How long should one pray to know that Mormonism is true?

[hosemonkey]

Hi ParkerD,

I read the BOM through for the first time in seminary - I was a senior in high school. The teacher challenged us to read it if we hadn’t and to pray for a witness if we hadn’t received one. I read the book many times thereafter, but a request for a witness was always a regular part of my prayers. I also read the New Testament through during the same year. The OT was always a challenge and I never read it through for the first time until I was on my mission. While a Mormon, I read the Book of Mormon through dozens of times, the NT 4-5, and the OT just once. I’ve now read the NT completely dozens of times, the OT less so, though I have read individual sections through many times (Pentateuch, Psalms, the Prophets). Does that answer your question?

Welcome to the True Church. I have to ask the question, to you (whose eyes have been opened) and to all mormons. How can anyone receive a testimony of truth from a document that is so patently false? No evidence exists for the truth of the BOM, save for the obvious plagarisms from the NT. It would be like seeking a testimony from the Chronicles of Narnia.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I know people in the Mormon Church who have prayed for years without getting a positive answer that Mormonism is true. How long should a person pray to find out whether or not Mormonism is true? Should a person pray and ask if Mormonism is not true?

The Mormon concept of “praying” then “seeing if there’s a feeling inside you” has always bothered me. It resembles the extreme Charismatic view of “Just throw out your Bible, lexicon, and church history and experience it!”

A passage relating to this idea:

The heart is deceitful above all things,And desperately wicked; Who can know it? [Jeremiah 17:9]

 

[Finrock]

Good evening Byzantine_Wolf! I hope you are doing well.

I have broken this response up in to two parts because of lenght…

The Mormon concept of “praying” then “seeing if there’s a feeling inside you” has always bothered me. It resembles the extreme Charismatic view of "Just throw out your Bible, lexicon, and church history and experience it!

What you’ve posted doesn’t represent the “Mormon concept” of praying. This overly simplistic view is often asserted as being what a member of the LDS church means when they ask someone to pray or when they are speaking about their own experiences. I think it is asserted most often because it is just what someone has heard about the Mormons and they don’t really know any better or sometimes it is asserted because it is very easy to argue against this simplistic and naive notion of prayer. Critics find great use from dumbing down, in essence, what prayer really means to a member of the LDS church, and what exactly it entails because it makes it that much easier for them to make the LDS religion look ridiculous to their audience. The reality is much different, and if you’ll allow me, I will try to explain the best that I can with words something that is essentially experienced by the heart (not the physical organ).

First, I think it is important to recognize that God is all powerful. Being all powerful and having absolute agency, God is capable of answering a person’s prayers in anyway He wishes. I point this out because I don’t want there to be a misunderstanding that I am somehow limiting what God can and cannot do. However, what I will try to provide are patterns that we find in scripture that show us how God has historically operated or interacted with mankind. The scriptures provide examples of righteous living that we can emulate and apply in our daily lives. Because I am providing an LDS perspective, I will utilize all LDS scripture in making my point.

I have a book here by Fr. Seraphim Rose. Perhaps you have heard of him, he being an Orthodox. The book is titled, “God’s Revelation to the Human Heart.” I want to quote from him because his points reflect Mormon doctrine.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[Finrock]

continued…

To illustrate a point about revelation, Fr. Rose speaks about the two disciples in Luke 24 that were visited by Jesus while on the road to Emmaus, yet they did not immediately recognize him. After having dined with Jesus, the two disciples finally realize who Jesus was. Fr. Rose remarks:

"[The disciples] began to question themselves and remembered that, all the time He had been with them walking on the road, they had had a burning in their hearts, even though they had not recognized Him. What made them recognize Christ in the end was this ‘burning heart,’ and not just the fact that He vanished out of their sight, because magicians can do that also. Therefore, it is not first of all miracles which reveal God to men, but something about God that is revealed to a heart this is ready for it. This is what is meant by a 'burning heart…’"

I open with this quote because it reflects a striking similarity to what is taught by the LDS church, and it is often this “burning in the bosom/heart” that critics like to make fun of. However, as you can see, there is something profound in this description of a “burning heart”. Fr. Rose taught that “…truth cannot be found by the unaided powers of man.” But, instead, there is “something in a human being that ‘opens up’ if his heart is ready” so that he is able to understand and comprehend truth. Indeed, Fr. Rose calls the organ that is necessary in order to receive revelation is a “loving heart.”

