How many Catholic couples contracept and/or are sterlized?

[childofmary1143]

I think your dismissive/derisive quote mark around the term Catholic to describe these couples is extremely rude and elitist. The Church is a hospital for sinners… where else would you have us who struggle and fail on birth control issues go?

Are there other classes of sinners that are not real Catholics to you, or is this reserved only for sexual/birth control sins?

Without this degenerating into insults, let me enlarge on what I am trying to ask. There are couples that I know that practice ARTIFICIAL birth control (is that really a lot different than saying contraception), when the teachings of our faith say they shouldn’t.

Also there are couples that have been sterilized when our teachings say otherwise.

I put the quotations around the word Catholic as there are some couples who struggle and fail on the birth control issues and then there are some who have no intention of trying obey.

Hope this clears up any misconception.

 

[Phemie]

I put the quotations around the word Catholic as there are some couples who struggle and fail on the birth control issues and then there are some who have no intention of trying obey.

Hope this clears up any misconception.

Don’t forget that for many of us it’s not about having “No intention to obey” it’s about having been told by priests that there was no problems with using ABC or being sterilized. An entire generation was told that it was up to their individual conscience and if they had a good reason to use ABC or to ‘call it a day’ it was ok. In Canada, that was the Bishops’ response to Rome after Humanae Vitae was released “We will leave it up to the individual’s conscience.”

I worked in a Catholic hospital and sterilizations were routinely done and ABC readily prescribed.

 

[anna1978]

Don’t forget that for many of us it’s not about having “No intention to obey” it’s about having been told by priests that there was no problems with using ABC or being sterilized. An entire generation was told that it was up to their individual conscience and if they had a good reason to use ABC or to ‘call it a day’ it was ok. In Canada, that was the Bishops’ response to Rome after Humanae Vitae was released “We will leave it up to the individual’s conscience.”

I worked in a Catholic hospital and sterilizations were routinely done and ABC readily prescribed.

Same in Holland and Britain: my MIL was told by her priest that it was ‘up to her conscience’ so went on the pill, and back in 1989 I asked a priest who said the same thing…It’s really more complex than out-and-out disobedience…

As it is, we use ‘nothing’ (not even NFP) and we still only have 2 kids!

 

[Phemie]

Same in Holland and Britain: my MIL was told by her priest that it was ‘up to her conscience’ so went on the pill, and back in 1989 I asked a priest who said the same thing…It’s really more complex than out-and-out disobedience…

As it is, we use ‘nothing’ (not even NFP) and we still only have 2 kids!

My parents were the same back in the 50s. Only 3 children + 1 spontaneous abortion without ever having used any contraception – as my father made a point of telling me one day.

 

[mercygate]

What is your best guess estimate for how many “Catholic” couples use contraception or are sterilized?

Why the question?

Estimates of 95% are unrealistic. Many (VERY many) Catholics are past the age where this even applies.

 

[3GirlsRUs]

Same in Holland and Britain: my MIL was told by her priest that it was ‘up to her conscience’ so went on the pill, and back in 1989 I asked a priest who said the same thing…It’s really more complex than out-and-out disobedience…

As it is, we use ‘nothing’ (not even NFP) and we still only have 2 kids!

I kind of wonder something about this…And I don’t mean to be confrontational or anything…but if a priest says something that doesn’t jive with Church Teaching…why on Earth do people listen to that? I guess it’s weakness and wanting to be able to say “the priest said it was ok…”??? I mean, I imagine that I could find a priest who would say this to me…surely they are out there…but what is the point of asking? I mean…I know that I have been taught all my life (cradle Catholic) that it is wrong to use artificial birth control or to sterilize…just because I can find a priest to say otherwise should not take away my culpability…or am I off base here?

Infertility is a cross and I am sorry for those who suffer it and also the misplaced judgments.

Sometimes fertile people see their fertility as a cross, too and sometimes people with infertility are not very sensitive to that either.

Unfortunately, our society has come to view children as either burdens or birthrights. And I just see it as sad that we don’t look at each child as the special gift from God that each is.

As for how many I think are contracepting. I have no idea. I do know that I feel a special sort of persecution by society at large (Catholic and non-Catholic, sadly) because my husband and I choose NOT to sterilize or use ABC to limit our family size. I have had plenty of Catholics offer up the whole…"Why don’t you use ‘the pill’ " to stop from having babies or “When is (DH) gonna get snipped?”

