How many Catholics think this way?

[MDK]

I dare say you charge is actually reflective of YOUR church. God did NOT set things up the way you wish He did, and backward design theology is not enough.

It’s God’s Church, the one built by Jesus the Christ as He said He would (please recall Matthew 16:18). Like any good family member, I refer to it also as my house as well, as a child would refer to his homoe even though his earthly father built it, because the child knows they belong there as part of the family. I am a child of God our Heavenly Father, with childlike faith in Him. God set things up as He desired, and He told us, and we believe Him. Actually, along my Christian journey, there were times where I had wished God had done things differently, because it’s not always easy following the way He set it up. No matter how difficult though, I’m committed to follow and be a part of His family, so I call His house my house, because I belong there.

No amount of hatred for the Catholic Church by her enemies will change the Truth. It does define, though, whether one abides by what God did and told us, or whether one prefers their own way. We Catholics live on every word from the mouth of God.

 

[thecoach]

authority is usurped?? no comprendo…

It is presumption that the papacy is licit?? Who says… You??

So you are the pope???

i think that is hwat Protestantism is all about… It started out with one man not wnating to be submissive to the pope (M Luther) and it has ended up that way… M Luther had some legitimate gripes, but he let his ego take over… He got a lot of attention from people who also didn’t wnat to be bound by the strictures of Christianity… (true Christianity)… He even said himself that things were better when the papacy “ruled”…

Actually nothing, not even the papacy “rules” humans… Humans make their own decisions… They have free will and are more than happy to use it or abuse it…

Yes I now full well you no comprendo…thats exactly the point… Am I the pope? no…ut that statement shows how you are controlled, that only a pope can think and speak on these things.

 

[jmcrae]

LOL. Since your “authority” is usurped, I dont see any logic to your argument. It presumption is that the papacy is licit, which it is not. SO nothing else that follows off of your false premise can make logical sense.

Demonstrate, please.

Here is the line of succession. Show the break, please, and demonstrate using historical events how God clearly passed authority to the Protestants - demonstrate which Protestants received it, how they passed it on to succeeding generations, and where it is, now.

Thank you.

 

[thecoach]

It’s God’s Church, the one built by Jesus the Christ as He said He would (please recall Matthew 16:18). Like any good family member, I refer to it also as my house as well, as a child would refer to his homoe even though his earthly father built it, because the child knows they belong there as part of the family. I am a child of God our Heavenly Father, with childlike faith in Him. God set things up as He desired, and He told us, and we believe Him. Actually, along my Christian journey, there were times where I had wished God had done things differently, because it’s not always easy following the way He set it up. No matter how difficult though, I’m committed to follow and be a part of His family, so I call His house my house, because I belong there.

No amount of hatred for the Catholic Church by her enemies will change the Truth. It does define, though, whether one abides by what God did and told us, or whether one prefers their own way. We Catholics live on every word from the mouth of God.

Matt 16:18…the ONE verse you all try to build the empire on, does not say that! That is what is so sad.

 

[thecoach]

Demostrate, please.

Here is the line of succession. Show the break, please, and demonstrate using historical events how God clearly passed authority to the Protestants - demonstrate which Protestants received it, how they passed it on to succeeding generations, and where it is, now.

Thank you.

We dont want it…since succession is a fallacy.

 

[jmcrae]

We dont want it…since succession is a fallacy.

Use history and Scripture to prove it.

You can begin by explaining how in John 21:15-19, Jesus is not making Peter to be the chief shepherd (aka Pope) of the Church.

(Don’t merely assert that He is not doing this. Explain what He is doing, if not that, and show using examples from early Church history how the early Church understood it the same way as you do.)

While you’re at it, another thing you can explain is what Jesus meant to be doing when He alluded to the succession of Davidic Prime Ministers in Isaiah 22:22, in Matthew 16:18-19, if not that the Petrine Office is intended to take successors.

Thanks!

 

[minkymurph]

How many Catholics feel that in an “ideal” society, their church should have the authority to suppress non-Catholic religions and impose their beliefs onto others?

