How many Catholics think this way?

[Sepharad]

Not all of them. Schoeman claims he was raised a Conservative Jew!

I can’t state whether he was or not, but I do know that of the three rabbis he claimed to have studied with, two were not Conservative, Orthodox or Reform, but were involved with an offshoot group.

 

[jmcrae]

One thing puzzles me. During the Middle Ages there were at best maybe 8-10 countries in the world that were Catholic, out of a total of 153 countries in the world at that time.

Why did the Jews keep cycling through these 8-10 Catholic countries, before finally giving up and pretending to convert to the Catholic faith, instead of moving to one of the 145 non-Catholic countries, where no doubt they could have freely remained openly Jewish?

 

[Sepharad]

They do not agree with the list you originally posted.

Well, not exactly, but some of the info is there.

I posted dates, names and places. I’m sure others with more time than I have can do their own searching online with that info?

I have all of that same info in my reference books but they are in my offline library which I cannot be expected to place online at a moment’s notice.

 

[Sepharad]

One thing puzzles me. During the Middle Ages there were at best maybe 8-10 countries in the world that were Catholic, out of a total of 153 countries in the world at that time.

Why did the Jews keep cycling through these 8-10 Catholic countries, before finally giving up and pretending to convert to the Catholic faith, instead of moving to one of the 145 non-Catholic countries, where no doubt they could have freely remained openly Jewish?

That is one question I don’t know the answer to. But having relocated myself several times in the last 10 years, I know how expensive it can be to move, let alone from one country to another, and since medieval Jews were often poor, maybe they couldn’t afford to move all the time? Especially when the Catholic monarchs who expelled them often required them to leave all their money and posessions behind?

 

[estesbob]

Well, not exactly, but some of the info is there.

I posted dates, names and places. I’m sure others with more time than I have can do their own searching online with that info?

I have all of that same info in my reference books but they are in my offline library which I cannot be expected to place online at a moment’s notice.

How about you concentrate on proving the assertion that the Catholic Church was responsble for the Holocaust?

 

[Sepharad]

I totally agree with you about Jews and Catholics, once apostacized, often become self-hating. And I think you’re right; only true religions produce true apostates.

Jews and Catholics, although different, are similar in some ways.

However, I do think that the Suffering Servant applies to Christ, who becomes both Priest and Victim in the offering up of Himself on the Cross.

It’s interesting, that, in the OT, the word “messiah”, or “annointed one” refers first to priests in the OT, then later, to kings.

This is what we think of Christ, the Anointed One, the Messiah; He came first as Priest, but at the end of time He shall come as King.

The concept of the “suffering servant” in Isaiah 53 applying to the Christian messiah is the Christian view; the traditional Jewish view has always been that it applies to the Jewish people.

But that is for another thread.

 

[Sepharad]

How about you concentrate on proving the assertion that the Catholic Church was responsble for the Holocaust?

I don’t recall ever saying that the CC CAUSED the Nazi genocide. But many historians and theologians do feel that the long history of a teaching of contempt for Jews, which came out of the church’s religious teachings for centuries in Europe, made the events that took place in Nazi Germany much easier for Germans to accept.

Even some Christian theologians recognize this:

languedoc-france.info/articles/a_jews.htm

 

[jmcrae]

That is one question I don’t know the answer to. But having relocated myself several times in the last 10 years, I know how expensive it can be to move, let alone from one country to another, and since medieval Jews were often poor, maybe they couldn’t afford to move all the time? Especially when the Catholic monarchs who expelled them often required them to leave all their money and posessions behind?

Which seems as though it would sort of make a person think, “Okay, this isn’t fun - let’s go someplace where they don’t have Catholicism.” Since they had to move anyway, and there were plenty of countries in the world that were not being run according to Catholic law. Yet, instead, they kept going to other Catholic countries.

It doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense, to me.

 

[estesbob]

I don’t recall ever saying that the CC CAUSED the Nazi genocide. But many historians and theologians do feel that the long history of a teaching of contempt for Jews, which came out of the church’s religious teachings for centuries in Europe, made the events that took place in Nazi Germany much easier for Germans to accept.

Even some Christian theologians recognize this:

languedoc-france.info/articles/a_jews.htm

The list you referenced made that assertion. Which highlights the problem of cut and pasting information from anti-Catholic websites without checking for their veracity.

I

 

[lurdes]

“To those Catholics who feel their religion should have the right to suppress non-Catholic religions by law and enforce their religion by law, they need to know that this country…the USA…was founded as a safe haven from that very thing. In fact even Catholics came here, to Maryland, to have a place where they could worship God as they saw fit.”

