How many Catholic couples contracept and/or are sterlized?

[Good_Daughter]

Know what’s wierd? I understand the teaching, I think I understand the whys of it… I get why the Church does not, and probably CANNOT, change it. At the same time as I can’t live up to it…

I find myself explaining NFP on some threads. I have even defended the teaching at times. Am I being a hypocrite? Or am I doing a sort of penance, helping others understand better, hoping they can synthesize it and do better with it than I did?

Some of NFP’s biggest promoters are also its biggest failures. I know I fit both descriptions.

Want to know why I keep plugging away, trying to learn and defend Church teaching on contraception? It’s because I want something better for my girls than what I had.

I’ve come close to giving up on this Catholic “ideal” for my marriage after falling to temptation so many times but, thanks to God’s grace, I do keep trying.

Thanks for your honesty.

 

[pira114]

Let’s get two things straight.

1. If you’re using NFP to AVOID getting pregnant, you ARE contracepting! Period. It’s not “aritificial birth control,” but it’s birth control.
2. Baptism in the Church makes you Catholic. You may not be in a state of grace, but once Baptised, you will always be Catholic.

 

[mercygate]

And?

Let me tell you that I am intimately acquainted with the feelings of people who study and learn and know what the Church teaches, want to be obedient, go through the struggles, fear, crying, and pain that come with trying to figure out how to fit this teaching into their own lives, fail, and go to confession. And then do it all again. And again, and again. Then they think, painful as it will be to be THAT disobedient, they can just solve this particular problem for the rest of their lives. That temptation sits on their shoulder, year after year, taunting them, mocking their pain and struggle. When they finally fall, and give in, thinking it will solve the issue once and for all, they realize as soon as they wake up from the anesthesia that they have really solved nothing. They cry with regret, shake in fear of going to Hell, feel sick every time they enter a church… and finally bring themselves to go to confession. But even after they have done that, they still have to deal with the pain and regret.

One thing that irks me no end is how cavalierly NFP promoters think we failures make our decisions. And believe me, we realize we are and feel like failures. Many do it out of ignorance. Many do it because they feel forced by social expectations. Many do it because they wake up in a cold sweat knowing there is not enough money to both pay bills and buy groceries for the kids they already have. If you think these things are not realities in America 2008, you are fooling yourself.

There are some of us who choose to bear the crosses that come with obeying the Church and practicing NFP. And there are some of us who feel we have no choice but to bear the crosses that come with disobeying. And I bet very few are really as sure about any of their choices as they make themselves out to be. If you were transported back five or ten years, can you honestly say you would make all your choices the same? I can’t…

I know some see this as just a matter of discipline and trust in God. Maybe it is that simple. And maybe, just maybe, some of you should admit that it is not.

The scenario I was respondiong to had nothing to do with this.

I was responding to this:

I would also guess that the reason so many have been steralized is that once they confess that, it’s done. If they keep using ABC then they need to go to confession much more often.

That statement implied that one might choose sterilization with the intent of “going to confession” and it would be over. confession and it’s over.

 

[mercygate]

Let’s get two things straight.

1. If you’re using NFP to AVOID getting pregnant, you ARE contracepting! Period. It’s not “aritificial birth control,” but it’s birth control.
2. Baptism in the Church makes you Catholic. You may not be in a state of grace, but once Baptised, you will always be Catholic.

Not havng sex is NOT **contra-**ception. It is birth control but it is not contraception. Avoiding sex during the fertile time may be sinful if used with a contraceptive mentality. But the infertile time was put there by the good Lord, and intercourse has never been proscribed just because the woman is infertile, neither is it commanded during the tme when she is not.

No one is in a position to peek into the hearts of those who are avoiding pregnancy – except for one’s confessor, of course, and even then, only when invited.

 

[Brenda_V]

Let’s get two things straight.

1. If you’re using NFP to AVOID getting pregnant, you ARE contracepting! Period. It’s not “aritificial birth control,” but it’s birth control.
2. Baptism in the Church makes you Catholic. You may not be in a state of grace, but once Baptised, you will always be Catholic.

Not havng sex is NOT **contra-**ception. It is birth control but it is not contraception. Avoiding sex during the fertile time may be sinful if used with a contraceptive mentality. But the infertile time was put there by the good Lord, and intercourse has never been proscribed just because the woman is infertile, neither is it commanded during the tme when she is not.

