds higher ups living a poor and humble life, do you?

Yes. I do. Although they aren’t “my” higher ups any more.

As for first class tickets for leaders, what are you trying to say huh?

What I am trying to say is that contrary to accusations floating on this board, LDS leaders are not living high on the hog on Mormon tithing money. If anything, they err on the side of being parsimonious. I was personally present when Howard W. Hunter was taken hostage, the security on LDS leaders is IMO pitifully inadequate. With all the hate in the world, I think they should use a bit more to protect themselves.

 

[mtolympus]

And if you do, I will give you the same response the Church gave me when I came back to Catholicism, “welcome home.”

On another note, I am at work now (lunch time) and I just wanted to say that some of my co-workers, who are not even Catholic (two Baptists and a Methodist) believe that Mormonism is a cult. These feelings are not restricted to Catholics alone, the Baptist lady I work with says a lot more hateful things than anything that is being said here. All I can say is “wow.”

One thing we all should remember is we are hearing one side of the story here. A fun and interesting way to know how the general public views people of a certain religion is by Google. Type in the following on Google and let Google fill in the last word: Why are Mormons so ____? Why are Catholics so ______? Why are Baptists so _____? Have fun!

And always remember the difinition of a Christian given by Jesus Christ:

“And the disciples were were called Christians first in Antioch.” (Acts 11:26)

“A new commandment I give un to you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” (John 13:34-35)

emphasis added

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

One thing we all should remember is we are hearing one side of the story here. A fun and interesting way to know how the general public views people of a certain religion is by Google. Type in the following on Google and let Google fill in the last word: Why are Mormons so ____? Why are Catholics so ______? Why are Baptists so _____? Have fun!

Heh, One of the first that popped up for me was “why are baptists so ANTI-CATHOLIC!”

 

[Aramis]

Oh, in case anyone is wondering yes, I am a practicing Catholic and the diversity of my family and my love interests are not indicative of anything to the contrary. I could also say that I am also young and handsome as ever, but I’m sure most of you would see the former as true and the latter as vanity.

You realize that you cannot be validly married to a buddhist without permission from your bishop, Yes?

And that such permissions are not granted lightly. It’s hard enough to get them for jews and baptized non-catholic Christians.

 

[mtolympus]

Heh, One of the first that popped up for me was “why are baptists so ANTI-CATHOLIC!”

That is different than what I got. Very interesting.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

You realize that you cannot be validly married to a buddhist without permission from your bishop, Yes?

And that such permissions are not granted lightly. It’s hard enough to get them for jews and baptized non-catholic Christians.

Actually my brother married a nice Jewish girl in a Rabbi/Priest ceremony, which was beautiful and I am not walking down the aisle yet, I am only interested in dating her. If it were to come to that, which wouldn’t be for years and considering she wants to date me, we would deal with that at that time. Besides, I have a great ally, a Franciscan friar who hasn’t talked me out pursuing the relationship and he engages in interfaith dialogue as often as I do. I don’t know where you are from, but encountering these relationships are unavoidable here in NYC. Yes, even NYC has it’s good side.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

You’re talking about Southern Baptists, right?

Most of the hate stuff about Mormons circulating this board came from that group. Like their the misuse of the term “cult” (which obviously didn’t come from Catholicism since cult means something different in your worship). Or like false representations of LDS belief like saying that God lives on a planet called Kolob. (Kolob a STAR mentioned in LDS doctrine, is not a planet and God doesn’t live on it.)

That’s not to say that all Southern Baptists hate Mormons. Some of them recognize that we are Christians, too. Just that it’s no surprise that you find some who hate mormons. Don’t be too surprised if you find the same ones are saying similar things about Catholics behind your back.

I don’t know what her exact Baptist affiliation is, I never asked her that, I just know she’s Baptist. Actually, I never discuss religion at work (unless among like minded people) and I didn’t bring the subject up. The subject was brought up when none other then Mitt Romney was mentioned and no I never discuss politics either, most of the time I only nodded my head saying “yeah” as I hate being involved in these conversations at work.

On another note, I honestly don’t know what to make of your religion and if you decide to go back I seriously wish you the best. The Mormons I have met were only missionaries, but were decent people, this religion is not common here in NYC. There is a large temple here, but it just is not as common as say us Catholics and Jews are common.

Your faith has me confused, I don’t know if you are Christian or not but I heavily lean towards not, if Mormonism is Christian it is giving Christianity a new orthodoxy that’s for sure. I am not saying this to be mean, but I only seem to get nothing but contradictory views on what Mormons believe and this is from the Mormons themselves. Now if this is based on different sects in Mormonism, than can this be clarified please. If your faith is not Christian as I am leaning towards (although not certain yet) and most posters here attest, this is our grievance. I (we) certainly don’t care what you believe, but if you call yourself Christian and are not, I and many others will be angered about this. I am sure you can understand that, like there are many different types of lawyers and if a paralegal decided to call himself/herself a lawyer that would upset lawyers, see what I mean?

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

“Your faith has me confused,”

I don’t think that we’ve conversed long enough for anyone here to make judgments about my faith. I am Christian. I look to Jesus’s atonement for salvation from death and sin. The Romans would have fed both of us to the lions for the same reason, brother. Because we believe the Gospels and particularly the message that Jesus was resurrected from the dead. That Jesus is the Word made flesh.

If you use a different definition for Christian than one who believes the report of the Resurrection and looks to Jesus to salvation from sin, then tell me how you define Christianity, and I’ll tell you if I meet the criteria.

