How long did it take you to get used to your current parish?

[pianistclare]

Actually, ProVobis, this is one of those “unwritten rules” of Evangelical Protestantism that I have often alluded to here on CAF and other venues.

You’re right, there’s no “church rule” from God for Evangelical Protestants.

But they don’t often “skip” church because others NOTICE and call them.

Yes, really, even in large and mega churches. Evangelical Protestants have their “group” within the church. They are involved with something, and that “something” has other people involved, too. It might be a musical ministry, or Sunday school class (these are not just classes, but fellowship groups that get together outside of church for dinners, picnics, etc.–not involving liquor, of course!), a committee, a Bible study (again, not just a class, but a fellowship group), etc. Or it might just be a group of people that they always sit with in church, and perhaps go out for lunch with after.

For younger couples with children, it’s the “nursery” and the younger classes like Sunday school and Children’s Church–all the parents get to know each other because these venues rely on volunteers, and all the parents take their turn, and they become friends.

Many Evangelical Protestants are involved in multiple groups. If I listed the church activities that my husband and I were involved with, it would bust CAF’s memory capacity.

When a person is missing from worship service, someone from the group(s) will call to check on them and make sure they’re alright and ask if they need anything (meal brought in, help with something, transportation, etc.).

So yes, church is “obligation” for Evangelical Protestants. It’s just not official.

How do you define “devoted?” I think I’ll start another thread with this. Do you consider people “devoted” because they attend daily Mass? Personally, I think that’s EASY if you have the time available! It’s all that “feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the prisoners, developing our talents, going out into all the world and preaching the Gospel, etc.” that demonstrates true devotion to me!

The people who attend daily Mass are in most cases, free of schedule encumbrances like work, school, and child care, and therefore have more time to devote themselves to prayer, study, ministries in and out of the parish, and fellowship with other Christians.

The daily Mass attendees who do work have jobs that allow them a more flexible schedule. I would love to attend daily Mass, but it starts at 6:30 a.m. and 8:30 a.m. I have to be at work by 7:00 a.m., so I can’t make it. We also have daily Mass at 5:30 p.m., but this is awkward–I usually have some kind of choir or other activity in the evening, and if I attend the evening Mass, I either have to eat supper at 4: 00 p.m, only a half hour after I get off work, or eat supper after, which is a big rush because most of my activities begin at 7:00 p.m. If I dropped all my activities, I would be able to attend evening Mass, but that’s one of the issues discussed in this thread–we Christians should be reaching out to others, not just attending Mass and nothing else.

I wish our early morning Mass started at 6:00 a.m.

Devoted:
Let’s not forget that devoted can mean those who pray for the rest of us daily. Certainly the cloistered and those in monasteries all over the world are devoted. Some are called to be the hands and feet of Christ, but others are called to prayer. And thank God they do.

 

[estesbob]

Until the moment I received the body and blood of Christ.

 

[SMHW]

Welcome to the world of DRE’s. It’s my belief that all DRE’s should be paid positions so that that they can assume the support of the pastor.

I agree with everything you say except that I’m not sure what it means to “assume the support of the pastor”.

I’m guessing you mean that if he’s not firing you he’s probably satisfied with what you are doing. But I also know that there are pastors who think they are paying staff to “do the right thing but make sure all of the parishioners are happy about it so they don’t complain to me.”

 

[pianistclare]

Until the moment I received the body and blood of Christ.

Beautiful. Thank you!

 

[pianistclare]

I agree with everything you say except that I’m not sure what it means to “assume the support of the pastor”.

I’m guessing you mean that if he’s not firing you he’s probably satisfied with what you are doing. But I also know that there are pastors who think they are paying staff to “do the right thing but make sure all of the parishioners are happy about it so they don’t complain to me.”

LOL. All of the above dear one.
We had a “situation” recently with a parent. My pastor said to me when I asked how he wanted to handle it:
“No, YOU get to write them a nasty letter”.
We had a good talk, and the parent still went away angry.
It’s easier to uphold the policies of the parish and Archdiocese when the pastor will back you up, and you are CERTAIN that you are doing the work correctly.
With volunteers, sometimes it does bite them in the bottom.

 

[ProVobis]

The daily Mass attendees who do work have jobs that allow them a more flexible schedule.

I used it as an example because it’s something people aren’t obligated to do. I’m sure many have more time available on Saturday or Sunday to do it.