Either way…speculation and questions on either side are somewhat impolite.

 

[jwashu]

I would tend to agree with “why would you listen to a Priest who said that.” I’m sure the thought for many is that Priest is “out there” as stated.

However I know Priests who openly state this in regards to ABC if people are otherwise following the CCC in regards to being open to life. If each month they are considering if this is the right time to bring another life into the world as the Church teaches and praying about it, they are ok with it and have actually told people not to confess it.

Let me add that none of these Priests are “out there.” In fact all of them are very strict in every other sense and allow no Litugrical abuses of any kind in the Parish. They are warm, caring and IMHO very Holy. I guess they just interpret the CCC differently than HV. (I say guess because I can’t remember if there is anything in the CCC that says no ABC).

Joe

 

[mercygate]

I would tend to agree with “why would you listen to a Priest who said that.” I’m sure the thought for many is that Priest is “out there” as stated.

However I know Priests who openly state this in regards to ABC if people are otherwise following the CCC in regards to being open to life. If each month they are considering if this is the right time to bring another life into the world as the Church teaches and praying about it, they are ok with it and have actually told people not to confess it.

Let me add that none of these Priests are “out there.” In fact all of them are very strict in every other sense and allow no Litugrical abuses of any kind in the Parish. They are warm, caring and IMHO very Holy. I guess they just interpret the CCC differently than HV. (I say guess because I can’t remember if there is anything in the CCC that says no ABC).

Joe

From the Catechism:

**2370 **Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:

Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.

 

[Phemie]

You have to remember that the average Catholic is not reading the Catechism with his/her coffee in the morning. They are not conversant with Canon Law. Those of my generation who lived where I did had no marriage preparation and the ideas that are expressed in the Catechism are foreign to our thinking. Let’s face it, having sex with my husband was strictly a physical thing and God didn’t come into the picture in any way, shape or form. Sex was sex. Period, end of sentence.

When I read some of the stuff posted here on this topic my jaw just drops. My generation and my parents’ generation were not instructed in any of the spiritual aspects of sex. Nor, when we got out of school, did most of us pick up anything of a religious nature as bedside reading. I’d never heard of the “Theology of the Body” until I read it here last year, nor had I ever heard of West. It’s not something our pastor talks about – and he’s one of those 'leave it to your conscience" priests. He wouldn’t dream of telling someone not to use ABC. People have no other option, he’s the only priest within 500 miles. If they don’t believe him, what other option do they have? He’s the type who says “God loves us no matter what, no matter how horrible we are he’s always there for us and never abandons us.” Then he refuses to sit in the confessional/reconciliation room “Because nobody ever comes to confess.” No kidding, there’s never any mention of needing to repent and confess.

 

[mercygate]

You have to remember that the average Catholic is not reading the Catechism with his/her coffee in the morning. They are not conversant with Canon Law. Those of my generation who lived where I did had no marriage preparation and the ideas that are expressed in the Catechism are foreign to our thinking. Let’s face it, having sex with my husband was strictly a physical thing and God didn’t come into the picture in any way, shape or form. Sex was sex. Period, end of sentence.

When I read some of the stuff posted here on this topic my jaw just drops. My generation and my parents’ generation were not instructed in any of the spiritual aspects of sex. Nor, when we got out of school, did most of us pick up anything of a religious nature as bedside reading. I’d never heard of the “Theology of the Body” until I read it here last year, nor had I ever heard of West. It’s not something our pastor talks about – and he’s one of those 'leave it to your conscience" priests. He wouldn’t dream of telling someone not to use ABC. People have no other option, he’s the only priest within 500 miles. If they don’t believe him, what other option do they have? He’s the type who says “God loves us no matter what, no matter how horrible we are he’s always there for us and never abandons us.” Then he refuses to sit in the confessional/reconciliation room “Because nobody ever comes to confess.” No kidding, there’s never any mention of needing to repent and confess.

Wow. Even though I KNOW this is true, it still makes my eyes pop.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

You have to remember that the average Catholic is not reading the Catechism with his/her coffee in the morning. They are not conversant with Canon Law. Those of my generation who lived where I did had no marriage preparation and the ideas that are expressed in the Catechism are foreign to our thinking. Let’s face it, having sex with my husband was strictly a physical thing and God didn’t come into the picture in any way, shape or form. Sex was sex. Period, end of sentence.

