How long will it take for non-Catholics to finally accept Catholicism?

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cheese_sdc said:
Which Truth would you like to use for your bashing? The Taoist’s Truth? What about a Baptist’s? How about a Hindu’s? What about Jimmy Swaggert’s Truth? Jack Chick’s? Pope Pius X’s? A Jew’s? How about a Communist’s?
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It is the new agers who talk about different truths!

We Christians have only one truth - that is God’s truth which is guarded by the Magisterium.

Communist? Been there, done that! No good!

Do not compromise truth -* ever*

I hope you find consolation and peace.

Cheers
🙂
 
cheese_sdc said:
There is only one Truth (I use Truth and Divinity interchangeably), but we all have different understandings of it.
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I like your Message at the bottom. Don’t you like mine?

Seriously, keep coming to these forums - they are instructive and such fun. :extrahappy: Of course we musn’t get mad:mad:

Never be afraid to admit when you are wrong.:tsktsk: :bowdown2:

Cheers:) :tiphat:
 
Cinette said:
You make a good point but consider this. Converting from Catholicism to a Protestant denomination is a bit like converting from Christianity to Judaism. With the former you turn your back on the Eucharist (as we accept it) and the latter you turn your back on Christ.

Whooooa! What have I said! There is going to be an explosion!!!
I love you!🙂 I love you:) I love you:)

Sola here it is 9am what is your time??
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Only difference being some of us still have the Eucharist 😛
 
TriuneUnity said:
Only difference being some of us still have the Eucharist 😛
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Jesus gave the Eucharist to His Church, that is true. But when the denominations formed they changed things.

But this is a BIG subject and I really do not want to get into an argument. It is not worth it.

We can just love one another.🙂 :love:
 
Cinette said:
Jesus gave the Eucharist to His Church, that is true. But when the denominations formed they changed things.

But this is a BIG subject and I really do not want to get into an argument. It is not worth it.

We can just love one another.🙂 :love:
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Changed things that Christ Himself never specified were necessary for the Eucharistic promise 😛
 
Cinette said:
You make a good point but consider this. Converting from Catholicism to a Protestant denomination is a bit like converting from Christianity to Judaism. With the former you turn your back on the Eucharist (as we accept it) and the latter you turn your back on Christ.

Whooooa! What have I said! There is going to be an explosion!!!
I love you!🙂 I love you:) I love you:)

Sola here it is 9am what is your time??
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Hey Cinette:

I’ve always thought it the other way around. It’s the RCC who is stooped in legalism (from my perspective anyway)?

With regard to the Eucharist – Jesus broke a loaf of bread and passed pieces of it around to His Apostles. You think He actually meant to create a dogmatic regime when He did that?

I know this is serious business to the Church at Rome – however, to imagine the Last Supper was intended to morph into something like transubstantiation – really does challenge my sensibilities.

To imagine this ritual is necessary for salvation from the few words of Jesus is an idea that developed after the Apostles were dead. The earliest Christians used to have love feasts (or agape feasts) as a last supper remembrance. While this feast was eventually separated from the Eucharist (as soon as a few decades after the death of the Apostles) the RCC view still developed over time. How could such elaborate dogma not develop over time?

I used to attend Methodist church & they believed in a real presence – and the Pastor did just what Jesus did, takes a loaf of bread, breaks it, gives thanks and praise, commemorates our Lord with His words at the Last Supper, and we each partake of the bread. I still hold to a real presence, but I’m not about to try and imagine how God does this? To imagine medieval man could know how God intervenes in the molecular structure of things is faulty in my view.

It’s like when Jesus raised Lazarus after his body was dead for several days. How did He do that – I don’t know; I just know He did it. That’s faith – belief in the unseen – the intangible and frankly the unimaginable.

