How long will it take for non-Catholics to finally accept Catholicism?

[RisenAgain]

Well, I am a non-Catholic who is an ex-cradle Catholic who never will accept Catholicism again because I truly know what it is.

I am a cradle catholic and I am interested in hearing about why you decided to leave the one true church of Jesus Christ.

Didn’t you know that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and built it upon Peter, the first Pope?

Didn’t you know that the Catholic Church gave the world the Bible?

Why would you leave the truth for that which is less than the truth?

 

[RobGentner]

I am a cradle catholic and I am interested in hearing about why you decided to leave the one true church of Jesus Christ.
**I am a cradle catholic also. He never believed is my first impression. Never felt Jesus in the Eucharist. How sad! SIGH! **

Didn’t you know that Jesus founded the Catholic Church and built it upon Peter, the first Pope?
He didn’t care?

Didn’t you know that the Catholic Church gave the world the Bible?
And the ability to benefit from the sacraments that Jesus gave to His Church!

Why would you leave the truth for that which is less than the truth?
**Yea, Why??? Poor soul! He isn’t even proud of his new religion, he hasn’t posted what it is! I AM A ROMAN CATHOLIC and proud of it! **
**
Rsing Again. You went all the way back to posting number 2? Catching up on mail? **

 

[Hislittlelady]

As far as I can see, never! It’s not going to be. I have many Protestant friends that I love dearly, they are wonderful people, but when it comes to religious discussions, I dare not. they are not one bit receptive and they have often told me how much they dislike Catholicsm. So they are my dear friends, but we leave things be as they are. I also have many dear Catholic friends.

I do not foresee the great majority of Protestants ever converting to Catholicsm. It certainly appears that Catholics are the ones that run for the hills and become Protestants.

I don’t understand what their issue is with the church. If it’s the same old gripes that everyone always complains about, that’s not a good enough reason in my book. But, just my own opinion. I’m proud to be a Catholic and feel so blessed by God.
:twocents:

 

[Frank_J]

Hi

Please ist all Church that had the Latin Tridentine Mass every Sunday in the United States the in the last 39 year?

Please don’t count SSPX or FSSP group.

All of you must live outside the 50 States. I never ever heard of any bishop ever allowing the Latin Mass. Remember fibbing is wrong and truth should not be bent.

I’ve lived in MA from 1961 to now. the last Tridentine Mass to be used in my old Church was mid-1969. It was after that that only Novus Ordo. It was never ever used again. To this day it is still never allowed.

The only reason that the Latin Tridentine Mass is being allowed is because the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre pushed Rome to the wall. It had no choice if it wanted to keep the Traditionalists in the Church.

Rome needs the Traditionalists if it wants to hold on the Tridentine Mass in the future. If Rome didn’t give in it would see a large segment break away and form it own body of Christians that believe that the only true Mass is the one and only Latin Tridentine Mass.

Second I don’t have a chip on my shoulder and I don’t have a hidden agenda. I very happy with my converting to Holy Orthodoxy.

Have a great day.

Frank J

 

[jmcrae]

Hi

Please ist all Church that had the Latin Tridentine Mass every Sunday in the United States the in the last 39 year?

Please don’t count SSPX or FSSP group.

All of you must live outside the 50 States. I never ever heard of any bishop ever allowing the Latin Mass. Remember fibbing is wrong and truth should not be bent.

Why exclude the FSSP? They are licit and valid priests.

The only reason that the Latin Tridentine Mass is being allowed is because the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre pushed Rome to the wall. It had no choice if it wanted to keep the Traditionalists in the Church.

If that were the case then they would have regularized the SSPX; they didn’t.

Rome needs the Traditionalists if it wants to hold on the Tridentine Mass in the future. If Rome didn’t give in it would see a large segment break away and form it own body of Christians that believe that the only true Mass is the one and only Latin Tridentine Mass.

This isn’t Rome’s problem, either way. People are always free to leave, if they want to - for any reason. Rome isn’t “into” pandering.

 

[Frank_J]

Hello RobGentner,

In your remarks to Jmcrae I feel that you got me pegged worng. Lets go over what part I would like to talk about. You will see the arrows in your remarks below. I didn’t leave the trail of salvation; I found it when I converted to Holy Orthodoxy. To call the Tridentine Mass a “minor” problem would be an insult all theTraditionalists that hold that Mass so dear to their hearts.

I know GOD is with me always in life and I remain steadfast in my Christian faith.

