How many Catholics think this way?

[Sepharad]

Qui est cie,

You asked if I am “'still suffering from the Spanish Inquisition”. Actually, I only learned of this in the last year or so, which is probably why its so fresh in my mind.

For my whole life, I knew something was “different” about some of my mom’s family…the closest family members ( as opposed to the more distant members, who were more traditionally Catholic) did not act like typical Catholics…they refused to eat pork, lit candles on Friday night, tied red strings on new cars, homes, they bought…I always thought it meant Italians and Jews were the same thing, because of these similarities.

Then a cousin researched our family tree, even went to Italy and Spain to do more in-depth research, and he brought back much evidence that our family descended from “marranos”, or Jews forced to convert but kept practicing Jewish rituals in secret (eventually, over the centuries, the reason for the rituals became lost, yet the rituals endured.)

I finally decided to have a genealogical mitochondrial DNA test done by a genealogical laboratory, to end any questions this genealogical research had brought up. I wanted to know for sure about my ancestry.

The test results showed that on my mother’s mother’s side, they were of Sephardic descent, from the Iberian Peninsula, originally from the Near East. So the research was correct. But now I had to face the fact that part of my family did in fact suffer abuses via the Spanish Catholic monarchs and the Spanish Inquisition. A part of Jewish history which I’d always thought I had nothing to do with, I find out my ancestors had everything to do with. My cousin even found the family names of my mother’s family on the list of Jews expelled from Spain at the time of the Edict of Expulsion in 1492.

This has put a very personal angle on a sad event in history for me, and it is relatively new for me too. I’m not asking for sympathy, just understanding.

 

[qui_est_ce]

This has put a very personal angle on a sad event in history for me, and it is relatively new for me too. I’m not asking for sympathy, just understanding.

You have gotten understanding. This thread is not about the Spanish Inquistion. You have been on those threads, discuss it there.

The OP was
*
How many Catholics feel that in an “ideal” society, their church should have the authority to suppress non-Catholic religions and impose their beliefs onto others?*

Whether or not Ferdinand and Isabella were devout Catholics is not for us to judge. You can’t look at history through contemporary lenses. That’s my point.

I mean, I only recently found out I’m related to St. Joan of Arc! And she was burned at the stake by members of my co-religious! Am I angry? Hurt? In pain? No. Joan was very brave. My parish is even St. Joan of Arc!!

If you feel personally hurt because you just found out they’re your ancestors, that’s your right. But I don’t think this thread is the place to vent your anger with the Catholic Church over actions of some of her members hundreds of years ago.

PS, you mentioned you are probably the only Orthodox Jew of you generation to go to a Tradional Catholic Latin mass, and you found it very reverant and beautiful. Your family felt betrayed by Vatican II You have never been to a Novus Ordo mass. I think you will find it equally reverant, especially when celebrated in the local Cathedral, which in your case would probably be St. Patrick’s. You should try it. You’ll see why the Trads are out to lunch in their attacks against Vat II.

I would like to start a thread to discuss YHWH and the God’s name in the OT, are you up for it?

 

[Claudius]

On another forum, a few posters made comments that I found genuinely disturbing: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=250069

I would like to know how many Catholics truly feel this way? And I’m sure other non-Catholics in addition to myself here would also like to know.

To those Catholics who feel their religion should have the right to suppress non-Catholic religions by law and enforce their religion by law, they need to know that this country…the USA…was founded as a safe haven from that very thing. In fact even Catholics came here, to Maryland, to have a place where they could worship God as they saw fit.

How many Catholics feel that in an “ideal” society, their church should have the authority to suppress non-Catholic religions and impose their beliefs onto others?

Objective Reality. If you don’t know what it means then look it up.

In Objective Reality we know that certain things are true and other things, even if we can imagine them to be true, just are not true. Catholicism is the One True Religion. That being the case, for someone to promote a Non Catholic religion involves telling a lie of one kind or another. This lie can be as simple as “there is a goddess living in my back yard and she demands that you worship her”. In this case, there isn’t much to do but encourage the family to get the person to seek professional help. The lie can be much more complex and damaging such as what protestants say “you much win God’s favor by killing Catholics and stealing everything that they have.” In this case, yes, the government should have the full power and ability to supress this. Libel charges should be pressed, (because we all know protestants lie about the imagined evil deads of all Catholics) Children should be taken away and these kinds of people should be put in prison where no one will hear them.