Anyway Cinette I know this is an important part of Catholic life & I really don’t want to get into a long discussion on this point – because there is no resolution to this accept to agree to disagree? However, I like the simple view – when two or three come together in the name of Jesus and God – He is there with us. When we commemorate Jesus in the way He wants us to, through partaking of the bread, it really is His body and blood we partake in. As for elaborate explanations – I’m good to go with just simple faith.

I know the Catholic ceremony of the Eucharist has connections to Old Testament ritual (in the way they sanctify the Eucharist in a secret chamber and all that stuff). I don’t know much more about it, so perhaps it is a better practice?

I just learned that the Presbyterian Church (USA) signed an agreement with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, rejecting Calvin’s view (of pneumatic presence) and affirming “real” presence, which I’m happy with.
 
AlexiaMusing said:
What I cannot get beyond is why a few Roman Catholics continue to start threads trying to bait other Christians like this? Is there some point? It’s like children screaming “I am the best, I am the best.” Live it and perhaps you might convince someone. Saying so isn’t going to do the trick. And by the way, all Christians are part of the universal (catholic church).
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I suggest you read 2 Peter Chapter 2. It would seem to disagree with your assesment of Christianity as accepting everything and everyone who calls himself Christian or that calls itself Christianity…
 
sola_scriptura said:
Hey Cinette:

I’ve always thought it the other way around. It’s the RCC who is stooped in legalism (from my perspective anyway)?

With regard to the Eucharist – Jesus broke a loaf of bread and passed pieces of it around to His Apostles. You think He actually meant to create a dogmatic regime when He did that?

I know this is serious business to the Church at Rome – however, to imagine the Last Supper was intended to morph into something like transubstantiation – really does challenge my sensibilities.

To imagine this ritual is necessary for salvation from the few words of Jesus is an idea that developed after the Apostles were dead. The earliest Christians used to have love feasts (or agape feasts) as a last supper remembrance. While this feast was eventually separated from the Eucharist (as soon as a few decades after the death of the Apostles) the RCC view still developed over time. How could such elaborate dogma not develop over time?

I used to attend Methodist church & they believed in a real presence – and the Pastor did just what Jesus did, takes a loaf of bread, breaks it, gives thanks and praise, commemorates our Lord with His words at the Last Supper, and we each partake of the bread. I still hold to a real presence, but I’m not about to try and imagine how God does this? To imagine medieval man could know how God intervenes in the molecular structure of things is faulty in my view.

It’s like when Jesus raised Lazarus after his body was dead for several days. How did He do that – I don’t know; I just know He did it. That’s faith – belief in the unseen – the intangible and frankly the unimaginable.

Anyway Cinette I know this is an important part of Catholic life & I really don’t want to get into a long discussion on this point – because there is no resolution to this accept to agree to disagree? However, I like the simple view – when two or three come together in the name of Jesus and God – He is there with us. When we commemorate Jesus in the way He wants us to, through partaking of the bread, it really is His body and blood we partake in. As for elaborate explanations – I’m good to go with just simple faith.

I know the Catholic ceremony of the Eucharist has connections to Old Testament ritual (in the way they sanctify the Eucharist in a secret chamber and all that stuff). I don’t know much more about it, so perhaps it is a better practice?

I just learned that the Presbyterian Church (USA) signed an agreement with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, rejecting Calvin’s view (of pneumatic presence) and affirming “real” presence, which I’m happy with.
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I would recommend you read John 6:53-59 prayfully. The Eucharist is the source and summit of our Faith and yes, it is very important to us. It is a most precious thing.

Do I understand the Eucharist? I do not. It is my Faith and trust in the Word that makes me accept this teaching.

I have often contemplated on these verses and I think that I may have been among those disciples who turned their backs on Jesus. We have the benefit of 2000 years of teaching and grace.

:yup: :love: :yup: :love:
 
Cinette said:
I like your Message at the bottom. Don’t you like mine?
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Honestly, not really. I do not like to argue. Explain or discuss - sure. Argue? No.

If what you have say to say is Truth, it will be recognizable as such, without argument.
 