Jmcrae, I told Frank the same thing by saying: “Frank, ever hear the majority of one theory? A ‘majority of one’ is the single voice that remains steadfast in the face of the majority of numbers. It relies on spiritual depth, and is committed to doing the correct thing not the popular thing!” —>He has his owe agenda, In his heart of hearts he know he was wrong leaving the TRCC. I think he is attempting to justify to himself, his departure off the correct trail to salvation because of a “minor” thing based totally on tradition, not on anything important. Petty, but to him important enough to risk his eternal soul. <—]May God have mercy on all of us as we struggle with problems and crosses during our travel through this life. Blessings…

Have a great day.

 

[Frank_J]

Hello jmcrae

FSSP didn’t come in to after the Archbishop made his move to keep his group going in light of the suppression of the Latin Mass, since mid-1969.

The FSSP would have been founded in late 1988. Before then only SSPX had the Latin Mass.

Have a good day.

Frank J

 

[RisenAgain]

RobGentner:
Easy ROB- let’s give our Protestant brother a chance to reply before we begin to taunt him; this is pleasing in the sight of our God - to be kind to all. Let us be patient. Let him answer for himself. I am open to hear him out. Thanks.

 

[Frank_J]

Hello

You said that people are free to leave and i want to quote you correctly:

This isn’t Rome’s problem, either way. People are always free to leave, if they want to - for any reason. Rome isn’t “into” pandering.

The Traditionalists would leave if Rome tried to shut them down again. If Rome don’t care to have them, then it should suppress the Trdentine Mass and let us see what happens.

Your Pope of Rome needs them not the other way around.

Have a good day.

Frank J

 

[jmcrae]

Hello jmcrae

FSSP didn’t come in to after the Archbishop made his move to keep his group going in light of the suppression of the Latin Mass, since mid-1969.

Why do you suppose the Pope started his own Latin Mass group, instead of just regularizing the SSPX, if the SSPX was “right all along”?

 

[Frank_J]

Hi

It is because he wants them in the Church. He is trying to prop up the falling numbers of Catholic who are leaving in greater numbers. Islam in Europe and what it means to his Church in coming years.

Romes’ main intent was to have only one Mass for the Latin Church and that was to be Novus Ordo and only that.

The larger segment of Triditionalists are not part of the your RC Church they are independent Catholic that don’t agree with Rome on Novus Ordo. I still chat with many Triditionalists Relgionists and they will never except the Novus Ordo as valid. That would say that your Church has to deal with this.

Your Pope use the Latin Tridentine Mass when he is alone in his chapel.

Oh! lets not forget that the Rome Church set up it’s own eastern church to try to draw Eastern Orthodox Christians. You know what we call them?? Can’t use word ( ) word because it will drive the Catholic Answer off the deep end.

Catholic Answer is to PC to be an open chatroom

Have a good day.

Frank J

 

[Frank_J]

Hello,

Wanted to show you this. Changes in the Liturgy (OF) - All Sacramental Formulae in Latin. Pope Benedict changes the Novus Ordo Mass. You can read where he is going make the changes in your Mass. In the year that come there will be more an more changes until the Mass will not look like you have seen for the Last 39 years. Another Change is going to be in the creed that you say. It will say I believe and not We believe.

thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/2008/07/changes-in-liturgy-of.html

Please explain how long will the Novus Ordo last in the coming years???

Have a great day.

Frank J

 

[VARC]

How long will it take for non-Catholics to finally accept Catholicism?

I think it will take less than 5 years for the majority of non-Catholics to accept Catholicism.

What on Earth would lead you to believe that?

 

[sola_scriptura]

Hello RobGentner,

In your remarks to Jmcrae I feel that you got me pegged worng. Lets go over what part I would like to talk about. You will see the arrows in your remarks below. I didn’t leave the trail of salvation; I found it when I converted to Holy Orthodoxy. To call the Tridentine Mass a “minor” problem would be an insult all theTraditionalists that hold that Mass so dear to their hearts.

I read a few of your posts regarding the Tridentine Mass & while I’m not Catholic I guess it’s worth noting a few obvious facts (I’ll probably get blasted – but what the heck it hasn’t stopped me before ). First, the fact that devoted Catholics are flocking to churches that offer this form of worship is not evidence that this form of worship is in itself superior or that the movement to other forms of liturgy is responsible for somehow ruining Catholicism. The fact is devoted people in any religion are attracted to anything they view as conservative (or a return to more traditional values, which sometimes they might equate with liturgy, particularly Catholics).