Why am I so harse? Let me think… the 6 million dead Jews in Germany pushed me this way.

Why do I targed protestants? because… they lie habitually, it is almost like a kind of institutionlized lying. Oh, and they killed 6 million Jews in Germany. They killed 2 milliion Catholics in the peasants war. If legitimate government leaders had known that Luther was calling for action that would lead to the slaughter of 2 million people simply because they were poor and faithful, he would never have been given a chance to nail his 95 thesis to the door, his hands would have been nailed to it instead and he would have been outcast and the worst kind of public sinner.

But you say that was long ago…maybe but protestants still go around burning crosses in people’s front yards. The protestants still haven’t learned their lesson, they never will. Their faith system calls for the destruction of God’s One and Only Legitimate Church. They are against God.

Then we hear about what the protestants in the United States Congress want to do. They want to make it legal for cops to stop drivers that they suspect of driving while Catholic. They want to pass laws that would require over 50% of the Catholics in the United States to carry ID cards with them that have microchips that can be located by GPS. Next we only need to hear about the recruitment of the execution squads and we have Germany all over again. Except instead of 6 million Jews, now they want to kill off 100million Catholics.

I know what you are thinking… Yes I really believe this. I think that protestants mean what they say. I take a quick look at what they say and what they do and this is exaclty what I see. There was even a case where an official at an airport planted drugs in a Catholics bag supposidly to train the drug sniffing dog. This guy was on his way to Singapore and the dog missed the dope (perhaps on purpose) but the dope was found by the authorities in Singapore. Anyone know what the penalty for drug possession in Signapore is? DEATH. This guy was almost ready to be executed until the official fessed up under pressure. Oh, you didn’t hear about this in the newspaper? Big help they are… you hear all about how pastor Billy Bob in the outback has his little “kill all the Catholics baptist Church” or about how some ten year old kid is against the G8 summit you didn’t hear about this. Yet the Japan Times ran the story, probably because they aren’t run by Protestants.

It should be a criminal offense to harm or discriminate against people based on their religion in any shape or form. However, the religion that people profess must align itself to OBJECTIVE REALITY. It can not be “I just made up the speghetti monster so that I can take more smoke brakes.” The claims of a religion are subject to inspection and need to be verifiable. Catholicism is verifiable. A tenant of a religion must not call for the harming of other people, if it does, then that religion must be surpressed by the government. Religions that make up obious lies about people must also be surpressed by the Government. Religions that are set up to do the exact opposite from the true function of a religion must be surpressed by the government. In all these cases I think that protestantism is a completely false religion that must be surpressed.

That is what I think. If you think I am being too hard, tell it to the 42 scars the protestants gave me or to my two children that I can never hold again.

 

[Claudius]

Man this is why people need to learn to read LATIN.

EXACT NUMBER OF PEOPLE KILLED IN THE INQUISITION

)

(ZERO)

If any of you could read Latin you would already know that.

Were people deported, yes, Tortured, yes Killed, no not a one.

And besides, calling for the deaths of 90% of the population of Europe (like Luther did) should be a Criminal offnse punishible by LIFE IN PRISON with zero possibility for porole. Freedom of speech is great and all but I think we call all see that there is a reason limit that need be applied.

 

[Sepharad]

I read angry, hateful posts like those of Claudius, and then I reflect on comments like this, which came from a Jewish rabbi on an email list I’m on (he was responding to someone–not me, in case you’re wondering— who had mentioned the sufferings Jews have faced from the medieval church):
I would suggest that we have not suffered from Catholicism, nor from any other faith tradition. Suffering has been imposed upon us by individual human beings whose understanding of their respective faiths has included a belief that everyone must share their beliefs. Those who administered the Spanish Inquisition would have been just as harsh and intolerant if they had been Muslims or, for that matter, Jews. It was not Catholicism (or any other faith tradition) which oppressed us, but the spirit of intolerance. As Rebbe Nahman of Breslov, no stranger to the pain of intolerance, teaches, “The Ru’ah haKodesh shouts also through the tales of the gentiles.”