No one is in a position to peek into the hearts of those who are avoiding pregnancy – except for one’s confessor, of course, and even then, only when invited.

That is right mercygate. NFP is birth control but not contraception whereas barrier methods and chemical (hormonal) methods and even withdrawal are both contraception and birth control.

So really what we need to do is remember that Birth Control does not equal contraception. As a matter of fact barrier methods are not always “contraceptive” because of when you have intercourse but then they get into contra-unitive, unitive being one aspect of marital sex. (This is a whole other thread!)

This is of course way off topic so as to how many Catholics use some form of contraception I would guess it is larger than those who use NFP or nothing. I know that I would have used NFP exclusively had my husband been willing. It took us many years of charting and using condoms before I finally could take it no longer and he agreed (reluctantly and is reluctant to this day some 15 years later!)

Phemie was raised with a similar attitude to what I was raised with about ABCs. Sure it was known that the church frowned on it but what are you to do if your Priest tells you, “oh, it is okay, what does your conscience tell you?” Honestly I don’t think there are that many Catholics in our age range (50+) who heard anything different. I have learned that it is a well formed conscience that is supposed to help you make these decisions and if your Priest hasn’t got one (a well formed conscience) how can you expect his parishioners to?

All you younger moms on here who are struggling with this have our experience that we share with you to learn from. We know that ABC is so wrong on more levels than you can imagine. BTW, the strongest reason for not using a chemical means of BC (hormonal, The Pill) was it’s abortifacient nature and not the contraceptive-ness about it - at least that is what I was taught so you see, you all have way more out there for you to learn from than we did - remember Christopher West is about our age (or younger maybe even) and Theology of the Body was being written when we were young adults struggling with this ourselves and the internet was only among colleges and professors so information was not so instantaneous as it is now.

Having said this, what we need to do is keep on keeping on sharing our experiences and knowledge and eventually our children will be the Catholics struggling with this but they will have far more knowledge than we did and we will be there to support them in their difficult decision of using NFP to either avoid or achieve or just to know if they are pregnant (can be done just for that too!)

Brenda V.

 

[kind_bean]

If you’re using NFP to AVOID getting pregnant, you ARE contracepting! Period. It’s not “aritificial birth control,” but it’s birth control.

“Natural Family Planning is fertility awareness, the knowledge of a couple’s fertility. It is a means of reading a woman’s signs of fertility and infertility. The Couple to Couple League teaches three basic signs of fertility — temperature, mucus and cervix — and how to apply this knowledge through the Sympto-Thermal Method (STM) of NFP, **which can be used both to achieve and to avoid or postpone pregnancy…NFP allows couples to prudently regulate births without recourse to unnatural, immoral methods of birth control that interfere with the way God designed our fertility.”
** ~ From: ccli.org/ (Couple to Couple League website).

The Church has said that as long as one practices NFP to avoid or postpone pregnancy for serious reasons it is not sinful and couples facing serious reasons are encouraged to practice NFP. The Church is against ABC and using NFP for selfish reasons, not the total avoiding of pregnancy.

 

[Good_Daughter]

Having said this, what we need to do is keep on keeping on sharing our experiences and knowledge and eventually our children will be the Catholics struggling with this but they will have far more knowledge than we did and we will be there to support them in their difficult decision of using NFP to either avoid or achieve or just to know if they are pregnant (can be done just for that too!)

What a beautiful, encouraging post, especially the paragraph I highlighted.

At 36, I may be almost a generation younger than Phemie but I can certainly relate to her experience growing up Catholic in Canada. With 12 years of catechism classes, a lifetime of weekly mass and two devout Catholic parents who tried their best, I knew premarital sex was forbidden according to Church teaching, but I was about 20 before I heard anything regarding contraception. I couldn’t believe there were “rules” once you were married!

After that, I followed Catholic teaching grudgingly and got some mediocre NFP instruction. NFP failed me and I failed NFP. I went from being a Catholic to being a “Catholic”,(as the OP might say ) all because one of the Church’s most beautiful, life-giving teachings has been kept nearly untaught for too long, especially in my little corner of the world.

I really started learning about Catholic teaching on human sexuality when I logged on to CAF.

Now, whether I resist the temptation to contracept or fall a thousand times, I still embrace Catholic teaching as true, strive to understand it better, and share it whenever possible.

I know the pitfalls of contraception firsthand. If I fail to witness to the Church’s “better way”, I hold myself partly responsible for the contraceptive use of those around me.