Why, is there a fear no one will show up if you don’t make it obligatory? Seems like it doesn’t bother some of these megachurches we’re discussing. It doesn’t say much for one’s faith if he or she is being forced to participate, for the lack of a better word.

 

[ProVobis]

Even the parish priest did not speak to people after mass. Horrid experience.

In my neck of the woods, it’s difficult to walk out of the Church without having to face the priest or walk past him. Now is that much better?

 

[pianistclare]

In my neck of the woods, it’s difficult to walk out of the Church without having to face the priest or walk past him. Now is that much better?

It is better. People are often too afraid of the priest to ask questions, or to get to know him, which comes in handy when you have a problem. Equally important, he gets to know YOU.
One thing that pains my pastor is having to preside at a funeral when he knows little or nothing about the deceased. Of the course, the funeral transpires in the usual way, but he prefers to have something besides a name to reflect on. Our pastor takes pride in knowing his flock. When someone is missing from a weekend Mass, he always asks the staff if they have heard if there is something wrong, and then calls the people to say they were missed, and do they need a visit?
Many folks only say “have a nice day Father” and that’s fine.
Father’s response is almost always “have a blessed!”
Our parishioners love it, and love him. Makes it easier to accept the homilies on the hard topics, if they trust him and don’t believe him to be one who lives in an ivory tower.
We live in an age where people are pretty disconnected, despite our obsession with internet, cell phones, email, and text messages. The human face to face interaction is key if we want to connect with our fellow Catholics in a meaningful way. Even if it’s only “have a nice day Father”.
When I was a child, people were pretty much afraid of the priests. Respect had turned to fear. I’m glad that the children are not afraid anymore. Or the adults. Keep the respect, but add in the good will.

 

[SMHW]

To me, this question is kind of like asking how long it takes to get used to a home you are building on a vacant lot or how long does it take to get used to your children.

I am one of the founding members of my current 26 year old parish so involvement, adaptation, growth, and a certain amount of experimentation* was kind of a given for anyone who was willing to belong to the parish in the first place.

The first fifteen or so years was all about getting used to something new as the parish grew and we eventually built a church and other facilities.

What took some getting used to for me was having parishioners who were expecting that the parish would be what they were used to.

• By experimentation I mean that we had to figure out how to manage things when we had a borrowed church in one place, a pastor living in another place, offices and storage in a third place, and no consistent place to hold meetings, classes for children, and RCIA,

 

[ProVobis]

It is better. People are often too afraid of the priest to ask questions, or to get to know him, which comes in handy when you have a problem. Equally important, he gets to know YOU.

I do see your point but I think a lot of people prefer anonymity when talking to a priest, because usually it is done when confessing sins. I think George Carlin made a joke out of it once when he imitated a confession. “Why did you do that, George?” “Oh God, now he knows.”

OTOH, if people generally don’t do confessions at that parish, what does that say about the parish?

 

[UpUpAndAway]

Do you consider people “devoted” because they attend daily Mass? Personally, I think that’s EASY if you have the time available! It’s all that “feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the prisoners, developing our talents, going out into all the world and preaching the Gospel, etc.” that demonstrates true devotion to me!

This is the number one argument my opponents in the parish use to justify their vilification of me and our pastor. Shame on us for the emphasis we put on the liturgy when we could be using that time and money to assist those less fortunate than we are.

Frankly, I don’t see this as an either-or situation. Attending daily Mass and reaching out to others are not mutually exclusive endeavors. It’s possible to accord due diligence to both. What constitutes “due diligence” varies from person to person, and I would never dream of telling someone else they have their liturgy-to-charitable works+evangelization balance wrong. We’re not all in the same place on the road to God.

I do see your point but I think a lot of people prefer anonymity when talking to a priest, because usually it is done when confessing sins. I think George Carlin made a joke out of it once when he imitated a confession. “Why did you do that, George?” “Oh God, now he knows.”

OTOH, if people generally don’t do confessions at that parish, what does that say about the parish?

I think the first part of your post answers the question in the second part: because some people prefer anonymity in confession, they confess outside their parish. Doing so allows them to have an open, interactive relationship with their parish priest(s) while maintaining the desired anonymity when seeking absolution for their sins.