If you look in to the scriptures, including the Book of Mormon, the heart is used often to describe this central core of who or what a person is. It is this place within us that is truly us and what we truly are. We read in scripture of hard hearts, of changed hearts, of loving hearts, of selfless hearts. Obviously these aren’t descriptions of our physical organ that pumps blood. But, one of the greatest events that a person can experience is this “might change of heart” (Alma 5:14) which causes a person to completely forsake that which is evil and come unto Christ will full purpose, hope, and faith. So, all of us have this organ, this area within us that when we allow it, we can be influenced and changed by the Holy Spirit, because it is the Spirit that communicates to our hearts.

This brings us to a point where we can ask the question: How can the Spirit change our hearts? What must we do in order for this to happen? Well, first and foremost, we must recognize that it is God that changes our hearts (Alma 5:7). But, God seldom, if ever, does God enter uninvited. He requires something from us. We must allow our hearts to be opened up to His influence. We do this by first, having faith in Jesus Christ. We receive this gift of faith when we hear or read the inspired words of Christ. Fr. Rose put it this way:

"[The] heart is moved and changed by the presence of God, or by someone who is filled with His Spirit, or by just hearing the truth about Him preached."

So, let us consider the words found in the last chapter of the Book of Mormon:

" 3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things" (Moroni 10).

What is this really asking us to do. Notice that the heart is involved in this process. OK, so, we are exhorted to remember God. This presupposes a faith in God already. It also is asking us to ponder the things that God has done for mankind and to ponder His words. Pondering God’s word, just as Fr. Rose said, is the catalyst to us being moved by the Spirit. As we sincerely and seriously consider the things we have read, we are allowing our hearts to be opened. This is what a sincere heart is. A sincere heart is a heart that is “…in the religious search not for the sake of religious experiences, which can deceive, but for the sake of truth” (Fr. Rose). And those who have sincere hearts, will pray with “real intent”, which means they aren’t just praying for a sign, but rather their sole desire is to know what is true so that they can act on the truth and commit their life to it. To have real intent, requires faith, and particularly faith in Jesus Christ.

The promise, of course, is that the Holy Spirit will manifest the truth to us. And, as we can see from the scriptures Fr. Rose provided and in other scriptures in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, the Spirit causes our “hearts to burn.” We know the Spirit of God by recognizing what He leads us to do. The Spirit always “…inviteth and enticeth to do good continually and to love God…and to believe in Christ” (Moroni 7:13,16). The influence of the Spirit will always be an agent of change. It isn’t just a “neat” sensation, but the Spirit will inspire us and motivate us to leave behind all that is wicked and evil and to embrace all that is good and rigtheous. When a person is truly feeling this “burning in their bosom”, then that is when all of these things will be manifest.

This is what it means, to a Mormon, to receive an answer to prayer. It isn’t just about praying and then waiting for a sensation.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[Catholic20064]

continued…

To illustrate a point about revelation, Fr. Rose speaks about the two disciples in Luke 24 that were visited by Jesus while on the road to Emmaus, yet they did not immediately recognize him. After having dined with Jesus, the two disciples finally realize who Jesus was. Fr. Rose remarks:

*"[The disciples] began to question themselves and remembered that, all the time He had been with them walking on the road, they had had a burning in *

The burning heart is not something these disciples sought. It just happened – they weren’t asking to receive a sign. I think there is a big difference in that and the Mormon missionary admonition to pray for a testimony of the Book of Mormon.

 

[Finrock]

Good morning Catholic20064. I hope you day has started out super!

The burning heart is not something these disciples sought. It just happened – they weren’t asking to receive a sign. I think there is a big difference in that and the Mormon missionary admonition to pray for a testimony of the Book of Mormon.

Thank you for your significant observation. That is exactly right and really the point of my post. Please consider again what I wrote later in my post:

“A sincere heart is a heart that is “…in the religious search not for the sake of religious experiences, which can deceive, but for the sake of truth” (Fr. Rose). And those who have sincere hearts, will pray with “real intent”, which means they aren’t just praying for a sign, but rather their sole desire is to know what is true so that they can act on the truth and commit their life to it. To have real intent, requires faith, and particularly faith in Jesus Christ.”