 

[mercygate]

What a beautiful, encouraging post, especially the paragraph I highlighted.

At 36, I may be almost a generation younger than Phemie but I can certainly relate to her experience growing up Catholic in Canada. With 12 years of catechism classes, a lifetime of weekly mass and two devout Catholic parents who tried their best, I knew premarital sex was forbidden according to Church teaching, but I was about 20 before I heard anything regarding contraception. I couldn’t believe there were “rules” once you were married!

After that, I followed Catholic teaching grudgingly and got some mediocre NFP instruction. NFP failed me and I failed NFP. I went from being a Catholic to being a “Catholic”,(as the OP might say ) all because one of the Church’s most beautiful, life-giving teachings has been kept nearly untaught for too long, especially in my little corner of the world.

I really started learning about Catholic teaching on human sexuality when I logged on to CAF.

Now, whether I resist the temptation to contracept or fall a thousand times, I still embrace Catholic teaching as true, strive to understand it better, and share it whenever possible.

I know the pitfalls of contraception firsthand. If I fail to witness to the Church’s “better way”, I hold myself partly responsible for the contraceptive use of those around me.

To my mind, you come off as real people facing real issues to the best of your ability.

If I were hearing your confession, I would hear your good faith and freely give absolution, asking for a hic et nunc promise of amendment of life.

As Protestants WAY back in the 70s, DH and I did not contracept (partly because the Catholic Church was agin’ it – and we respected that – and partly because we intuited the wrongness of it). It was VERY tempting at times to ‘deviate’ – and had I been Catholic, and had we ‘deviated’, we would have confessed it as we would any other sin, in the hope of not doing it again.

In our culture, it is almost impossible to grasp the seriousness of contraception in terms of the full dignity of the human person.

I say, kudos to anybody who’s even willing to give it a try! God love ya.

 

[duskyjewel]

His recommendations for the sterilized couple are:

1. Lasting repentance (true sorrow for the act of sterilization and all the subsequent sins of sterilized intercourse).
2. Behavioral options: complete abstinence until the woman is unfertile (although he points out that he doesn’t feel this is necessary), reversal surgery, and/or practicing NFP (as though the sterilization never occurred).

~From the book, Sex and the Marriage Covenant: A Basis For Morality by John F. Kippley copyright 2005

With all due respect to Mr. Kippley, if a person who confesses this sin has performed the penance assigned by their confessor, and met all other requirements for a good and valid confession, then nothing else is required of them. Their absolution is complete, forever, and unconditional. That is what our Church teaches.

 

[Phemie]

At 36, I may be almost a generation younger than Phemie but I can certainly relate to her experience growing up Catholic in Canada. With 12 years of catechism classes, a lifetime of weekly mass and two devout Catholic parents who tried their best, I knew premarital sex was forbidden according to Church teaching, but I was about 20 before I heard anything regarding contraception. I couldn’t believe there were “rules” once you were married!

Yes, we’re a generation apart (I’m 54) and we grew up in the same general corner of the country.

I remember in grade 11, having a priest in the classroom and asking him “If I don’t believe that something is a sin, is it a sin?” “No” was the reply. At the time we’d specifically been talking about pre-marital sex. There was no discussion of informed conscience, just a “No, if you don’t believe it’s a sin it isn’t a sin.” There were at least a couple more priests who specifically said ABC was fine, the last one when we were having a discussion on the topic after DH had his vasectomy.

 

[jwashu]

It’s not “done” just because it’s confessed. You have to MEAN it when you confess it.

I agree

 

[Brenda_V]

With all due respect to Mr. Kippley, if a person who confesses this sin has performed the penance assigned by their confessor, and met all other requirements for a good and valid confession, then nothing else is required of them. Their absolution is complete, forever, and unconditional. That is what our Church teaches.

duskey - I am glad you addressed that. I had all I could do to address the NFP misunderstanding. Yes, the Church expects us to repent of our sins but once it is truly repented and confessed and absolved it is washed away, gone, no longer in need of penance.

Yes, we’re a generation apart (I’m 54) and we grew up in the same general corner of the country.

I remember in grade 11, having a priest in the classroom and asking him “If I don’t believe that something is a sin, is it a sin?” “No” was the reply. At the time we’d specifically been talking about pre-marital sex. There was no discussion of informed conscience, just a “No, if you don’t believe it’s a sin it isn’t a sin.” There were at least a couple more priests who specifically said ABC was fine, the last one when we were having a discussion on the topic after DH had his vasectomy.