Maryland may have been founded as a Catholic colony, but it didn’t remain so for long. In 1649, only 15 years or so after being founded, it came under the control of the Puritans. After that, Catholics were excluded from participating in government and restrained in the exercise of their faith. In 1692, the Anglican church gained control of Maryland. Religious liberty was extended to all except Catholics. Catholic parents were forbidden to instruct their children in the faith under the threat of having their children taken away from them. They were not even allowed to send their children away to be instructed, though many did. Priests were forbidden from exercising their functions except in private home chapels. They tried to pass a bill to confiscate the property of clergy. All of this went on until the revolution. So, Catholics really didn’t have a place they were safe even in a place founded where they could have religious freedom.

that is the true, do you know why this group of people name the land Maryland? because they were love our Lady and this was a way to concecrate the land to her by naming it Mary-land.

 

[Kaninchen]

One thing puzzles me. During the Middle Ages there were at best maybe 8-10 countries in the world that were Catholic, out of a total of 153 countries in the world at that time.

Why did the Jews keep cycling through these 8-10 Catholic countries, before finally giving up and pretending to convert to the Catholic faith, instead of moving to one of the 145 non-Catholic countries, where no doubt they could have freely remained openly Jewish?

These 153 countries were where?

 

[lurdes]

I think everyone have it wrong, a few weeks ago my sister send me a site in Spanish to let me know what the UN is trying to do. I read it and they’re trying to set a one world religion they need it the singnature of all the leaders of all the religions and the only one who didn’t sing was Cardinal Arenssi, the UN wants to control the world not the Holy RCC. if anybody reads Spanish here is the site conoZe.com. by the way she is a JW and gave me that site to show me that the Holy RCC was planing this with the UN she didn’t know that Cardinal Arensi is a Catholic cardinal she told me hi was Orthodax carninal after I told her that he is Catholic and that the site was a Catholic site she did’t say anything again, she was trying to say that the Holy RCC was involve with the UN in this one world religion idea, it figures another anti-catholic miss informed.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

“To those Catholics who feel their religion should have the right to suppress non-Catholic religions by law and enforce their religion by law, they need to know that this country…the USA…was founded as a safe haven from that very thing. In fact even Catholics came here, to Maryland, to have a place where they could worship God as they saw fit.”

Who are these so called Catholics who feel their religion should have the right to supress non-catholic religions?

Can you name them?

Do you know in what country they reside or province?

Speaking as a Catholic I would side with you to expose such "Catholics who practice such force?

Am I mistaken that there cannot be such a group of Catholics?, and maybe you are sensing the movement of the Holy Spirit in the Catholic church, to expose and clean house of Christianites 500 years of error?

The Catholic church is not of the world to dictate governing Laws. The Catholic church is here to save souls, and to expose the tyrants who discriminate and destroy the dignity of life and death.
The Catholic church stands for the helpless and defensless, and protects the freedom of every person. Where do you get the idea that catholics want to supress a certain body of believers?

 

[emeraldcoast]

that is the true, do you know why this group of people name the land Maryland? because they were love our Lady and this was a way to concecrate the land to her by naming it Mary-land.

This Crabtown Girl gets upset when the history of her birth state is not correct…

Here is a link from a non-Catholic website, I hope that no one will mind the link.

msa.md.gov/msa/mdmanual/01glance/html/name.html

"Maryland’s name honors Queen Henrietta Maria (1609-1669), wife of Charles I (1600-1649), King of Great Britain and Ireland, who signed the 1632 charter establishing the Maryland colony. "

Peace

 

[lurdes]

IOW do many Catholics in the USA feel that it would be proper and right to suppress non-Catholic religions in order to have everyone convert to Catholicism?

in every other country the Holy RCC is the country religion and jet there is other religions and I haven’t heard the RCC forcing the to convert only the muslims do that why do you hate the RCC when there is other religions who kill you if you don’t convert I don’t here you talking bad about the muslims.

 

[qui_est_ce]

These 153 countries were where?

The Vatican

"*Gregory the Great’s letters just referred to. “As licence”, says this document, “ought not to be allowed to the Jews to presume in their synagogues beyond what is permitted by the law so they ought not to be interfered with in such things as are allowed. We therefore, although they prefer to continue in their hardness of heart rather than be guided by the hidden meaning of the prophets to a knowledge of the Christian faith, do nevertheless, since they invoke our protection and aid, following in the footsteps of our predecessors and out of the mildness of Christian piety, extend to them the shield of our protection.” The document then lays down;