 

[Lapell]

I reflect on comments like this, which came from a Jewish rabbi on an email list I’m on (he was responding to someone–not me, in case you’re wondering— who had mentioned the sufferings Jews have faced from the medieval church):

Wow… this certainly is a golden saying.
Nota bene: Ru’ah haKodesh is hebrew for the Holy Spirit.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I read angry, hateful posts like those of Claudius, and then I reflect on comments like this, which came from a Jewish rabbi {snip}

There are 109 posts on this thread. Claudius has two. I have no idea of what he’s talking. 2/109=2%. So 98% have said it was wrong. Why do you focus on him, and not the 98% who have given you positive responses? If I have a bad experience with a Jewish person (which I have) do I label all Jews that way? No. That would be bigoted.

Look at the charitable responses you got on this thread and ask yourself…

 

[Sepharad]

There are 109 posts on this thread. Claudius has two. I have no idea of what he’s talking. 2/109=2%. So 98% have said it was wrong. Why do you focus on him, and not the 98% who have given you positive responses? If I have a bad experience with a Jewish person (which I have) do I label all Jews that way? No. That would be bigoted.

Look at the charitable responses you got on this thread and ask yourself…

I have responded to many posts in this thread, *as well as *Claudius’ posts. Why are you being so defensive because I replied to his ALSO? Was I only supposed to respond to their posts and not his? I recognize there is good and bad in all people, and in all religions.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I have responded to many posts in this thread, *as well as *Claudius’ posts. Why are you being so defensive because I replied to his ALSO? Was I only supposed to respond to their posts and not his? I recognize there is good and bad in all people, and in all religions.

My point was not to whom you are replying. My point is that at least 98%, the responses probably 100% if I can figure out what Claudius was talking about to your OP

On another forum, a few posters made comments that I found genuinely disturbing: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=250069

How many Catholics feel that in an “ideal” society, their church should have the authority to suppress non-Catholic religions and impose their beliefs onto others?

said they either had never heard of this or did not agree with it. Many said they were just as disturbed as you about that kind of thinking.

The last (most infamous) time when Catholics tried to impose their religion onto others, it ended up being called by history “The Spanish Inquisition”. I’d think Catholics would not want to go that route again, considering that the church still has trouble living it down.

What was the purpose of that little remark?

The Church only has trouble “living down” people’s ignorance regarding the inquisitions.

or this one

**I realize the CC wants to whitewash the whole thing, **

John Paul II brought this up, and apologized for past sins of Christians toward Jews. I don’t see any official effort to whitewash. Joh Paul II brought this up, and apologized for past sins of Christians toward Jews.

Why are you bringing up the following? Is that the real purpose of starting this thread?

but my mother’s family descends from Spanish Jews who WERE compelled to convert or be expelled. Very few did it for the reasons you mentioned, and that leaves one to wonder anyway…those who did do it to improve their financial or economic lot…why did they feel they HAD to do it for those reasons? Were the Spanish Catholics treating Jews differently from Catholics, economically?

I don’t understand why you actively seek out any negative remarks made by Catholics against Jews over the last 2,000 years, post readings and references, etc, yet gloss over the many, many wonderful things that have been written to you on this and the many other threads in which you post. It seems to me you’ve started a thread so you can vent the many offences Catholics have comitted against you and your people. If being defensive means correcting misstatements, then I am guilty. MDK put into words what I see as an agenda:

Are you trying to link the official Catholic Church teachings to prejudice or that it paved the way for Hitler?  Let's be clear and open here, please.  If so, do you think that is in keeping with God's eighth commandment not to bear false witness?  If you're honest here, {snip}I think you'll admit that you're trying to blame or discredit the Catholic Church, rather than discuss individual or state behaviors.  If so, you seek to discredit the Catholic Church unjustly.  The Inquisition doesn't discredit the Church, but includes discussion about poor behaviors.  For instance, did the Catholic Church teachings include that Jews were inferior?  Kind of odd, considering that the Son of God came as a Jewish man, and our first pope was Jewish by birth.