This doesn’t by any means explain all extra-parochial confessions—there’s a variety of reasons why a person would elect to do that. Whatever the case may be, I don’t view people confessing outside their parish as a negative reflection on the priest, penitent, or parish. Sometimes doing so is simply the best approach for the individual involved.

 

[pianistclare]

I do see your point but I think a lot of people prefer anonymity when talking to a priest, because usually it is done when confessing sins. I think George Carlin made a joke out of it once when he imitated a confession. “Why did you do that, George?” “Oh God, now he knows.”

OTOH, if people generally don’t do confessions at that parish, what does that say about the parish?

But don’t most people say they prefer the box? Pretty anonymous there.
I think adults should be able to hold a conversation with the priest, even if it’s only hello Father.

 

[ProVobis]

I think the first part of your post answers the question in the second part: because some people prefer anonymity in confession, they confess outside their parish. Doing so allows them to have an open, interactive relationship with their parish priest(s) while maintaining the desired anonymity when seeking absolution for their sins.

This doesn’t by any means explain all extra-parochial confessions—there’s a variety of reasons why a person would elect to do that. Whatever the case may be, I don’t view people confessing outside their parish as a negative reflection on the priest, penitent, or parish. Sometimes doing so is simply the best approach for the individual involved.

I wasn’t referring to people who go to confession at another parish but people who just don’t go to confession, period. I recently went to confession at my local parish and found myself the only one there, while there were people outside doing bake sales and other things.

I’ve known churches which store things inside the confessionals.

I can only presume these are parishes which didn’t consider confessions to be that important. I question how one could feel Catholic in these environments.

 

[UpUpAndAway]

But don’t most people say they prefer the box? Pretty anonymous there.

I have no preference, but I confess behind a screen (face-to-face is not an option where I go). Though I have a regular confessor I will confess to any priest there, and no matter who it is he always knows it’s me.

I think adults should be able to hold a conversation with the priest, even if it’s only hello Father.

Agreed. Making that connection, simple though it may be, is important for building a sense of community.

I wasn’t referring to people who go to confession at another parish but people who just don’t go to confession, period.

Oh, okay. Sorry to have misunderstood.

I recently went to confession at my local parish and found myself the only one there, while there were people outside doing bake sales and other things.

They may have already confessed or are planning to confess…outside the parish. :getholy:

Because there are always other things going on at the same time, I’m present for about half of the total scheduled confession times in my parish each week but in the past year the only time the parishioners have seen me confess was during last Advent’s Day of Reconciliation (9½ hours of Adoration and confession), and that only happened because my confessor was one of the priests who came from outside the parish to assist with confessions. Things aren’t always as they might seem.

I’ve known churches which store things inside the confessionals.

I can only presume these are parishes which didn’t consider confessions to be that important. I question how one could feel Catholic in these environments.

Ah, you’ve been to my parish, I see. We have one church with four confessionals, all of which are full of stuff. Another church has two reconciliation rooms, only one of which is functional as such. The other is storage space. The third church has no confessionals or reconciliation rooms at all.

Still, there are four scheduled confession times per week and the priests will hear confessions upon request before and/or after each Mass, so I can’t say it’s viewed as not being that important. Whether people avail themselves of it is another matter. Sometimes there’s a line, other times there isn’t a single penitent.

No one else seems to have a problem with any of this, but it can be tough for me to feel Catholic in the parish (and not just for this reason) . Rather than flee from it, I stick around, help out as I am able, and leave the rest to the Lord. Yes, I confess, get my spiritual direction, and attend the occasional Mass elsewhere. For everything else, however, my parish is where you’ll find me—probably defending myself against the people who say I care too much about the Mass and not enough about mankind, but I take the good with the bad.

Recommended reading:

• Father, Forgive Me, for I Am Frustrated: Growing in Faith When You Don’t Find It Easy Being Catholic by Fr. Mitch Pacwa, S.J.
• *God Help Me! These People are Driving Me Nuts!: Making Peace with Difficult People *by Gregory K. Popcak, Ph.D.