Phemie, you are only 4 years older than I am and quite honestly I could say word for word that we had the same discussion in my Catholic School. We were also introduced to the (what I now know was new) NFP. Yes, NFP as you all know it today only started in the 1970’s before that it was the most unreliable rhythm method (only works for that rare woman who has a regular cycle of 26-30 days!) What a conundrum for me, Sister said the only way to regulate the size of my family was NFP and Father was saying that “No, if you don’t believe it’s a sin it isn’t a sin.” . How confusing is that? So, you don’t use The Pill because it can kill a baby - the same with an IUD but barrier methods, there you go, I don’t think it is a sin, so, it isn’t a sin! Of course, sterilization was out, you just didn’t do anything permanent like that to your body if you didn’t have to! Who do you believe? Father or Sister? I honestly believe that is why Pope John Paul the Great started preaching on the Theology of the Body! I don’t even know if the Priest or Sister knew for sure what to tell us!

Again, keep in mind that we are sinful beings and prone to fooling ourselves and to falling. You know the difference between a Saint and not a Saint? The Saint picks himself up after he sins and tries again, the not a Saint despairs and doesn’t even try.

Brenda V.

 

[newbetx]

Know what’s wierd? I understand the teaching, I think I understand the whys of it… I get why the Church does not, and probably CANNOT, change it. At the same time as I can’t live up to it…

I find myself explaining NFP on some threads. I have even defended the teaching at times. Am I being a hypocrite? Or am I doing a sort of penance, helping others understand better, hoping they can synthesize it and do better with it than I did?

We might have a bit in common.

NFP is tougher on some than others. I know it was tough on me. But I was weak. ABC took it’s toll eventually. And looking back it was me that needed to change. I have been able to, so I hope that you can too. Keep reading, listening to TOB, and maybe that will help.

 

[tvdxer]

What is your best guess estimate for how many “Catholic” couples use contraception or are sterilized?

Of those who are of “fertile” age, probably about 75 - 80 % - right in line with the national average.

Note that simply because a couple has one or two or three children or even no children at all does not mean they are contracepting or sterilized. They could be using NFP, or perhaps they are unable to have another child.

 

[newbetx]

With all due respect to Mr. Kippley, if a person who confesses this sin has performed the penance assigned by their confessor, and met all other requirements for a good and valid confession, then nothing else is required of them. Their absolution is complete, forever, and unconditional. That is what our Church teaches.

This is correct. But what I think he means, is, one must have a change of heart as stated below. And he is correct about that.

According to a book on Catholic marriages and sex, there is more that is required for a married Catholic couple in which one or both spouses who have been sterilized:

“Each (sexual) act (taken place after sterilization) objectively contradicts the meaning of the marriage act, for it is a permanent way of saying, “I take you for pleasure but not for the imagined worse of pregnancy.” … Many people have confessed the sin of sterilization and have not been counseled about the need to change their way of life. If truly repentant, they can be forgiven their sin of mutilation, but can a person be forgiven now - today - for future sins of contraceptively sterilized intercourse?..We can stop the continuing effects of our sin by having a change of heart, which is reflected by a change of behavior. God does not require the impossible, but He does require us to do what is possible and necessary for right living. Therefore, if it is possible for me to change my behavior to stop future sins, I must do so.”

His recommendations for the sterilized couple are:

1. Lasting repentance (true sorrow for the act of sterilization and all the subsequent sins of sterilized intercourse).
2. Behavioral options: complete abstinence until the woman is unfertile (although he points out that he doesn’t feel this is necessary), reversal surgery, and/or practicing NFP (as though the sterilization never occurred).

~From the book, Sex and the Marriage Covenant: A Basis For Morality by John F. Kippley copyright 2005

If one does not have a change of heart OR falls back into the trap that ABC can lead us, then while the original sin is forgiven, sexual sin can still happen. (Not that it can’t with regular NFP or post menopausal sex but that isn’t addressed here). So behavioral changes are necessary. He has suggestions and they should be considered, I suppose, to bring back living like we are supposed to.

See we can fall into a trap that says, “we’ve confessed, but we don’t have anything to worry about pregnancy wise, so life is good!” and BOOM, we’re back forgetting what the sacrafice part of sex is about. So I have to agree that one that confesses a permanent sterilization is not completely off the hook with just a confession.