Moreover, if speaking Latin were in itself more Godly the reformation (in part based on the idea that the congregation should understand the word of God) would have never gotten off the ground. Indeed the fastest growing religious movement today is evangelical Christianity (particularly denominations that invoke charismatic worship forms – which IMO is problematic in a sense & does point to a failure on the part of “mainline” denominations). They have virtually no liturgy (or perhaps none at all). They simply chant sing and chant (and totally misunderstand the purpose for which spiritual gifts are used by God).

The Orthodox Church is doing quite well these days as well. Frankly, I personally have a great deal of respect for the EOC. They never joined the Roman road trip down the theological yellow brick road. Little has changed with, for instance, Greek churches in perhaps 1,900 years (and I remember reading a few months back that divorce rates in Greece are practically nill).

While they might say the church as a whole is infallible they simply don’t take the Roman view – rather they view infallibility as inherent in the ecumenical councils (which I personally think is fine). Even their Marian dogma, except the declaration of Mary as Mother of God (which I don’t object to – at least the careful way it was explained by the Council of Ephesus) isn’t official dogma. Moreover, it rejects the notion of sacred and ordinary magisterium (as representing infallible doctrine).

Overall the EOC

I know GOD is with me always in life and I remain steadfast in my Christian faith.

Jmcrae, I told Frank the same thing by saying: “Frank, ever hear the majority of one theory? A ‘majority of one’ is the single voice that remains steadfast in the face of the majority of numbers. It relies on spiritual depth, and is committed to doing the correct thing not the popular thing!” —>He has his owe agenda, In his heart of hearts he know he was wrong leaving the TRCC. I think he is attempting to justify to himself, his departure off the correct trail to salvation because of a “minor” thing based totally on tradition, not on anything important. Petty, but to him important enough to risk his eternal soul. <—]May God have mercy on all of us as we struggle with problems and crosses during our travel through this life. Blessings…

Have a great day.

I think the greatest folly of man is that many think they can read the mind of God & know how our Lord thinks – in such a way that men boldly declare to be enlightened above all others. This might sound strange coming from a protestant – but some of us understand that there are many aspects of God beyond our comprehension, while others seem to need a logical explanation for everything? I love logic & is someone tells me apples are really oranges I’ll think they’re a fool all day long. However, when someone presents linear logical equations that purport to quantify the mind of God – I just laugh.

 

[RobGentner]

**Solo, my brother, Overall an excellent post > I was proud of your insight. You were doing so well and then you went off the road with: **

… The Orthodox Church is doing quite well these days as well. Frankly, I personally have a great deal of respect for the EOC. They never joined the Roman road trip down the theological yellow brick road. Little has changed with, for instance, Greek churches in perhaps 1,900 years (and I remember reading a few months back that divorce rates in Greece are practically nill).

**These “facts” just aren’t true. Point blank they are made up in your head. But then a lot of your facts are! **

While they might say the church as a whole is infallible they simply don’t take the Roman view – rather they view infallibility as inherent in the ecumenical councils (which I personally think is fine).

**You would! They are misguided. The RCC is the only true church:thumbsup: **

Even their Marian dogma, except the declaration of Mary as Mother of God (which I don’t object to **Boy, I am guessing Jesus and his Mother are happy for that! ** /COLOR]-- at least the careful way it was explained by the Council of Ephesus) isn’t official dogma. Moreover, it rejects the notion of sacred and ordinary magisterium (as representing infallible doctrine). Overall the EOC

**It is good you agree with them. Somehow, I have a feeling you and they might be spending eternity together. **
sola_scriptura;4186048:

I think the greatest folly of man is that many think they can read the mind of God & know how our Lord thinks – in such a way that men boldly declare to be enlightened above all others. This might sound strange coming from a protestant

Actually it sounds stranger coming from you did you have a conversion to RCC and decided that you don’t understand God’s mind anymore?

– but some of us understand that there are many aspects of God beyond our comprehension, while others seem to need a logical explanation for everything? I love logic & is someone tells me apples are really oranges I’ll think they’re a fool all day long. However, when someone presents linear logical equations that purport to quantify the mind of God – I just laugh.

**OMG! You are so funny!! You need to take that act on the road. You are talking out both sides of your mouth at the same time. Did you actually say: “while others seem to need a logical explanation for everything?” ** Hahahahaha. My sides hurt!:extrahappy: I will keep this post it will “come back to haunt you” my friend, many times!

God bless!

 

[sola_scriptura]

****It is good you agree with them. Somehow, I have a feeling you and they might be spending eternity together. ****

yes – but sadly we won’t be able to pass you even a sip of water.

 

[RobGentner]

Easy ROB- let’s give our Protestant brother a chance to reply before we begin to taunt him; this is pleasing in the sight of our God - to be kind to all. Let us be patient. Let him answer for himself. I am open to hear him out. Thanks.