When I read some of the stuff posted here on this topic my jaw just drops. My generation and my parents’ generation were not instructed in any of the spiritual aspects of sex. Nor, when we got out of school, did most of us pick up anything of a religious nature as bedside reading. I’d never heard of the “Theology of the Body” until I read it here last year, nor had I ever heard of West. It’s not something our pastor talks about – and he’s one of those 'leave it to your conscience" priests. He wouldn’t dream of telling someone not to use ABC. People have no other option, he’s the only priest within 500 miles. If they don’t believe him, what other option do they have? He’s the type who says “God loves us no matter what, no matter how horrible we are he’s always there for us and never abandons us.” Then he refuses to sit in the confessional/reconciliation room “Because nobody ever comes to confess.” No kidding, there’s never any mention of needing to repent and confess.

I think this is the answer as to why people use ABC, and possibly why so many people people use it.

Children from a young age are poorly educated.

Several topics are not discussed openly from the pulpit during mass, when there’s basically a “captive audience” - ABC, abortion, stem cell research, etc.

People are not challenged to go to confession.

Sure people may not like this. People may leave. The truth hurts sometimes, but, you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

 

[SirOscar]

Hello,

This post is nothing but an attempt to point the finger and what you claim as “just and observation” is entirely a judgement. How is it possible to make the assumption that all large families are dysfunctional and the children have problems? How is it you can make the assumption that all couples who have no children are using a form of birth control?

I can make the assumption that Jesus is not in the Eucharist because, well…I don’t see him in there…I don’t taste him either, just my observation.

What really was the intent of your post as I am having a hard time grasping it? Do not judge what you do not know, and when you do know, do not judge period. You must have a big beam in your eye!

I think your observations are unjust, and very presumptuous and critical.

We are all human, we all sin in one way or other. We all have have hard choices. Whether or not a couple uses birth control is entirely none of my business.

Most Catholic married couples know that ABC is not accepted by the church. Free will is the means to which we use to either accept the teaching or go against it.

I kind of wonder something about this…And I don’t mean to be confrontational or anything…but if a priest says something that doesn’t jive with Church Teaching…why on Earth do people listen to that? I guess it’s weakness and wanting to be able to say “the priest said it was ok…”??? I mean, I imagine that I could find a priest who would say this to me…surely they are out there…but what is the point of asking? I mean…I know that I have been taught all my life (cradle Catholic) that it is wrong to use artificial birth control or to sterilize…just because I can find a priest to say otherwise should not take away my culpability…or am I off base here?

I agree with you 100%. Some couples (I am assuming) would keep asking till they got the answer they wanted to hear, just so they could have the illusion that they are not accountable, but it still is their choice and their responsibility, not the priest’s

For all of you who are having difficulty conceiving, my heart goes out to you. God be with you, and I apologize you had to defend yourselves. Pray to Mary to help guide you in your struggles. I often pray for couples who are having difficulty as I do know some, and will include you in my prayers. God be with you.

 

[Phemie]

Wow. Even though I KNOW this is true, it still makes my eyes pop.

Imagine how my poor husband feels now that I have discovered this site and read some of this stuff. Married 32 years and suddenly nothing that we used to do is OK. I don’t even feel able to tell him why I’ve withdrawn.

He’s like a previous poster, still interested but not able to achieve penetration in 99% of attempts. Now, rather than to put myself in a position of sin I withdraw from his touch. He’s confused about why I never seem to be interested, even though that is a zillion miles away from the truth. To tell him why would have him think I’m nuts, especially when none of this was brought up in his marriage preparation (we weren’t in the same city so although I had no marriage prep, he did).

 

[mercygate]

Imagine how my poor husband feels now that I have discovered this site and read some of this stuff. Married 32 years and suddenly nothing that we used to do is OK. I don’t even feel able to tell him why I’ve withdrawn.

He’s like a previous poster, still interested but not able to achieve penetration in 99% of attempts. Now, rather than to put myself in a position of sin I withdraw from his touch. He’s confused about why I never seem to be interested, even though that is a zillion miles away from the truth. To tell him why would have him think I’m nuts, especially when none of this was brought up in his marriage preparation (we weren’t in the same city so although I had no marriage prep, he did).

Sounds like the two of you need to talk. There’s more to this than ignorance/enlightenment of the faith.