But as stated in another post… if we work very hard to support NFP discussions, is that a change of heart? Working to keep others from failing the same way? Indeed it is. Is it enough? God only knows.

 

[newbetx]

Of those who are of “fertile” age, probably about 75 - 80 % - right in line with the national average.

.

Can you quote the source? I’m not arguing. Just wanting a credable source. Thanks.

 

[Phemie]

So, you don’t use The Pill because it can kill a baby - the same with an IUD but barrier methods

The pill today may work that way but back when I was first on the pill it contained such a high level of hormones (about 10 times more than today) that it truly was ‘contraception’. In my case it meant the ob/gyn who saw me after I’d been on it for over a year had a fit because I wasn’t even having break through bleeding.

I’d originally gone on the pill after codeine did nothing for the cramps that kept me out of school each month so I’d been happy with the result. Now I was married and his first question to me was “Do you ever plan to have kids? If you do, you need to get off this pill now.” Of course there was no mention that the lower dosage one he prescribed functioned any differently.

 

[Brenda_V]

The pill today may work that way but back when I was first on the pill it contained such a high level of hormones (about 10 times more than today) that it truly was ‘contraception’. In my case it meant the ob/gyn who saw me after I’d been on it for over a year had a fit because I wasn’t even having break through bleeding.

.

Phemie - I am pretty sure that even the pill you were prescribed had at least that two prong method - there was the contraceptive (which worked really well in your body but may not have in someone elses) and the making the womb inhospitable to a newly formed life (which happened in some cases - I don’t know how many and am skeptical of the figures given on some websites about the large numbers). You are not that much older than I am so when I was in High School the pill you were prescribed could have been a common one that the Sisters were telling us about.

BTW, you had a medical reason other than contraception for using them which the Church says is acceptable.

Brenda V.

 

[Good_Daughter]

To my mind, you come off as real people facing real issues to the best of your ability.

If I were hearing your confession, I would hear your good faith and freely give absolution, asking for a hic et nunc promise of amendment of life.

Your kind words are a balm, thank you. I’m not familiar with *hic et nunc *, would you translate?

As Protestants WAY back in the 70s, DH and I did not contracept (partly because the Catholic Church was agin’ it – and we respected that – and partly because we intuited the wrongness of it). It was VERY tempting at times to ‘deviate’ – and had I been Catholic, and had we ‘deviated’, we would have confessed it as we would any other sin, in the hope of not doing it again.

In our culture, it is almost impossible to grasp the seriousness of contraception in terms of the full dignity of the human person.

I say, kudos to anybody who’s even willing to give it a try! God love ya.

Speaking only for myself, I deserve no praise for trying to avoid contraception and live my marriage according to Catholic teaching. Quite the contrary, I praise God for such teaching that, while sometimes difficult to implement, provides clear answers to the questions on love, sex and marriage that I’ve agonized over most of my life.

For all I give in my struggle to use NFP, God gives back more.

 

[pira114]

Not havng sex is NOT **contra-**ception. It is birth control but it is not contraception. Avoiding sex during the fertile time may be sinful if used with a contraceptive mentality. But the infertile time was put there by the good Lord, and intercourse has never been proscribed just because the woman is infertile, neither is it commanded during the tme when she is not.

No one is in a position to peek into the hearts of those who are avoiding pregnancy – except for one’s confessor, of course, and even then, only when invited.

When I used the word contraception, I’m using it in it’s literal sense. To avoid conception. That’s what your doing when you use NFP to avoid getting pregnant.

I’m not judging anybody. Never would. Just pointing out that it’s the same thing. I would caution anyone using NFP to avoid pregnancy against judging someone using any other form of birth control. Only because I see them as the same thing. I know the Church does not, but I’m just stating my own opinion.

If we really want to do things the way God intended (as I think someone else put it, not that I think I know what he intended!), it would be a man and a woman, married in the eyes of God, making love. Without any knowledge or concern about fertile/non-fertile. God decides when and if you get pregnant.

Practical in todays world? Probably not for the majority of us! Is this how my wife and I do it? No. We could not provide for more than the children we have now. So why did I write all this junk? Just because I see too many (not necessarily anyone here) NFP’ers criticizing others and taking a “holier than thou” attitude when I believe they are doing the same thing.

P.S. If I offended anyone, I appologize. It was the last thing I wanted to do.