In an ideal society there would be no need for anyone to impose their beliefs on anyone else as we would all agree. I think that ideal society is called heaven. Imposing beliefs on others is a difficult one. I believe conversion by force is wrong as it is not a true conversion and Our Lord did not condone conversion by force. In terms of law, we are presented with more of a dilemha as we must respect the free will of other individuals; God respects this, however that does not mean society can allow others to murder or commit suicide of their own free will. I know that is as extreme example but I’m using it to illustrate. In my personal experience, I’ve never that found Christians of different denominations disagree to a great extent on legislation, although there are of course extremes. I’m not really sure what you mean by supressing other religions and imposing beliefs on others. Can you enlarge a little?

 

[MDK]

Matt 16:18…the ONE verse you all try to build the empire on, does not say that! That is what is so sad.

My Catholic bretheren, as we know, Holy Spirit inspired Scripture in Matthew 16:18 is simply one passage describing God’s Word and we use the entire picture without distorting the Word of God as the Church, the pillar and ground of truth protects Oral Tradition and Written Tradition. I’ve seen the faulty exegesis of the one quoted above before. Why should we believe one who behaves as though there were a giant log in their eye? I think we all know the answer. Matthew 16:18 clearly shows Christ as the builder, and not just any other man.
Holy Spirit inspired author and Catholic St. Matthew:

from Matthew 16:16-20 (Douay Rheims) 16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20 Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

Please see the DRB online for further detail regarding verses 18 and 19.

 

[Aydan]

actually I enjoy having these Protestants here with us it keeps me up on their latest interpretations and latest argument against the church so I don’t fall victim to them. It’s funny about the my Bible argument because the coach claims he’s never heard it but yet he used it in one of his previous posts. Because he said I read “my Bible” and how can you call your Bible “the Bible” when Protestants have removed books because they claim that they are not really part of the Bible so I think calling it the Bible is highly inaccurate because I know that was one thing that really surprised me when I came back home and actually learned what it means to be Catholic because I was not raised in the faith and one of the most shocking things I found was that Protestants had actually taken books out of the Bible I was stunned. So every time I hear arguments like these it just shows me again and again I’ve made the right decision by coming home.

So opened you feel a need to come to a Catholic forum to convince yourself you made the right decision.

 

[MDK]

actually I enjoy having these Protestants here with us it keeps me up on their latest interpretations and latest argument against the church so I don’t fall victim to them. It’s funny about the my Bible argument because the coach claims he’s never heard it but yet he used it in one of his previous posts. Because he said I read “my Bible” and how can you call your Bible “the Bible” when Protestants have removed books because they claim that they are not really part of the Bible so I think calling it the Bible is highly inaccurate because I know that was one thing that really surprised me when I came back home and actually learned what it means to be Catholic because I was not raised in the faith and one of the most shocking things I found was that Protestants had actually taken books out of the Bible I was stunned. So every time I hear arguments like these it just shows me again and again I’ve made the right decision by coming home.

God bless you, and glad you’re home in the house of the living God, built by the only begotten Son our Redeemer. We have a Father, who is our Ultimate, True and Real Father. We have the Spirit of Sonship, the Spirit of Life. It wouldn’t be a family without our mother whom God created, who as the Queen mother of Jesus the King, sits at the right hand of our brother Jesus the Christ in Heaven. Those who do the will of the Father are brother and sister to Jesus the King, High Priest and Eternal Perfect Sacrifice. Those who attack God’s Church and the infallible teachings, act as neighborhood bully, and unfortunately risk being forsaken.

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Some of my mother’s family lived through it, so I think I know what took place.

Jews in Spain were told they had to become Catholics. They were told this by the monarchs, Ferdinand and Isabella (yemach shemo/shemam)…some converted due to coercion, and simply kept being Jewish in secret.

When this was found out, these Jews (which your church now saw as “Catholics” even though they were converted by force) were then subject to the Spanish Inquisition.

Sorry to jump into the middle of a conversation by commenting on this old post, but I wanted to clarify one thing. The Jews were not told they had to convert. What happened was, it was declared that Spain was a Catholic country and only Catholics could live there.

Non Catholics had a choice. They could either convert or leave. That is different than saying they were forced to convert.