Man cannot know divine truth without help. As the Spirit softens our hearts, we feel that there is something good here, something we desire. Moroni’s promise is that once we’ve felt of God’s goodness and heard His word, we can get a confirming answer so that our knowledge can be certain. But, the prerequisite is that we already have faith, we already believe in a manner that what we’ve been feeling is true. That is why Moroni says for us to ask if it is “not true.” So, we aren’t praying for an experience or some sign, but rather we are exercising our faith to confirm our thoughts and desires with God.

Perhaps because people think they are praying for faith and a sign is the reason why they don’t get answers to their prayers? I think some people have misunderstood what Moroni’s promise is all about. It isn’t about praying for some burning sensation or about getting some sign before you will believe. Rather it is an exercise of an already existing faith (even if the faith is only miniscule in size) confirming thoughts and feelings you already have and a belief that you should already feel. Also, it is important to remember that unlike the scientific method, we cannot repeatedly replicate spritual experiences on demand. That is really the trial of our faith is that we can’t always get exactly what we want, when we want it. Seeking with a sincere heart and praying with real intent is ultimately an act of contrition and humility where you have consigned yourself to doing God’s will no matter what and you are manifesting that faith by your actions and your words. Then, unbidding, when God so desires, He will answer your prayers.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[NewSeeker]

Moroni’s promise is that once we’ve felt of God’s goodness and heard His word, we can get a confirming answer so that our knowledge can be certain. But, the prerequisite is that we already have faith, we already believe in a manner that what we’ve been feeling is true.

1. Had faith (strong): check
2. Believed in a manner that what I was feeling was true: check
3. Prayed sincerely, with real intent, for a confirming answer about those feelings: check
4. Received a confirming answer so that my knowledge could be certain: NOPE

In my case, the prerequisites were met. The desired outcome did not occur. Moroni’s promise proved empty.

NewSeeker

 

[GodIsGracious]

1. Had faith (strong): check
2. Believed in a manner that what I was feeling was true: check
3. Prayed sincerely, with real intent, for a confirming answer about those feelings: check
4. Received a confirming answer so that my knowledge could be certain: NOPE

In my case, the prerequisites were met. The desired outcome did not occur. Moroni’s promise proved empty.

NewSeeker

NewSeeker, while I’m sure this will be denied by Finrock, essentially you’ve just been told that you did not have enough faith. Apparently, there are some religions that say that if you don’t get any answer that you didn’t have enough faith. Or that you weren’t sincere, putting the “blame” on you. It’s very much “blaming the victim” rather than acknowledging that perhaps you were led elsewhere. I see you as having had an incredibly strong faith. So very strong, that you were led to the Truth that is found within the Catholic church.

 

[NewSeeker]

It isn’t about praying for some burning sensation or about getting some sign before you will believe. Rather it is an exercise of an already existing faith (even if the faith is only miniscule in size) confirming thoughts and feelings you already have and a belief that you should already feel.

That describes me perfectly. I exercised such faith, believed so strongly, that I went on a mission, voluntarily extended it to the maximum time allowable, magnified my post-mission callings to the best of my ability, paid tithes, and got married in the temple. I never once prayed for “some burning sensation” or a sign before I would believe. I was already a devout believer and I asked God whether “these things were not true,” exactly as Moroni taught.

It didn’t work. All I got for my effort was a lot of angst and, eventually, finger-pointing as nonplussed church members tried to explain away my experience.

NewSeeker

 

[NewSeeker]

NewSeeker, while I’m sure this will be denied by Finrock, essentially you’ve just been told that you did not have enough faith.

Yes, I know. The LDS mantra is that those who follow the formula laid out by Moroni sincerely and honestly will receive their answer. If they don’t receive it then, ipso facto, that proves they weren’t sincere and/or lacked faith. Or, God chose not to answer for his own reasons and will answer in his own due time. Either way, there’s always an out that allows Mormons to continue to believe that Moroni was real and that his promise is valid.

NewSeeker

So, how hot is Dallas? We were 105 yesterday here in Austin.

 

[NewSeeker]

Welcome to the True Church.

Thank you!

I have to ask the question, to you (whose eyes have been opened) and to all mormons. How can anyone receive a testimony of truth from a document that is so patently false? No evidence exists for the truth of the BOM, save for the obvious plagarisms from the NT. It would be like seeking a testimony from the Chronicles of Narnia.