(1) that the Jews are not to be compelled by force to embrace Christianity, but are only to be baptized of their own free will;
(2) that apart from a judicial sentence in a court of law no one is to injure them in life or limb or to take away their property or to interfere with such customary rights as they may have enjoyed in the places where they live;
(3) that they are not to be attacked with sticks and stones on occasion of their festival celebrations, nor are they to be compelled to render any feudal services beyond such as are customary;
(4) that their cemeteries in particular are not to violated. (See M. Stern, “Urkundliche Beiträge”, n. 171.) **This charter reissued and confirmed as it was by some twenty or thirty pontiffs during a period of 400 years is certainly of much more weight as laying down the Church’s view of the duty of toleration, as an abstract principle, than any persecuting edicts evoked by special circumstances or coloured by the prepossessions of the individual legislator.*Looking at the documents of unquestioned authenticity extracted by Stern from the papal Regesta it becomes clear that throughout the later Middle Ages the Jews in almost every emergency turned to the popes as to their natural protectors. Despite such legislation as that of the Fourth Council of Lateran (1215) imposing the wearing of a distinctive badge and excluding Jews from public offices, still even such a summary as that in the Jewish Encyclopedia (s. v. “POPES”) distinctly leaves the impression that the Holy See exercised on the whole a markedly restraining influence on the persecuting spirit of the Middle Ages. In particular, more than one of the popes, beginning with Innocent IV, issued Bulls exonerating the Jews from that charge of ritual murder,"

ccel.org/ccel/herbermann/cathen14.html?term=History+of+Toleration

Again, I ask, has the OP been answered?

 

[Kaninchen]

The Vatican

The Vatican is 153 countries?

Again, I ask, has the OP been answered?

I just wanted to know where the 153 countries were?

 

[lurdes]

Most people do not know that the Spanish Inquisition was inaugurated by the Spanish monarchy, not by the Catholic Church.

Those who were punished by the Spanish Inquisition were punished by the Spanish monarchy, not by the Catholic Church.

The Spanish Inquisition was not representative of the other inquisitions.

Paul

oh but they due know but is easy for the anti-catholics to blame the Holy RCC then the goverment of that time

 

[qui_est_ce]

The Vatican is 153 countries?

Actually the Vatican did not become a country until 1929. Italy was a Catholic country at the time, so that was not a good answer.

I just wanted to know where the 153 countries were?

Among the non-European countries:
North Africa:

Russia
Ukraine
In and around present-day European Russia and Ukraine:
Volga Bulgaria (660-1236)
Novgorod Republic
Golden Horde - in 1430s into Kazan Khanate, Crimean Khanate, Astrakhan Khanate, Siberia Khanate, Big Horde; Russia finally became independent
Khazar Empire (652-1016)
Kievan Rus (860 - 12th century)
Trubczewsk - Originally a sub-principality under Novhorod-Siversky, Trubchevsk was independent sporadically throughout the Middle Ages, in 1164–1196, 1202–1211, 1212–1240, 1378–1399, and finally in 1462–1503.
Grand Duchy of Lithuania (-1795)

Balkan states
Republic of Ragusa/Dubrovnik (1358-1808)
Medieval Croatian state (~800s-1102)
Great Bulgaria (632-660)
First Bulgarian Empire (681-1018)
Second Bulgarian Empire (1186-1396)
Bulgarian Khanate (681-864)
Byzantine Empire (330-1453)
Empire of Nicaea (1204-1261)
Empire of Trebizond
Despotate of Epirus
Despotate of Morea
European Crusader States (1098-1291)
Latin Empire of Constantinople
Kingdom of Thessalonica
Principality of Achaea
Duchy of Athens
Duchy of the Archipelago

Near East
Sultanate of Rüm (1077-1307)
Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia (1080-1375)
Asian Crusader States (1098-1291)
Countship of Edessa
Kingdom of Jerusalem
Principality of Antioch
Countship of Tripoli
Kingdom of Cyprus
Khwarezmian Empire (1077-1220)
Mongol Empire (1200-1266)
Crimean Khanate (1441-1783)
Tibetan Empire (7th to the 11th century)
Nanzhao (737-902)
Kingdom of Dali (937-1253)
Guge (ca. 900- ca. 1650)
Fatimid Caliphate (909-1171) in North Africa
Seljuk Empire
Timurid Empire Persia, Central Asia, and part of India
Mughal Empire (1526-1857) in India
Dzungar

 

[Kaninchen]

Actually the Vatican did not become a country until 1929.

I have to admit that I do know a bit about the history of Italy, even in Italian.

Among the non-European countries:

Thanks for the list but, I’m afraid, we do rather need an answer that refers to countries existing at the time of the events under discussion.

I’m not just being difficult for the sake of being difficult, I really would like an answer - and you’re not to blame, you didn’t raise the question of 153 in the first place!