**RisenAgain: About 4 hours ago I might have agreed with you. However, on my way home from church tonight. I was listening to Catholic radio. They were talking about Secular Humanism and how it is currupting our society and even creeping into Catholic’s minds here in America. They said that Catholics are getting caught up with this false idea of being “fair” to everyone. They said that we think wrongly when we thing that we must always have religious tolerance. This was a light bulb moment, as Oprah says :newidea: Secular Humanism is creeping into our attitudes. It seems to fit in with what you said and others attitudes here. Many so called christians have this attitude that we are all the same. That True church and false teachings should live together in harmony . Well, that just isn’t true! We are to “Defend our faith from all attacks, from within, as well as from outside!”:knight2: Other wise we will fall into the trap of the Devil.

So may I say in all Catholics in love and fellowship, do not agree with false teachings. Why do you want to even listen to false teachings? Do you actually think Jesus would? Not the Jesus I know and worship. He would defend His Church from attack. Being God, He could do so, by His Word alone.

**

 

[sola_scriptura]

**OMG! You are so funny!! You need to take that act on the road. You are talking out both sides of your mouth at the same time. Did you actually say: “while others seem to need a logical explanation for everything?” ** Hahahahaha. My sides hurt!:extrahappy: I will keep this post it will “come back to haunt you” my friend, many times!

God bless!

Ahh Rob … I’m glad you were amused.

 

[RobGentner]

Hello,

Wanted to show you this. Changes in the Liturgy (OF) - All Sacramental Formulae in Latin. Pope Benedict changes the Novus Ordo Mass. You can read where he is going make the changes in your Mass. In the year that come there will be more an more changes until the Mass will not look like you have seen for the Last 39 years. Another Change is going to be in the creed that you say. It will say I believe and not We believe.

thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/2008/07/changes-in-liturgy-of.html

Please explain how long will the Novus Ordo last in the coming years???

Have a great day.

Frank J

**Oh, thanks for letting us know! Let me run out and become a protestant. That site is strange. What you don’t realize is to True Catholics these things are unimportant. These are small “t” traditions, which aren’t really important, just habits and things that are used to standardize the church.
We actually could say the Mass in Chineese, if the Church decided we should. It would make little difference so long as we understod what was being said. We don’t say the Mass in the spoken language of Jesus Christ. So why is it so important?
I am a cradle Catholic, I was in my twentys when the Church changed the mass. It didn’t bother me. Jesus was still there. I still remember the Latin Mass I heard it for many years and know what is being said.
The RCC never changes Capital “T” Traditions. They were handed down from Jesus to His Church here on earth. That is what is so wrong with EO and Protestants they disregard many Traditions but follow traditions. They think small traditions are important! Foolish is a good word to use Condemned to eternal damnation might be more accurate, but unlikewhat some others may sometimes say, I do not attempt to speak for my God. His “voice” is strong enough by itself! **

 

[RobGentner]

Hello RobGentner,

In your remarks to Jmcrae I feel that you got me pegged worng. Lets go over what part I would like to talk about. You will see the arrows in your remarks below. **I didn’t leave the trail of salvation;****Yes you did! ** I found it when I converted to Holy Orthodoxy.Wrong! To call the Tridentine Mass a “minor” problem **I didn’t say it was a" problem", I said the Mass in Latin is a minor thing. Jesus is there no matter what language the Mass is said!**would be an insult all theTraditionalists that hold that Mass so dear to their hearts. **So be it! I hold the Mass and the sacraments dear to my heart! You fools threw away the Baby (JESUS) with the wash water!Sorry Foolish is the only word that applies and I say that in the kindest possibe way! **

I know GOD is with me always in life and I remain steadfast in my Christian faith.That is good Frank, I am glad to hear that. And hopefully through the grace of the RCC you will share eternity with us! " The good thing is you only have about forty years of history to deal with, unlike the True Church. Makes it harder for people to throw rocks at your church./B]

** .>… He has his owe agenda, In his heart of hearts he know he was wrong leaving the TRCC. I think he is attempting to justify to himself, his departure off the correct trail to salvation because of a “minor” thing based totally on tradition, not on anything important. Petty, but to him important enough to risk his eternal soul. < **

**Sorry Frank that remainsl my opinion. Your remarks didn’t change my mind and I am sure mine didn’t your either. You appear to be a good man, I will coninue to pray for you. May God have mercy on all of us as we struggle with problems and crosses during our travel through this life. Blessings…

Have a great day. **