How many Catholics are YEC

[Hobgoblin]

These are my thoughts too. Man gained sentience/soulfulness relatively recently. Once in hand, things rapidly escalated.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I already have posts from Ed that he doesn’t realise confirm that the planet is millions of years old.

Try and get him to accede even that.

He is entitled to his own opinion. He doesn’t have to accede or agree to your demands to believe as you do.

 

[edwest211]

No evidence for that. And the dates keep getting pushed back further and further. The latest deep space Hubble image took time to create. It shows tiny galaxies as far as it can see, and tiny, faint galaxies beyond them. How big is the universe? At present, Hubble can’t tell us.

 

[Hobgoblin]

No evidence for that. And the dates keep getting pushed back further and further. The latest deep space Hubble image took time to create. It shows tiny galaxies as far as it can see, and tiny, faint galaxies beyond them. How big is the universe? At present, Hubble can’t tell us.

There’s plenty of evidence. The whole of evolutionary science tells us this.

The size of the universe and Hubble’s limitations are irrelevant.

 

[edwest211]

The Catholic Church’s explanation is the only one I’ll accept. The science only explanation is deficient.

 

[Hobgoblin]

The Catholic Church’s explanation is the only one I’ll accept. The science only explanation is deficient.

The Catholic Church doesn’t deny science. Maybe I’m missing something. Can you tell me exactly what it is that you think the Catholic Church’s explanation is?

I think you’re confusing Science and Materialism. Science is simply the study of the Natural. It’s agnostic. It makes no claims for or against the Supernatural. The Supernatural simply doesn’t matter to it as it can only observe and test the Natural.

 

[edwest211]

There is your answer: “The Supernatural simply doesn’t matter to it as it can only observe and test the Natural.”

It is deficient. For Catholics, it is not the only source of knowledge.

 

[Hobgoblin]

It is deficient. For Catholics, it is not the only source of knowledge.

I never said science was only source of knowledge. This is exactly what I said:

To be clear: I believe that the universe was created by God and he knew exactly what he was setting himself up for. He didn’t necessarily dictate that Ravens would be black and Robins red, etc. (although he might have), but the important part is that he set up a universe that would work on its own without the need for supernatural intervention.

Nothing there in conflict with Catholic teaching.

 

[edwest211]

Since it is the science only and deist explanation, it is incorrect and incomplete.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Since it is the science only and deist explanation, it is incorrect and incomplete.

Incomplete, sure. And I could take literally any post on this forum and call it that. You haven’t shown science to be incorrect though. Nothing you’ve referenced has refuted my argument.
Science can only describe the natural. It’s just a tool, not a philosophy. Higher meaning is the realm of religion.

 

[edwest211]

And that reply shows the problem. Sadly, this has not kept purely philosophical conclusions out of textbooks. You should be aware that some who lack the whole story about man’s identity think they are less than they should.

 

[Hobgoblin]

It’s really not clear to me where you’re coming from with your posts. Are you arguing against science, or against materialism in textbooks? I’m sure the latter might exist, but it’s nothing to be surprised about. All the more reason for Christians to do their job in society. But simple science is absolutely agnostic and has revealed marvelous secrets about the universe. Including the fact that it’s billions of years old and every living thing on Earth has a common ancestor…including us!

 

[edwest211]

I am coming from the Catholic Church has the whole, complete answer approach. Science does not have it. God works infallibly in Creation. Science tells people false things because it is partly blind.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I am coming from the Catholic Church has the whole, complete answer approach. Science does not have it. God works infallibly in Creation. Science tells people false things because it is partly blind.

That’s fine. But you have to understand science is incapable of a complete answer. It’s just a tool for testing and describing natural phenomena. It doesn’t tell falsehoods, it just tells what it’s able to tell. Higher meaning is a function of religion.

 

[Greenfields]

Science does get it wrong at times,and has to be corrected and updated.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Science does get it wrong at times,and has to be corrected and updated.

That’s exactly why it’s not an enemy of God. It’s just a tool for discovering the truth of the natural universe. It pursues truth no matter where it leads and will correct itself if it’s shown to be wrong. That’s the scientific method.

 

[Pattylt]

But Ed, the Catholic Church doesn’t specifically say how old the universe is. It gives options. To say you agree with the Church is fine but what is it your agreeing to? If it says you can accept that it is old or young…that isn’t a statement that you can say Yes to. You kind of have to pick one or the other.

 

[Hobgoblin]

the Catholic Church doesn’t specifically say how old the universe is.

This is the beauty of the Catholic Church and a reason it can be trusted. Even though it was established in an age when they couldn’t have fathomed the deep time that science has revealed, it nevertheless refused to commit to a concept that could easily be falsified in our present day. How easy it would have been to declare Genesis as literal in the first century. (And if they’d done so it would be used as ammo to discredit Christianity today). But the Church took great care to convey only what it knew to be truth.

I spent many years in flavors of Christianity where YECism was popular. For most of that time I didn’t give it a lot of critical thought, but as I fell away from God for a time YECism was something that created much doubt about the truth of Christianity. It’s so demonstrably false that absolutely no one would believe or even suspect it for other than religious reasons. And the lengths to which YECs will go to deny reality, at times outright slandering good people who only seek truth, is astonishing…and very un-Christlike. When I was drawn to the Catholic Church one of the first things I checked were its views on Creation. I was delighted to discover its stance!

Most YECs I know are good people just believing what they think they’re supposed to. They are frightened to embrace science because they think if it proves Genesis wrong then the whole Bible is undermined and their faith unravels. So instead of seeking truth where it leads they turn their brains off and anything that challenges their preconceived notions becomes an enemy. But science is just a tool for uncovering material truth. If God and Christianity are true then science won’t be able to invalidate them. To the contrary, it can do nothing but support them!

 

[meltzerboy2]

On the basis of one person?

 

[meltzerboy2]

My guess is not many, because the Church is not opposed to evolution provided one believes that Gd started and maintains the process. (BTW, there are a small minority of Jews who also believe in YEC, but the vast majority, including the Orthodox, do not.)