How is the LDS a cult?

[twopekinguys]

I have seen a couple of Mission homes. Yes, they are very nice places that are used by the current mission president and his family. They also housed the mission office staff. Also, groups of 20 or so missionaries who were arriving or leaving stayed there while they were in transition. Just sayin’ a two bedroom apt. will not serve the need of a mission headquarters.

So, who gets the better end of the deal?

The mission prez, or the mishies? I’ve read some horror stories about mishie living conditions. (I’m sure some were exagerated a bit, but not all).

Mishies can’t even call home, but the “church” flies the mission prez’s kids in for a visit.

Mishie families boot the bill for the majority of the missionaries, but you can’t say the same thing for the mission prez.

You said something earlier about the mission prez being in their 40’s, 50’s, or 60’s. If they are accepting a “calling” to do this, why aren’t they required to endure the same hardships at the missionaries?

Missionaries don’t have church bank accounts now do they?

 

[TexanKnight]

So, who gets the better end of the deal?

The mission prez, or the mishies? I’ve read some horror stories about mishie living conditions. (I’m sure some were exagerated a bit, but not all).

Mishies can’t even call home, but the “church” flies the mission prez’s kids in for a visit.

Mishie families boot the bill for the majority of the missionaries, but you can’t say the same thing for the mission prez.

You said something earlier about the mission prez being in their 40’s, 50’s, or 60’s. If they are accepting a “calling” to do this, why aren’t they required to endure the same hardships at the missionaries?

Missionaries don’t have church bank accounts now do they?

My first room had a sick over the shower head to filter out the dirt. There was no ac. In Honduras, that meant it was pretty hot. One area, our room shared an outhouse. It was a five-seater. We had pretty austere living conditions. Nothing like the pres mansion.

 

[Aramis]

Exclusivity does not compute, Stephen168. Whether you are a Christian depends on your beliefs and your faith. (devils also belief, and fear, and yet I would presume that devils are not Christian, right?) In contrast, whether you are LDS depends on what covenants you have made. Or in my case, terminated.

If one is an active member of the LDS, and accept their theology, then one is effectively an Arian Heretic. The defining element of the Arians is the belief that Jesus was not coeternal with the Father, but somehow created by the father and a separate entity.

Other elements of LDS theology dip into several other heresies, but the largest is the denial of the eternal nature of the Father… for if God once was as man is now, then God is not the prime force of the universe, but a created being.

At which point, one is not worshiping the same kind of being at all - y’all are worshiping an avatar or angel or demon, mistaken for the one True God of the Old Testament.

 

[mtolympus]

So, who gets the better end of the deal?

The mission prez, or the mishies? I’ve read some horror stories about mishie living conditions. (I’m sure some were exagerated a bit, but not all).

I don’t think missionaries who accept a call to serve a mission are looking for “the better end of the deal”. They are not pampered and most are not whinning about it. My son told me he would have never made it through medical school if he had not been toughend up on his mission.

Mishies can’t even call home, but the “church” flies the mission prez’s kids in for a visit.

They call home twice a year and are encouraged of write weekly.

Mishie families boot the bill for the majority of the missionaries, but you can’t say the same thing for the mission prez.

You said something earlier about the mission prez being in their 40’s, 50’s, or 60’s. If they are accepting a “calling” to do this, why aren’t they required to endure the same hardships at the missionaries?

Most mission presidents have served a mission when the were young. The missionaries aren’t asked to do anything the mission president hasn’t done before them. A mission president is away from his family for three years instead of two. The mission president is responsible for two or three hundred young missionaries which is a different kind of hardship.

Missionaries don’t have church bank accounts now do they?

When my son was on a mission we paid a set amount into his missionary fund each month and the church handled his expenses from his account. So, I guess you could say he had his own church bank account. When I was on a mission my parents sent me cash in the mail each month.

 

[TexanKnight]

Originally, tithing was a covenant between God and Jacob and is associated with the temple:

“And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, So that I come again to my father’s house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God: And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.” (Gen. 28:20-22)

but, it was OT law and was never used as a ticket to heaven

 

[twopekinguys]

I don’t think missionaries who accept a call to serve a mission are looking for “the better end of the deal”. They are not pampered and most are not whinning about it. My son told me he would have never made it through medical school if he had not been toughend up on his mission.

Where did he go? California?

Try getting toughened up in the military. It has worked for thousands.

They call home twice a year and are encouraged of write weekly.