The traditional Catholic term for my position would be to say that I’m an *heretical *Christian. I don’t accept all of the Nicene Creed. But my deviations from what most here call “orthodoxy” are considerably less significant than those of Origen, let alone the Arians, and other groups that Catholicism has always calls “heretical Christians.”

I am not saying this to be mean, but I only seem to get nothing but contradictory views on what Mormons believe and this is from the Mormons themselves.

Yeah, I know what you mean. The Mormons don’t have a very well-developed creed, only 13 articles of faith compared to your Catechism, and there are a minority of mormons that seem to hold views that I’d consider not quite Christianity either. Those are less common than say, self-described Catholics who reject what some people call “Vatican II” (if I described that incorrectly, please correct me, I don’t mean offense or to attack Catholicism). But notice that in those here who spend their whole day railing against mormons, no one cites any source more recent than the 1970s.

 

[Stephen168]

“Your faith has me confused,”

I don’t think that we’ve conversed long enough for anyone here to make judgments about my faith. I am Christian.

As long as you are not Mormon you might be Christian.

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

Exclusivity does not compute, Stephen168. Whether you are a Christian depends on your beliefs and your faith. (devils also belief, and fear, and yet I would presume that devils are not Christian, right?) In contrast, whether you are LDS depends on what covenants you have made. Or in my case, terminated.

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

BTW I have my eye’s on a pretty Buddhist girl and who knows the diversity of my family may yet continue to expand, if I’m lucky! After all she said she likes Irish guys and considering that is my background, I wonder why she would have said that?

I’ve dated a Buddhist too, and really cared for her, but for me it came down to babies. I would not want to be unevenly yoked with someone who did not believe in Christ. And what struggles we would have over whether the children should be raised Christian!

 

[TexanKnight]

You’re talking about Southern Baptists, right?

Most of the hate stuff about Mormons circulating this board came from that group. Like their the misuse of the term “cult” (which obviously didn’t come from Catholicism since cult means something different in your worship). Or like false representations of LDS belief like saying that God lives on a planet called Kolob. (Kolob a STAR mentioned in LDS doctrine, is not a planet and God doesn’t live on it.)

That’s not to say that all Southern Baptists hate Mormons. Some of them recognize that we are Christians, too. Just that it’s no surprise that you find some who hate mormons. Don’t be too surprised if you find the same ones are saying similar things about Catholics behind your back.

Mormonism is a cult because of how it treats members and because of how it waters down and changes who God is.

As far as Baptists go, my grandparents were married 69 years…he never missed Mass and she never missed Baptist Church and Sunday School. I am Catholic, my wife is Southern Baptist.

Just sayin…

 

[twopekinguys]

Like I said, I’m an ex-mormon. I could not pay tithing even if I wanted to. If the LDS church is a business, then why won’t they take my money? Or yours? Try it. If you’re not LDS, walk up and try to pay tithing.

Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean that it’s evil.

I’ve never known a mormon that paid tithing out of fear of hell. I do know members of some other sects that pay out of that motivation … But mormons generally pay because they think that they are getting blessings in this life or in the next.

Another fallacy with your term business, is, if it’s a business, then who is getting all the profit? Who is living high on the hog? Bishops? Stake Presidents? Apostles? do tell. As far as I see, it’s all being used for chapels, temples, food for the hungry, various projects … some of our LDS tithing money actually goes directly to Catholic Charities… the church doesn’t even buy first class tickets for its leaders, IIRC.

It’s not a question of me being happy or not happy with your answers. I’m just telling you what your statements mean to me. Someone calls Mormons a cult, what I hear is that that person hates Mormons. Actually some of you motivate me to go back to the LDS church. Nothing makes me want to leave the LDS church like reading a mormon blog, and nothing makes me want to be Mormon again than listening to TexanKnight talk about Mormons.

Who’s getting the profits?

How many BILLIONS of dollars did they pay to build City Creek Mall? Yes, that is with a B, and not an M.

How about the hotel the mormons own in Hawaii? That was a cheap adventure too.

Can you say “Corporation of the First President”?

There is/was a thread on here about all the little perks that mission presidents enjoy. One of them is the church paying for resents for family members, housekeepers, private school tuition, airfare home, gardeners, etc. Kind of explains where some of the profits might be going don’t you think.

 

[Miriam1947]

Yes, I lent him the money. No, he doesn’t keep in touch. The last time we spoke was at our father’s funeral. He was very unfriendly and took several swipes at the Catholic Church. He was never a jerk before he converted to Mormonism.

I’m so sorry. He really needs a lot of prayer.

As the only Catholic in my family, I have been very blessed in that they don’t ever criticize the Church and are quite supportive.

My brother even watched the last Mass by Pope Benedict XVI and the conclave. Yay!

 

[kimg901]

Do you have better authority than “living in Utah” to justify your confidence in knowing exactly how LDS tithes are dispensed with?

If you think that it’s false, then ask Catholic Charitees. If you can show it’s false, then run with it – like I said, they’ve declared it for 19 years.

I was personally present when Howard W. Hunter was taken hostage, the security on LDS leaders is IMO pitifully inadequate. With all the hate in the world, I think they should use a bit more to protect themselves.

Its not that I just live in Utah, its because of the people I have met and became friends with over the years (They work for the Diocese) and my own personal work ive done with Catholic charites. And as for the hostage taking, I dont see what that has to do with anything but I will agree that there is alot of nutjobs out there.

 

[Stephen168]

Exclusivity does not compute, Stephen168. Whether you are a Christian depends on your beliefs and your faith. (devils also belief, and fear, and yet I would presume that devils are not Christian, right?) In contrast, whether you are LDS depends on what covenants you have made. Or in my case, terminated.

A Christian has received a Christian baptism. There is no Christian baptism in Mormonism.