Even as a non-Catholic, at about the time you got married, I KNEW without any doubt that the Catholic Church nixed contraception. Of course, I wasn’t Catholic, so I didn’t have a priest telling me it was OK anyhow.

You two need a quiet discussion about what’s between the two of you. Then go to the details of the theology.

 

[JudieK]

This whole conversation highlights the urgent need for parents to take an active role in educating their children in the faith. Almost everything I know about the Catholic faith and the Church, I learned on my own. Homilies are more like cute anecdotes than sound teaching. Parents MUST actively teach their children… you just can’t count on the church, CCD, schools, or anyone else to teach your kids what they need to know. We see the effects of a generation that didn’t get this information. We need to change the tide. Parents- tell your kids about the beautiful gift that is their sexuality, and what God’s plan for it is. Paint it in the most wonderful light… not in “you shouldn’t 's.” I judge no one here. What people do is between them and God. But it IS my responsibility to teach my kids God’s plan. Then, as adults, it will be between THEM and God. I will have done what I could.

 

[Phemie]

Sounds like the two of you need to talk. There’s more to this than ignorance/enlightenment of the faith.

Even as a non-Catholic, at about the time you got married, I KNEW without any doubt that the Catholic Church nixed contraception. Of course, I wasn’t Catholic, so I didn’t have a priest telling me it was OK anyhow.

See, my parents never ever talked about that before I got married and most of the priests who ministered to my generation in Canada were of the “it’s up to your conscience” school.

Remember, our Conference of Bishops came up with “The Winnipeg Statement” in response to Humanae Vitae and that’s essentially what they, as a national body, said to Rome, “Regardless of what the latest encyclical says about artificial birth control, we are leaving it up to the individual conscience.” That statement has NEVER been rescinded and there are still many priests and bishops who would be furious if it ever were.

 

[mercygate]

See, my parents never ever talked about that before I got married and most of the priests who ministered to my generation in Canada were of the “it’s up to your conscience” school.

Remember, our Conference of Bishops came up with “The Winnipeg Statement” in response to Humanae Vitae and that’s essentially what they, as a national body, said to Rome, “Regardless of what the latest encyclical says about artificial birth control, we are leaving it up to the individual conscience.” That statement has NEVER been rescinded and there are still many priests and bishops who would be furious if it ever were.

Well, now you are fiddling with the facts.

No conference of bishops has any right to tamper with infallible teachings on faith and morals. I am certain that the Winnipeg Statement received a sound response from the CDF.

The teaching on contraception is part of the ordinary infallible Magisterium, and as such, binding on all Catholics.

 

[duskyjewel]

From Wikipedia:

Some have claimed that the statement was accepted “with satisfaction” by Pope Paul VI.[9] Although this allegation is strongly disputed,[10] it is worth noting that the Holy See has not published an official condemnation of the Winnipeg Statement, per se.

So maybe the CDF has not responded as strongly as one might think? Anyone know more?

 

[Phemie]

From Wikipedia:

So maybe the CDF has not responded as strongly as one might think? Anyone know more?

The only response from Rome was notication that they had received the document. They never, as far as anyone knows, responded to it any further. So no matter what anyone says about how we should have known better, the fact remains that we were not taught anything different.

Although our parents might have been told that contraception was sinful, we of the Canadian 60s and 70s generation reaped what the conference of Bishops had sown. Even some of my parents’ friends, those who married in the 50s, were sterilized in the 60s at Canadian Catholic hospitals because “they had good reasons for doing so” and they did so with their pastors’ blessings. Nobody back then went pastor shopping.

 

[kage_ar]

I kind of wonder something about this…And I don’t mean to be confrontational or anything…but if a priest says something that doesn’t jive with Church Teaching…why on Earth do people listen to that? I guess it’s weakness and wanting to be able to say “the priest said it was ok…”??? I mean, I imagine that I could find a priest who would say this to me…surely they are out there…but what is the point of asking? I mean…I know that I have been taught all my life (cradle Catholic) that it is wrong to use artificial birth control or to sterilize…just because I can find a priest to say otherwise should not take away my culpability…or am I off base here?

As an adult convert, I too am sometimes baffled by this. When I was an adolescent and young adult, I did not know ANY Catholics, none of my family were Catholic. The fact that the Catholic Church did not allow birth control was general knowledge. Comics made jokes about it on TV, movies, novels, magazines, it was just one of those facts that everyone knew.