Cinette said:
I would recommend you read John 6:53-59 prayfully. The Eucharist is the source and summit of our Faith and yes, it is very important to us. It is a most precious thing.

Do I understand the Eucharist? I do not. It is my Faith and trust in the Word that makes me accept this teaching.

I have often contemplated on these verses and I think that I may have been among those disciples who turned their backs on Jesus. We have the benefit of 2000 years of teaching and grace.

:yup: :love: :yup: :love:
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That section of John is where I derive my view of “real presence” – along with Jesus’ words at the Lord’s Supper.

I do think the words of Christ from John you point to have another dimension (and is not limited to the Eucharist); however, that’s another issue altogether. For me it is enough to know the presence is real – not just symbolic & not only spiritual but physical and actual, which is the Methodist view & has been adopted by Presbyterians (at least the PCUSA & it’s offshoots). So this would be an area where I do disagree with Calvin.

Calvin is accused of trying to infuse too much “logic” into this matter – which is actually something I agree with. The Lord’s Supper is a mystery of faith. However, I would also say the RCC has gone too far in creating philosophical concepts to explain these mysteries. To quote Tertullian, “what does Athens have to do with Jerusalem”?

Blessings
 
I just wanna go on record that I think this type of thread shouldnt be allowed to be created by catholics in a NON CATHOLIC RELIGION forum. It seems almost ALL of the created threads here are made by Catholics challenging non catholics. 🤷
 
palmas85 said:
I suggest you read 2 Peter Chapter 2. It would seem to disagree with your assesment of Christianity as accepting everything and everyone who calls himself Christian or that calls itself Christianity…
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I did not say that at all. I said that all Christians are part of the universal catholic church, meaning the body of Christ. I did not define Christians. I don’t exactly see your point in any case. I was merely remarking on the childish desire of a few here to rant that they are somehow better than everyone else. Pride and humility would suggest that that is not a proper path to take.
 
cheese_sdc said:
I should have said that the arrogance of Christians is “one of” the reasons I’m no longer Christian. There are many, many more reasons why I left Catholicism in particular and Christianity in general.

I do, thanks.
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I think as well and I left too! Don’t know where you went but I bowed out of “revealed” religions altogether. All of filled with this kind of argument. “God told us this” “No, he told US something different”… ad infinitum. If there really was an all powerful, benevolent God I think he’d had made things a bit more clear (and a lot of other things). 🤷
 
SIA said:
Well, I am a non-Catholic who is an ex-cradle Catholic who never will accept Catholicism again because I truly know what it is.
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i can tell you don’t…

(sorry, just being honest)
 
sola_scriptura said:
I think the RCC will have to reform again to meet these challenges (as it had to in order to meet the challenge of Lutheranism).

You can compare the Protestant faith to baal if you would like (ironically you will find no icons or statutes in our churches – so I fail to see the analogy, but whatever). However, the reality is that that Protestantism is a different apple. Baal worship didn’t last 500 years and counting. Baal worship never grew into a worldwide movement. This sort of narrow mindedness on your part is quite astonishing.

The fact is the only way the RCC has ever risen to the challenges of Protestantism was to become more like Protestants.

I see many things wrong with both Catholicism and mainline protestantism. The celibacy requirement is killing the priesthood, while liberalism is creating an exodus to conservative evangelical churches. The RCC simply won’t be able to compete because it will not be able to recruit enough priests unless it drops celibacy. Taking a non-zealous and scholarly look at these numbers I think my view is correct.

Catholics who actually attend Mass, believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, etc. is now only at about a quarter of people who identify themselves as Catholic in this country. I do think those challenges can be met without changes, because frankly I think people should attend service every Sunday & I think there is a real presence in the Eucharist (I just wouldn’t seek to define this mystery as the RCC or even some Protestant denominations would).

God will shape things out exactly how He wants them to turn out. We will keep growing, denominations that are not in accord with the divine will shall keep dying, the Catholics will keep changing, etc. etc. Until one day all Christians are on the same page – God’s page.