It just appears odd to me that a Jewish person would come to a Catholic Forum, and commence posting all the injustices and hateful things some Catholics have said and done and then want to know if other Catholics here agree with them. Are you disappointed that we are not all bigots? 98% said we do not agree with the statement.

Catholics LOVE JEWS, we love our Jewish inheritance. Salvation comes from the Jews!

 

[Sepharad]

I am happy when I meet Catholics who do not hate Jews…because too often in my lifetime and in our history, they were not always so charitable toward us.

So when I do meet some, I am glad, relieved, even! I am glad that in these modern times, less Catholics appear to be antisemitic. I think Nostra Aetate had a lot to do with that.

 

[Lapell]

I am happy when I meet Catholics who do not hate Jews…because too often in my lifetime and in our history, they were not always so charitable toward us.

So when I do meet some, I am glad, relieved, even! I am glad that in these modern times, less Catholics appear to be antisemitic. I think Nostra Aetate had a lot to do with that.

 

[Claudius]

Ah Now I see where this thread was intended.

First, just so everyone knows, being Catholic and hating Jews are mutually exclusive. You can not do both. Why? Because hating Jews gets you excommunicated.

I have personally never meet a Catholic who hated Jews.

I have meet Jews who hated me. The word Goy comes to mind. Just because WWII happened does not give every Jewish guy from a poor neighborhood the excuse to be racist against everyone else. Racism is wrong no matter who does it. I have enough to worry about with Billy Bob Baptist burning Crosses in my front yard and don’t need to be hearing Goy thrown around. I understand enough Hebrew to know what it means.

Disagreeing with the State of Israel when they do Objectively bad things does not make a person Anti-Semetic. Catholicism is a Semetic Religion. Our first Liturgical Language was Syriac and it continues to be used by most Semetic Catholics to this day. Catholics worship a Jewish man as GOD. I could argue that random protestant 5673 who hates Catholics is Anti-Semetic because Catholicism is a Semetic Religion. Israel was WRONG to expell the Catholics. They are still wrong for not allowing Catholics to return. They are wrong for occupying our Churches and for desecrating our sanctuaries. This is objectively wrong, only someone who is blindly anti-Catholic or blindly Pro-Israel will not see that.

Disagreeing with Israel does not make a person Anti-Semetic or Anti-Jewish. I could hardly hold all Jews responsible for this, just those who did it or who agree with it.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation about the Spanish Inquisition floting around here. Inquisitions are not bad things in and of themselves. The way the Spanish Inquisition was conducted was wrong, not the fact of the Inquisition in and of itself. On top of that, the documents of the Inquisition are public record. Why would anyone listen to fables and gross Anti-Catholic exagerations when they can just go and READ the documents that exist? Answer, because no body wants to. They want to believe the lie to attack Catholics and call for the Killing of Catholics.

What was wrong with the Spanish Inquisition? They tortured people. The gave entire towns intense fear at a time.

But, they did not kill anyone. The expelled people from Spain, they siezed property, they tortured, the separated families and they impossed sever mental damage but they did not kill anyone. Now, they didn’t have to kill anyone to be going completely outside the limits of what they were allowed to do. They broke those limits many times and were called to task by the Pope. Don’t believe me… Then learn Latin and read the Documents for yourself. Or better yet, show me one piece of proof tha the black legend invented in England at a time when they were at war with Spain is true. If we actually look at Spain’s record and the record of the Protestant kingdoms, most notably English, we will see that Spain was the much better place to be. English slaughter Catholics and Jews publically for entertainment and the killings went into the Houndreds in a day and the thousands in a year. This is public record. Spain’s hands are remarkably clean compared to England. But everyone wants to see England as Good and Catholics as bad, so you lie. Shame on you if you do that.

And I do stand by what I wrote earlier. Government should supress fake religions that preach violence, racism and hate. If only it were possible for Catholics to burn people at the stake (which it never has been.) then Martin Luther would have been a great candidate. How did he get away with killing all the Catholics that he did? Because Catholics are not allowed to kill. If it were true that we could burn people at the stake, Marty boy would and should have been toast. But Catholics have never endadged in that practice and so the harm of the protestant deformation was impossed upon the world.

Please, if you have a grevence against the Church, let it be something real, not imaginary. Saying "oh the Spanish Inquisiation was … " is an imaginary complaint that is not going to be taken seriously by people like me who sit and read and do research on what actually happened.