Wow, twice a year!!! How generous. However, you forgot to mention, they are allowed to call home twice per year. Email, video chat, etc. is all forbidden. I find this extremely generous considering the prez gets his kids flown in, and the church pays his phone bill. But hey, he’s not getting paid is he?

Most mission presidents have served a mission when the were young. The missionaries aren’t asked to do anything the mission president hasn’t done before them. A mission president is away from his family for three years instead of two. The mission president is responsible for two or three hundred young missionaries which is a different kind of hardship.

But, the prez communicates with his family regularly. The prez has his family flown in to him. The prez is getting paid to be away with his family plus he gets those perks, WOW, life is hard.

When my son was on a mission we paid a set amount into his missionary fund each month and the church handled his expenses from his account. So, I guess you could say he had his own church bank account. When I was on a mission my parents sent me cash in the mail each month.

So, you paid into a fund where the benefit to your son was probably 50 cents on the dollar (at most), and you sent him money. All the while the church is buying Christmas and Birthday presents for his family.

 

[twopekinguys]

Originally, tithing was a covenant between God and Jacob and is associated with the temple:

An interesting use of words here. If tithing was “originally” a covenant, what is it now?

 

[RebeccaJ]

An interesting use of words here. If tithing was “originally” a covenant, what is it now?

A covenant.

We call Christ the New and Everlasting Covenant. He is God’s new covenant with us. Mormons seek to institute old covenants and call it “restoration”. They don’t see the denial of Christ in this action.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I don’t think missionaries who accept a call to serve a mission are looking for “the better end of the deal”. They are not pampered and most are not whinning about it. My son told me he would have never made it through medical school if he had not been toughend up on his mission.

I’m not sure what the point is with this since thousands of people make through medical school annually without going on an LDS mission.

They call home twice a year and are encouraged of write weekly.

Controlling interaction with family and friends is a classic example of cult and or abusive behavior.

When my son was on a mission we paid a set amount into his missionary fund each month and the church handled his expenses from his account.

When my friends daughter was on a mission in Africa last year her church paid for it, same with a co-worker whose son is currently serving.

One thing I find troubling is where the LDS church calls “senior missionaries” to serve in LDS business ventures like running one of their cattle ranches or serving a stint as a BYU professor.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

If one is an active member of the LDS, and accept their theology, then one is effectively an Arian Heretic. The defining element of the Arians is the belief that Jesus was not coeternal with the Father, but somehow created by the father and a separate entity.

Other elements of LDS theology dip into several other heresies, but the largest is the denial of the eternal nature of the Father… for if God once was as man is now, then God is not the prime force of the universe, but a created being.

At which point, one is not worshiping the same kind of being at all - y’all are worshiping an avatar or angel or demon, mistaken for the one True God of the Old Testament.

I also see similar elements of Arianism associated with them.

 

[KathleenGee]

Christ is the full revelation of Who God is. As Jesus Christ is God, He made no mistakes.

Catholicism practices Christianity as it was practiced from its beginnings, its outer form – as Fr Barrows described – ‘as a seed’. Christ said the Holy Spirit would come Who would teach them, the apostles, many things.

And the Apostles were equally capable, considering the fact they were chosen by Christ, even chosen before they were born, as they attested in the Book of Acts, as are those members of the Mormon Quorum to pick their successors.

So there was no apostasy. There was no loss of faith. In fact, as it is attested to so many times, Christians were freed not only from the bondage of sin, but living in ancient times living under inhumane conditions, yet knew such a new life in Christ, their own resurrection, that they accepted martyrdom rather than compromise their faith to the world. This great martyrdom happened in the first 300 years of Christianity.

Christ said before His crucifixion, that the Temple would be torn down in 3 days and a new one raised…

Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of Revelation. His apostolic succession carries on the Living Revelation of Jesus Christ in His Church.

When we are baptized into Jesus, we are now living members of the Lord Who reigns in the temple, the sanctuary of our inner being. It is within our inner being that our conscience speaks to us.

And it is our duty to even to ourselves to seek the truth of Who God is. Our conscience is always calling us because Christ is constantly illuminating our hearts to open ourselves more fully to Him, and to learn more about the truth of Who Christ is.

The more we know the truth of Jesus Christ, the better we can enter into the New Life of Jesus, the more free we can become.

The Church is the Tree of Life with many branches, and the fruit of the Tree is Jesus Christ. We receive Our Lord in the Eucharist, we have eternal life. As Catholics we are never forced to tithe. Old tithing was done in the past to support the ancient Jewish Temple.