God bless you all

 

[Cat]

Your post makes me so incredibly sad. To Catholics, the Mass isn’t just an easy habit to fool ourselves into thinking we’ve satisfied our obligations to God. We offer real adoration of the Lord first thing in the morning, thanksgiving, pray to be contrite for our sins and petition the Lord for his help. The foundation is laid and strength given to perform the other works of charity which require self discipline and commitment. We go about our daily schedule knowing that everything we do is connected to the sacred and that there are no compartments which separate us from that which flows from the grace of that daily Sacrifice. Many daily Mass attendees I know get up an hour early every morning to attend before work and several parishes in town try to accommodate their schedules. To them it isn’t something they mechanically do - it conditions their hearts to stay on a correct path of love and service. If that isn’t devotion, I don’t know what is.

The Power of the Mass
catholicbible101.com/thepowerofthemass.htm

I agree with you that many Catholics who make Daily Mass are truly doing it out of love for Jesus and a desire to grow closer to Him.

Perhaps I am not making my writing clear.

Going to Mass is the easiest part of Christian living.

Getting up early–no big deal. People get up in the middle of the night to stand in line to buy tickets for a sports event, or to be first in the line on Black Friday, or to get to the airport on time to catch a plane for their vacation.

And for those who love Jesus already, Mass is a pleasure, not a hardship.

The hard part about Christian life is obeying Jesus joyfully in our everyday lives outside of Mass. It’s hard to be a young mom or dad at home with a few babies who don’t talk yet, and give them loving care 24/7. It’s hard to be in a marriage that is "unequally yoked. It’s hard to go to work and maintain a good Christian witness in the midst of unbelievers without becoming obnoxious towards them. It’s HARD to give money sacrificially to help meet Church needs. It’s hard to be part of a ministry team that visits the poor and sick, or a jail ministry, or a ministry to homosexuals. It’s HARD to keep working, working, working to see the end of abortion in this country, but seeing such slow, heartbreaking progress. It’s hard to grow old and feeble and have to give up living at home to be safe in a group home.

It’s just hard to stay close to Jesus in our everyday lives moment after moment, day after day, year after year, decade after decade. Mass is the “treat” in the midst of our daily lives.

I hope this makes my point easier to comprehend.

 

[Cat]

Cat - do you honestly think we can truly love our neighbor on our own merits? I believe you have it backwards. Our love for Christ *causes *us to love our neighbor.

But the love of Christ is not just a warm, fuzzy “feeling” that manifests itself by nodding at our pew mates during Mass.

The love of Christ constrains us to reach out to our Christian brothers and sisters and serve them, using whatever gifts and talents the Holy Spirit has given to us.

Christian love is practical love. It’s real actions, not just feelings.

The Bible says that the world will KNOW Christians by our LOVE for one another. This means that the world has to actually SEE that love. They don’t go to church, so they don’t “see” us love each other during Mass. They have to see us love each other OUTSIDE of Mass.

 

[JakeWI]

But the love of Christ is not just a warm, fuzzy “feeling” that manifests itself by nodding at our pew mates during Mass.

The love of Christ constrains us to reach out to our Christian brothers and sisters and serve them, using whatever gifts and talents the Holy Spirit has given to us.

Christian love is practical love. It’s real actions, not just feelings.

The Bible says that the world will KNOW Christians by our LOVE for one another. This means that the world has to actually SEE that love. They don’t go to church, so they don’t “see” us love each other during Mass. They have to see us love each other OUTSIDE of Mass.

In Mass, I get warm fuzzy feelings inside with a relatable homily (which ALWAYS seems to match what is going on in my life that particular week lately), a reverent beauty of the Mass, the many young adults bringing their very young children to Mass. I pray thanking God for these things weekly. I also get a wonderful feeling participating in our Parish’s giving tree for Christmas… to be able to provide something as simple as a warm coat and a baby doll to make a child’s Christmas… even though I have my share of medical bills and struggles. Being able to pray for the many people that need my prayers, not just in my family but the many who signed the prayer book asking for prayers. All different ways of giving, all things a good Catholic should try to do as much as they can, of whatever they are capable of or whatever they may be able to afford.

 

[LisaA]

This is the number one argument my opponents in the parish use to justify their vilification of me and our pastor. Shame on us for the emphasis we put on the liturgy when we could be using that time and money to assist those less fortunate than we are.

Frankly, I don’t see this as an either-or situation. Attending daily Mass and reaching out to others are not mutually exclusive endeavors. It’s possible to accord due diligence to both. What constitutes “due diligence” varies from person to person, and I would never dream of telling someone else they have their liturgy-to-charitable works+evangelization balance wrong. We’re not all in the same place on the road to God.