 

[jmcrae]

Sorry to jump into the middle of a conversation by commenting on this old post, but I wanted to clarify one thing. The Jews were not told they had to convert. What happened was, it was declared that Spain was a Catholic country and only Catholics could live there.

Non Catholics had a choice. They could either convert or leave. That is different than saying they were forced to convert.

And I am still trying to figure out why they went to other Catholic countries, instead of to the Middle East, or to countries in Africa or Asia that didn’t have any religious affiliation at that time.

 

[Kaninchen]

And I am still trying to figure out why they went to other Catholic countries, instead of to the Middle East, or to countries in Africa or Asia that didn’t have any religious affiliation at that time.

Yes, they could have all just have caught a plane out of there and settled Japan.

Have you not considered the problems of moving families (especially poorer families) in the Late Middle Ages/Early Modern Age?

 

[MDK]

And I am still trying to figure out why they went to other Catholic countries, instead of to the Middle East, or to countries in Africa or Asia that didn’t have any religious affiliation at that time.

Some of those accused actually blasphemed in secular court in order to get their case moved to an ecclesiastical court, which they knew they would get a fair hearing. They seemed to trust the Church more than the government.

 

[Aydan]

amen to that! Thank you MDK it feels good to be home!

God bless you, and glad you’re home in the house of the living God, built by the only begotten Son our Redeemer. We have a Father, who is our Ultimate, True and Real Father. We have the Spirit of Sonship, the Spirit of Life. It wouldn’t be a family without our mother whom God created, who as the Queen mother of Jesus the King, sits at the right hand of our brother Jesus the Christ in Heaven. Those who do the will of the Father are brother and sister to Jesus the King, High Priest and Eternal Perfect Sacrifice. Those who attack God’s Church and the infallible teachings, act as neighborhood bully, and unfortunately risk being forsaken.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, they could have all just have caught a plane out of there and settled Japan.

During the Crusades, people travelled from Edinburgh to Jerusalem on foot. Why could they not get there from Spain? (Didn’t the Highlanders travel through Spain to get to Jerusalem? Isn’t the reason we have black eyes and hair today, because they brought back Spanish wives with them, on the return journey?)

 

[Aydan]

as much as you don’t want to believe it most of us Catholics respect Billy Graham I do I don’t agree with everything he says or his church teaches but I still respect the man and I certainly don’t believe he’s the false prophet. I would like to remind my brother and sisters who are Catholic it is better to have people believe in Christ as Protestants rather than having them not believe in him at all. And I must say I have to disagree with your signature some ProtestantsI know did everything they could to keep me from joining the Catholic Church. And I get told that I’m not a true Christian by Protestants all the time is that not persecution?

Indeed…what the other poster said is just another sterling Catholic example

 

[Kaninchen]

During the Crusades, people travelled from Edinburgh to Jerusalem on foot. Why could they not get there from Spain? (Didn’t the Highlanders travel through Spain to get to Jerusalem?

Yes, certainly, entire families - grandparents, parents, children could have just walked off to Jerusalem.

Isn’t the reason we have black eyes and hair today, because they brought back Spanish wives with them, on the return journey?)

I’ve not noticed too many people with black eyes unless they’ve been in a fight, they’re usually blue, brown, green.

Black hair and brown eyes have been around Europe since before the Celts, Germans and Slavs brought blue eyes and blond hair.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, certainly, entire families - grandparents, parents, children could have just walked off to Jerusalem.

England, France, Germany, etc. were closer?

 

[peary]

If it had happened to your family, maybe you’d get “animated” too. Isn’t that like asking why European Jews “get so animated” over what the Nazis did to them?

And if the Spanish Inquisition “might not” have happened, why did Pope John Paul 2 apologize for it in 2000 publicly, on behalf of the whole Catholic religion?

Why did he also go to Israel, to the Western Wall, and put a paper containing a prayer asking for forgiveness for it as well?

My grandmother had 11 brothers and sisters in Poland. 4 of them came to the United States. The rest stayed behind. 4 entire families were murdered in the concentration camps - 40 people in all for no reason. This left a bitter legacy with all of us, but we don’t ‘obsess’ about it. Life goes on.