Well, that’s the obvious conclusion from my experience isn’t it, and I agree with you that upon examining the evidence there’s no need to even pray to ask whether it’s true since there’s no confirming evidence that the BOM is a true historical document. But I didn’t get to a point where I could admit that until after I gave up praying for a testimony that never arrived. Ironically, I do find spiritual truth in the Chronicles of Narnia. I love C.S. Lewis. I can glean truths about Christ from his fiction precisely because I know that it’s fiction and was never advertised to be anything but fiction. That allows me to read Lewis and appreciate his efforts to communicate his Christian faith through that medium. I can’t do that with the BOM, precisely because it is fiction advertised as true history. Good point.

NewSeeker

 

[Finrock]

Good afternoon GodIsGracious! It is a pleasure to see you again.

NewSeeker, while I’m sure this will be denied by Finrock, essentially you’ve just been told that you did not have enough faith. Apparently, there are some religions that say that if you don’t get any answer that you didn’t have enough faith. Or that you weren’t sincere, putting the “blame” on you. It’s very much “blaming the victim” rather than acknowledging that perhaps you were led elsewhere. I see you as having had an incredibly strong faith. So very strong, that you were led to the Truth that is found within the Catholic church.

I don’t understand how you’ve twisted my post to mean that I’m somehow telling NewSeeker that he doesn’t have enough faith. Please, reread my post and understand that I am describing a princple. I never was or am I interested in denying or debating NewSeeker’s experience. I can’t speak for NewSeeker, I can only speak for my own experiences and those principles that I understand. What I described is what I’ve experienced. That is the extent of the meaning of my post.

The principles in my post are relevant to you as well, despite your feelings about the Book of Mormon. The principles can be applied to any situation where we are seeking wisdom and guidance from Heavenly Father. Fr. Rose provides, I think, I clear understanding of the role of our hearts play in receiving and understanding revelation.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[NewSeeker]

Finrock,

To someone like me, the bare mention of Moroni 10:3-5 is an assertion that I lacked faith. You may not have intended that, but that’s what the passage will always mean to me in discussions such as this. Moroni’s words don’t allow for any middle ground.

NewSeeker

 

[Finrock]

Good afternoon NewSeeker. It is a pleasure to meet you!

Finrock,

To someone like me, the bare mention of Moroni 10:3-5 is an assertion that I lacked faith. You may not have intended that, but that’s what the passage will always mean to me in discussions such as this. Moroni’s words don’t allow for any middle ground.

NewSeeker

It may be true that this is how you feel but you should understand that your position that “the bare mention of Moroni 10:3-5 is an assertion that you lacked faith”, is an irrational position. It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever to assume that if someone quotes Moroni 10:3-5 that they are saying that NewSeeker lacked faith.

I would suggest that you let go of the irrational assumption that someone quoting Moroni 10:3-5 equates to someone questioning your faith. If nothing else, understand that in any future posts of mine that you may read, if I quote Moroni 10:3-5, I am most likely not even thinking about you and I am definitely not questioning your faith.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[GodIsGracious]

Good afternoon NewSeeker. It is a pleasure to meet you!

It may be true that this is how you feel but you should understand that your position that “the bare mention of Moroni 10:3-5 is an assertion that you lacked faith”, is an irrational position. It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever to assume that if someone quotes Moroni 10:3-5 that they are saying that NewSeeker lacked faith.

I would suggest that you let go of the irrational assumption that someone quoting Moroni 10:3-5 equates to someone questioning your faith. If nothing else, understand that in any future posts of mine that you may read, if I quote Moroni 10:3-5, I am most likely not even thinking about you and I am definitely not questioning your faith.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

Okay, it doesn’t say that Newseeker specifically didn’t have faith, but it says that people in NewSeeker’s position didn’t have faith. And THAT is what NewSeeker relates to.

And as for how I made the association of you saying he didn’t have enough faith, I read your words, that’s how. I don’t care how long your long winded explanations are, or how flowery the language. It boils down to you told NewSeeker they did not have enough faith.

Also, I did not say you were debating NewSeeker’s experience. Because you can’t.

Clearly, after having read yours and other mormons on this site’s posts, your interpretation of even the most basic and simplest of statements is skewed - or at least, clearly different than the rest of us.