I hope not to be misreading this and want to make a point about the importance of the liturgy and being with Christ and His people. Saving souls for lack of a better term is what Christianity is all about in the final analysis. It is what we have that no other organization offers! The encounter with Christ, showing Him our love and devotion and contrition through the Mass is what gives us the desire and the strength to do all of those other things once we are sent forth.

This is also one of the major reasons that mainline Protestantism is declining. Many of these churches have forgotten what they are really all about and have become little more than weekly entertainment puncuated with “social justice” causes (albeit not necessarily action). They have forgotten their true mission and have become a poor substitute for all of the other activities easily available on Sunday…Football! Movies! Shopping! Instead of focusing on the one unique and truly significant role played in the lives of their congregation (here and hereafter) they try bettter music, cushier pews, lights camera ACTION!!!

So making the Mass and the Eucharist the source and center of our lives is essential. And back to a previous post, you get out of it what you put into it. If you’re bored, it’s you not the bad homily or the off key Cantor.

I think the first part of your post answers the question in the second part: because some people prefer anonymity in confession, they confess outside their parish. Doing so allows them to have an open, interactive relationship with their parish priest(s) while maintaining the desired anonymity when seeking absolution for their sins.

This doesn’t by any means explain all extra-parochial confessions—there’s a variety of reasons why a person would elect to do that. Whatever the case may be, I don’t view people confessing outside their parish as a negative reflection on the priest, penitent, or parish. Sometimes doing so is simply the best approach for the individual involved.

Thank you for this. Our parish has Reconciliation services with multiple priests at Lent and Advent so we do have the opportunity to encounter different priests. Some of them have been very helpful to me in helping to address my sins and avoiding the occasion of sin in the future. Others are the “Say three Hail Marys and an Our Father.” The gift of absolution is of course the essential element of Reconciliation and regardless of whether the priest gives me an appropriate penance, is available to me. But as I try to become a better Catholic and a better person, the priest who can give me a little more direction on how to achieve a closer walk with Christ is an incredible blessing.

 

[ProVobis]

Still, there are four scheduled confession times per week and the priests will hear confessions upon request before and/or after each Mass, so I can’t say it’s viewed as not being that important. Whether people avail themselves of it is another matter. Sometimes there’s a line, other times there isn’t a single penitent.

Not really IMO. Confession lines reflect the deeper spirituality of the Catholic community. In my experience I’ve seen priests usually adapting to the parish lifestyle and habits, and not the other way around. Very few will request confession but if they see a confession line, they are more likely to stand in line. If very few are known to attend Mass on Jan 1, as another example, then chances are only one or perhaps two Mass(es) will be scheduled on that day. In a parish of 7000 families, it’s pretty sad that there are so many who don’t take the Holy Day obligation seriously.

 

[Tigg]

But the love of Christ is not just a warm, fuzzy “feeling” that manifests itself by nodding at our pew mates during Mass.

The love of Christ constrains us to reach out to our Christian brothers and sisters and serve them, using whatever gifts and talents the Holy Spirit has given to us.

Christian love is practical love. It’s real actions, not just feelings.

The Bible says that the world will KNOW Christians by our LOVE for one another. This means that the world has to actually SEE that love. They don’t go to church, so they don’t “see” us love each other during Mass. They have to see us love each other OUTSIDE of Mass.

Thank you for explaining. I think we are almost on the same page. I certainly do not believe Christian love of neighbor is an emotion and neither is that solid spirituality. It is not based upon whim or the sentiment of the moment. * It is a matter of the will. *

People would be more interested and excited about the Mass if they were more interested and excited about their brothers and sisters in Christ.

We must always give the Lord His due first (a part of the 1st commandment). In praise and adoration and in prayer (the Mass has been said to be the greatest prayer.) From what is inside on an interior level based upon our positive response to Christ - that is what pours forth and motivates us to do the practical works of charity; the “practical” is the fruit that comes from “love” of God.

I cannot quite agree that Mass is the “treat” in the midst of our daily lives. Although I am unable to attend every day, I find the Mass an integral part of my faith life. Without sacramental and actual grace, we would not be so inclined to help our neighbor. Any goodwill or witness or work of charity does not come from us - it is truly an inspiration given by the Spirit and we are able to complete the task, not on our own initiative or by any “goodness” we think comes from ourselves, but only through obedience and with the help of God.
.