As it is if one believes in Christ and follows His commandments they are in Christ … good enough for me. If you like you can have at you’re medieval bigotry, but it will get you nowhere.
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SOLA,

Now please don’t get me wrong I’m not comparing protestanism to baal. Yes, Catholics do have Religeous pictures etc. My point is do you have pictures of family members in your wallet or hanging on your wall, of course you do, but you don’t worhips them do you? Niether do we Catholics worship these Pictures or statute and I am quite sure you know this to be true however you use it for your modern day bigotry attacks.

Your concern for celibacy killing the Priesthood is of no concern or worry of Jesus Christ, Sola, read (Matt. 19: 11-12) He said, "Not everyone can accept this teaching, only those to whom it is given to do so. Some men are incapable of sexual activity from birth; AND SOME THERE ARE WHO HAVE FREELY RENOUNCED SEX FOR THE SAKE OF GOD’S REIGN. Let HIM accept this TEACHING who can.

Sola, Catholic Priest who are priests, Freely Renounce Marriage for the Sake of God’s Kingdom. Sola, lol please don’t assume that this will be the down fall of the Catholic Church. Jesus uses the word “TEACHING” And look who it is Teaching it, it is is Our Lord Jesus Christ teaching men to be so to Renounce Marriage, For the Sake of the Kingdom of God, that is, if you can ACCEPT IT!

Sola above you mentioned: “Taking a non-zealous and scholarly look at these NUMBERS I think my view is correct.” Sola, as you say “you think” my friend you think wrong. As for Catholics we take our views from** (Matt. 16: 18) I for my part declare to you, you are “Rock,’ and on this rock I will Build My CHURCH and the gates of Hell can Not Prevail Against IT.** AMEN. That means that the Catholic Church will never fall, and there is proof of this, Sola, what do you think about these 'Numbers” for the Catholic Church still stands Strong for over 2000 years and counting, Amen.

Even so if all the Catholics in the world Don’t believe in the Eucharist, it is Still 100% Jesus Christ, no matter what, Amen

As for me and my household and hundreds of millions arround the world through the Grace of God truely believe that it is truely Jesus Present, And for those who don’t, well, lets let God, be the Judge of them, Amen 👍

God will indeed shape thing/hearts the way it was before the protestant reformation and that is One Church, not thousands.

By me using Bold/Capitals is in no way of me yelling at you.

God Bless you on your journey Home,

Ufamtobie
 
SIA said:
Well, I am a non-Catholic who is an ex-cradle Catholic who never will accept Catholicism again because I truly know what it is.
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what is it about catholicism, SIA, that you dislike so much? now that you truly know what it is, why will you never accept it again? please be honest.
 
ufamtobie said:
SOLA,

Now please don’t get me wrong I’m not comparing protestanism to baal. Yes, Catholics do have Religeous pictures etc. My point is do you have pictures of family members in your wallet or hanging on your wall, of course you do, but you don’t worhips them do you? Niether do we Catholics worship these Pictures or statute and I am quite sure you know this to be true however you use it for your modern day bigotry attacks.

Your concern for celibacy killing the Priesthood is of no concern or worry of Jesus Christ, Sola, read (Matt. 19: 11-12) He said, "Not everyone can accept this teaching, only those to whom it is given to do so. Some men are incapable of sexual activity from birth; AND SOME THERE ARE WHO HAVE FREELY RENOUNCED SEX FOR THE SAKE OF GOD’S REIGN. Let HIM accept this TEACHING who can.

Sola, Catholic Priest who are priests, Freely Renounce Marriage for the Sake of God’s Kingdom. Sola, lol please don’t assume that this will be the down fall of the Catholic Church. Jesus uses the word “TEACHING” And look who it is Teaching it, it is is Our Lord Jesus Christ teaching men to be so to Renounce Marriage, For the Sake of the Kingdom of God, that is, if you can ACCEPT IT!