 

[NewSeeker]

Hi Finrock,

I hear you, but the passage itself makes a promise that is meaningless unless the Answer follows a prayer of faith 100% of the time. It’s not that you said I lacked faith (you didn’t). But that’s the message that is communicated by that verse, regardless of your motive for presenting it. It is Joseph Smith (through Moroni’s words) who says I lacked faith. By presenting the verse, you’re opening the door for that accusation to be made and are thus guilty by association. But I do thank you for your civility and the kindness of your tone. So many Mormons in the past have just come out and said “you lacked faith,” and then they trotted out Moroni’s promise as evidence. You’re weren’t that direct. But regardless, it is true that the discussion of Moroni’s promise even in general terms does make the accusation of faithlessness to those who put that promise to the test and didn’t get the expected answer. Either directly or indirectly, the accusation is still made through the use of that particular passage.

NewSeeker

 

[ParkerD]

Gracious and New Seeker,
I have been left wondering from your comments lately here, whether you feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in your life right now, and in what way you do if the answer is yes? I am not questioning whether you do, but just wondering how you do feel that presence if you feel it.

Is that a fair question? (Sorry if it’s not.)

 

[GodIsGracious]

Yes, I know. The LDS mantra is that those who follow the formula laid out by Moroni sincerely and honestly will receive their answer. If they don’t receive it then, ipso facto, that proves they weren’t sincere and/or lacked faith. Or, God chose not to answer for his own reasons and will answer in his own due time. Either way, there’s always an out that allows Mormons to continue to believe that Moroni was real and that his promise is valid.

NewSeeker

So, how hot is Dallas? We were 105 yesterday here in Austin.

At least with Catholic prayer we’re honest in saying that if you don’t receive an answer, it’s not that you didn’t have faith, it’s that the answer is most likely, “No.” We assume the best, you had faith! And how do we know this? By the mere fact that you prayed.

As far as Dallas is concerned… we’re having a cold front here. It’s 95 degrees! brr! Where’s my sweater??? :whacky: We had quite a bit of rain earlier this year so the summer seems to be a bit cooler than what we’re used to. Although, we still have not yet hit August and September yet! Being in Austin… I feel for you! I used to live in San Antonio so I know the humidity up there. When I moved here people would tell me, “At least it’s a dry heat.” Dry compared to what? A wet towel? hehehe… but hey, at least we’re not in Houston!

 

[NewSeeker]

Gracious and New Seeker,
I have been left wondering from your comments lately here, whether you feel the presence of the Holy Spirit in your life right now, and in what way you do if the answer is yes? I am not questioning whether you do, but just wondering how you do feel that presence if you feel it.

Is that a fair question? (Sorry if it’s not.)

Hello again ParkerD,

Do I have feelings of peace or transcendence in my life right now? Yes. Have I felt them in the past? Yes. Do I know unequivocally and without doubt that those feelings are caused by the Holy Spirit? No. I have felt such feelings in the wardhouse, listening to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing, listening to Buddhist monks chant, sitting on a hilltop watching the sun rise, saying prayers communally during Mass and especially after receiving the Holy Eucharist, even at rock shows when the music is just ON, the groove sets in and the audience and the band almost become one organism, making the music together. Was that the Spirit causing the feelings of transcendence in all or only some of those instances? Who knows, and, given the vast range of possible ways that people say they have “felt the Spirit” around the world across time, there’s not a person on the planet who will have the same answer about which experiences of transcendence are truly from the Holy Spirit and which are not. To me, reliance on such feelings can never be a valid way to get at truth. My experience searching for a testimony of the Book of Mormon just strengthened that view anyway, by completely burning out of me any hope that feelings can ever be relied upon. I’ve never witnessed the Spirit causing any of the feelings I’ve felt, so I have no way of knowing whether the Spirit was really the source, and I don’t believe anyone anywhere really knows, though people love to think that their peaceful, transcendent feelings were caused by God. If I choose to believe that the Spirit caused any one of those feelings, that would just be an assumption on my part, an act of faith. But that’s not knowledge. So, in answer to your question, I have no idea whether I’ve ever felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in my life. Maybe I did, maybe I didn’t. I won’t know for sure, and neither will anyone else, until we actually observe God or the Spirit putting the feelings inside of us. But since God is not present to our senses, how can this happen? It can’t. So, what do I go by as my guide for a spiritual life? How did I end up a Catholic? Since I don’t trust feelings, that just leaves me my brain, the use of reason, and a review of the evidence (philosophical and historical). That’s why I believe in God and why I am a Catholic. That’s not to say that I can’t point to events in my life that could very well be evidence of the hand of God. But to be sure, I don’t just go by the feelings I experience, which could easily be self-manufactured. Instead, I see critical life events as additional evidence that provides support to the results of my studies of philosophy, theology, and history. Since I believe Catholicism on those grounds, it’s easy for me to look back and see how certain events occurred that led me inexorably to my new life as a Catholic. I need all of this evidence to believe that God has had his hand in my life. Good feelings or “promptings of the Spirit”, which is just another way to say “I felt something”, aren’t sufficient. If that was all I needed to go by, then I would be a Mormon-Catholic-Buddhist-Naturalist-Indie Rock Fan, since those are the places where my good feelings lead me.