We can lose the buildings of the Church, but the true faith remains in the temple of our beings.

Christ is calling us to be free, to seek the truth of Him that is not based on feelings but on objective, documented truth.

 

[twopekinguys]

What the lds church does with it’s mission presidents, and missionaries is very similar to what goes on in flds compounds.

There are the chosen ones who get one they want. Certain ones get the most wives, the best accommodations etc., while others were meant to suffer harsher conditions. Such as their wives and families being taken away and given to other men. Young boys/men cast out to fend for their own.

In the lds, those who climb the corporate/calling ladder get all the perks. All expense paid missions with extra perks, and so on and so on.

Anyone else seeing the similarities here?

 

[KathleenGee]

I would say the culture is so very different from ours.

There is constant scrutiny and we have open books. There are problems of our own, however, with embezzlement by lay people that come up every so often over the years. They are given counselling.

 

[Marie5890]

What the lds church does with it’s mission presidents, and missionaries is very similar to what goes on in flds compounds.

There are the chosen ones who get one they want. Certain ones get the most wives, the best accommodations etc., while others were meant to suffer harsher conditions. Such as their wives and families being taken away and given to other men. Young boys/men cast out to fend for their own.

In the lds, those who climb the corporate/calling ladder get all the perks. All expense paid missions with extra perks, and so on and so on.

Anyone else seeing the similarities here?

I see similarities more with corporate structures in the USA than I do with FLDS in all honesty.

FLDS is very 19th century. USA corporations 20th century.

LDS church is very 20th century.

 

[mtolympus]

An interesting use of words here. If tithing was “originally” a covenant, what is it now?

Still is. Just point out the origin.

 

[mtolympus]

Try getting toughened up in the military. It has worked for thousands.

Absolutly, I am glad you pointed that out. LDS missionaries have to dodge a few eggs, our military men are dodging real bullets an more. But then is you that have been crying about our poor, poor missionaries. I knew it was simply a class envy tactic all along.

 

[Marie5890]

Try getting toughened up in the military. It has worked for thousands.

Oh so so so unfair and unjust.

In the LDS youth group that I was apart of, several joined the military.

Mormons are well known for their patriotism. It’s one of the reason why the government recruits Mormons, esp from BYU, for various positions of service. I was interviewed by various governmental agencies for friends who were seeking governmental jobs.

Such an unjust comment in the face of reality.

Im sorry you ever made it.

 

[mtolympus]

What the lds church does with it’s mission presidents, and missionaries is very similar to what goes on in flds compounds.

There are the chosen ones who get one they want. Certain ones get the most wives, the best accommodations etc., while others were meant to suffer harsher conditions. Such as their wives and families being taken away and given to other men. Young boys/men cast out to fend for their own.

In the lds, those who climb the corporate/calling ladder get all the perks. All expense paid missions with extra perks, and so on and so on.

Anyone else seeing the similarities here?

You are starting to sound more rediculus that usual.

The LDS missionary age was recently lowered to 18 for men and 19 for women. The response from the high school senior classes has been tremendous. There is no one locked in a compound. I am actually stunned at how many are signing up to go early. No one has to fill out their mission papers or they wait another year as before. They are very enthusiastic. Very inspiring!

But then, who wouldn’t want to take that first step on the corporate ladder. Next comes the calling of Bishop, then Stake President! But then it will all be worth it when that call of Mission president comes through. Yes, at last a free plane ride! A nice place to stay for three years, and of course free Christmas gifts for the family!

 

[Marie5890]

The LDS missionary age was recently lowered to 18 for men and 19 for women. The response from the high school senior classes has been tremendous. There is no one locked in a compound.

As much as I have disagreements with Mormon theology, the above statements are true.

The Mormon reaction in lowering it’s age for missionary service from it’s youth to serve missions, and to do so freely, has been positive.

They do so freely, willingly, gladly. Esp the females who are under no obligation to serve.

To deny that is to be really naive of Mormon culture.

 

[kimg901]

As much as I have disagreements with Mormon theology, the above statements are true.

The Mormon reaction in lowering it’s age for missionary service from it’s youth to serve missions, and to do so freely, has been positive.

They do so freely, willingly, gladly. Esp the females who are under no obligation to serve.

To deny that is to be really naive of Mormon culture.

The highlighted part is funny. If they dont serve, its a slap in the face to the families. Its just like them leaving the church. Shunned, hated, loathed. Many of my current friends who were lds and didnt want to go on no mission were cast aside from their own families and their church because of it.