Sola above you mentioned: “Taking a non-zealous and scholarly look at these NUMBERS I think my view is correct.” Sola, as you say “you think” my friend you think wrong. As for Catholics we take our views from** (Matt. 16: 18) I for my part declare to you, you are “Rock,’ and on this rock I will Build My CHURCH and the gates of Hell can Not Prevail Against IT.** AMEN. That means that the Catholic Church will never fall, and there is proof of this, Sola, what do you think about these 'Numbers” for the Catholic Church still stands Strong for over 2000 years and counting, Amen.

Even so if all the Catholics in the world Don’t believe in the Eucharist, it is Still 100% Jesus Christ, no matter what, Amen

As for me and my household and hundreds of millions arround the world through the Grace of God truely believe that it is truely Jesus Present, And for those who don’t, well, lets let God, be the Judge of them, Amen 👍

God will indeed shape thing/hearts the way it was before the protestant reformation and that is One Church, not thousands.

By me using Bold/Capitals is in no way of me yelling at you.

God Bless you on your journey Home,

Ufamtobie
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The way you keep saying AMEN sounds like a Baptist sermon 😃

I’m not interested in the downfall of the RCC – I simply disagree with much of its theology.

I take a different view of what “church” means within the context of Scripture & the role of Peter as rock. So I agree the church of Christ will never fail – indeed it keeps growing. Just look at how many new converts evangelicals are bringing to us.

I do think the church at Rome will be okay – but I also know protestantism will be around until Jesus hits ground again.

AMEN!
 
sola_scriptura said:
The way you keep saying AMEN sounds like a Baptist sermon 😃

I’m not interested in the downfall of the RCC – I simply disagree with much of its theology.

I take a different view of what “church” means within the context of Scripture & the role of Peter as rock. So I agree the church of Christ will never fail – indeed it keeps growing. Just look at how many new converts evangelicals are bringing to us.

I do think the church at Rome will be okay – but I also know protestantism will be around until Jesus hits ground again.

AMEN!
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Sola,

what makes you believe that only Baptists uses the word AMEN?

FYI, Amen is mention at every Mass, and after every prayer we say. This tells me you don’t know not much about Catholism. Amen. Truth is, that Amen was said in the Church before the protestant reformation. I would say that Methodists sound like Catholic.

I Have found that many learned men such as protestant ministers/presidents converting to Catholism: In May 17 2007 the Protestant world was shocked when Francis J. Beckwith, the president of the Evangelical Theological Society, converted to Catholicism. He was the President of the Evangelicals Theological Society, an association of 4,300 Protestant Theologians.

You may say that many Catholic are leaving the faith to follow protestantism and that may be true, but these are what I call So-called catholics and these are not learned Catholics, these don’t know much about their Catholic faith and so they leave they were not Catholics from the heart.

Last May, well-known Protestant and founder of the pro-life group Operation Rescue, Randall Terry, made a seemingly bizarre announcement: He was converting to Roman Catholicism.

The Roman Catholic Church has started a special organization with a Web site (chnetwork.org) just to help convert Protestant clergy. Entire Protestant churches have converted, including the charismatic Maranatha Christian Church in Detroit (now Catholic),

Now when we hear about such LEARNED MEN such as Francis J. Beckwith, Randall Terry, etc…we begin to see Learned men of Faith, once Protestant now becoming Catholics and the unlearned becoming protesants because these did not have any real faith to begin with and again, so they leave.

I know people who have left the Catholic faith to become Protestant after a few years being Protestant now they are nither Protestant nor Catholic but some have come Home again.

Sola, You contradict yourself, you say that the Church of Rome will be ok? You are either for the Catholic Church or against it there is no in betweens with God.

Yes of course the Church of Rome will be more than ok, Jesus Christ Promised it.

God Bless you on your journey home

Ufamtobie

Ufamtobie
 
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