God is Gracious - it’s only 95 degrees in Dallas!??!!? Turn up the thermostat fast before frostbite sets in! Thanks for pointing out that the very act of prayer is proof of a person’s faith. That is so true.

 

[Finrock]

Hello again GodIsGracious!

Okay, it doesn’t say that Newseeker specifically didn’t have faith, but it says that people in NewSeeker’s position didn’t have faith. And THAT is what NewSeeker relates to.

Neither Moroni 10:3-5 or what I posted suggests or says any of that. Scriptures teach principles and they make assertions. Moroni 10:3-5 isn’t just applicable to the Book of Mormon. It is a principle of faith. It is independent of NewSeekers or anyones personal experience. It is a principle in the same vein as James 1:5-6 which reads:

"*5 If any of you lack bwisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed*."

Either the statements of James are true or they are false. Now, there is a promise entailed in the words of James. He said: If you lack wisdom, ask God. God will answer you, if you ask in faith unwavering. So, take the promise given in James 1:5-6 and apply it to any situation where one may lack wisdom (forget about the Book of Mormon for now as the principle is relevant in any situation where we seek answers from God). What happens when a person asks God and they receive no answer? Does this necessarily imply that the person lacks faith? No, it doesn’t. It certainly is a possibility, but a lack of faith isn’t the only possibility. We are in no position to wonder why God didn’t answer a person’s prayers. But, that doesn’t preclude us from speaking about principles found in scripture.

And as for how I made the association of you saying he didn’t have enough faith, I read your words, that’s how. I don’t care how long your long winded explanations are, or how flowery the language. It boils down to you told NewSeeker they did not have enough faith.

Thank you for complementing my language. I didn’t realize it was flowery.

However, my posts do not clearly boil down to stating that NewSeeker (or anyone) does not have enough faith. Your assertion is simply nonsensical. The logic doesn’t support it. Further, there was no need for you to assume what I was saying, as I clearly stated what my purpose was. More than anything, my posts are presenting the Mormon understanding of what it means to pray and how God answers prayers. Mine have been informational posts, describing my Mormon faith and experiences, without any accusations made or implied. This whole assertion of yours is just silly.

Instead of trying to find something sinister and negative in my words, this could be a learning opportunity for you. May I suggest that instead of trying to second guess my motives and meaning, just accept what I’m presenting and if you like, join the conversation. The topic is very interesting and I think it could be a fruitful discussion to understanding better how God communicates to us and our role in this interactive relationship with God. If nothing else, it can be an oppportunity for you to learn a deeper understanding of how Mormons understand the topics of gaining a testiomny, prayer, and our role in receiving revelation. I would like to know your perspective too. I’ve learned much from people of other faiths, just as I have been able to gain a new perspective on my own faith from the words of Fr. Rose, whose little book I’ve quoted.

So, to help facilitate a more productive conversation, let me ask: What have your experiences been when you’ve prayed to God to know or to understand something? Also, have you ever experienced this “change of heart”? If so, what has it been like for you? How have you experienced this “burning in your heart” that is spoken of in Luke and later in Acts?

Clearly, after having read yours and other mormons on this site’s posts, your interpretation of even the most basic and simplest of statements is skewed - or at least, clearly different than the rest of us.

I don’t know what you are referring to here and neither do I understand it’s relevancy to the topic at hand. I’ll be happy to listen if you would like to expand on this thought further.

Kind Regards,
Finrock