Sometimes I meet Jews who don’t Hate me and I am Happy when I do. This is what happens most of the time. But I am still not going to let them lie to me. I know better.

 

[MDK]

I am happy when I meet Catholics who do not hate Jews…because too often in my lifetime and in our history, they were not always so charitable toward us.

I am a cradle Catholic, and have never in my entire life personally encountered a Catholic (either in the priesthood or laity) who hated “the Jews.” Please let me repeat the word never. I have seen many who were upset with the position, belief, or action of someone who happened to be Jewish (just like they would be with any other person from any other background). I have seen Catholics who were upset with the state of Israel (which is not anti-Semetic). I have seen Catholics who are anti-Judaic, in the sense that after the Messiah has come, those Jewish by birth should be with us in the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church as full brethren (This is the exact opposite of anti-Semitic). This is extremely charitable and loving, although those who prefer to practice Judaism may not see it that way…, yet (there will at some point be a corporate conversion of those in Judaism).

(Please note that I used anti-Semitic for emphasis and easy contrast with anti-Judaic. I will go to the correct spelling of antisemitic below.)

I believe the literal meaning of antisemitic is to be against the line of Sem, who is Noah’s firstborn. Sem outlived Abraham, and many scholars believe that Sem was Melchizedek. So, antisemitic is a more broad term than being racially against those who are born into Jewish families. We Catholics are so inextricably tied to our ancestors in faith, that being antisemitic would be like condemning our heritage. Antisemitism is quite simply not a Catholic teaching. Further, Catholicism is opposed to antisemitism. In truth, the best people for you to meet are those who are truly Catholic, and believe in all the Church’s teachings. The true Catholic will love you and pray for your well being (they will also defend the Catholic Church, which is the Body of Christ). It’s those who practice cafeteria Catholicism, along with their first cousins who create and believe man made Christian dogmas, or who are of farce religions that I would be concerned with.

The God of Adam, of Sem, of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the same God that the Catholic Church teaches about and teaches us to worship. It’s not coincidental that much of what you read or heard about Jesus saying and doing was recognizable or similar to what’s in the OT. The OT was a foreshadowing of the real that was to come. For instance, the passover lamb in the OT was a figure of the real Paschal Lamb who is Christ. Jesus did things new as well, that many of His Jewish followers could not accept, and many left Him or simply rejected Him before following. What Jesus said and did were true then are true now, and forever will be true. Jesus established the New and everlasting Covenant, which is the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham for a worldwide blessing. The Catholic Church is part of that fulfillment, and is the place for God’s entire family, Jews and Gentiles. Jesus welcomes us to taste and see. I promise you, there is no one like Him who ever existed as Man, nor could there be, as He was also fully God, begotten by the Father. It’s impossible to fully comprehend such and incredible gift. While some may be impressed with the person who was willing to first try and eat and oyster, I am impressed with those who are truly willing to seek and taste Christ’s Gospel, His Mercy, His Love, and His Body and Blood. As members of His family, we share His Body and Blood.

I will say that we experience Him in a real way, that it’s just a little hard for one to believe that another could reject Him. I think there is an issue of mistrust there, because one doesn’t trust the judgment of the other. Those practicing Judaism believe may believe that Christians can’t be trusted because they are seen to believe falsely. Those practicing Christianity can’t believe how one could have a hardened heart and be blind to the incredible reality we experience in Christ. If the Christian is acting truly Catholic, then they will pray for those who we believe have hardened hearts and/or are temporarily blinded. Others who are either not fully Catholic or who are separated Christians of largely man made faith, or are of farce religions may behave differently with man made prejudices, jealousy, and self justifications.

 

[Sepharad]

You know, I find it extremely hard to believe that some of you have “never” met an antisemitic Catholic. Especially since many Jews of my generation (I am 49), myself included, were physically assaulted as children because we were Jewish, often with the charge of “christ killer” ringing in our ears as we were attacked by Catholic schoolchildren.

Its one thing to say the church is not antisemitic nowadays. But to claim that such Catholics “never” existed? Please, let’s be honest here.

I am more than willing to admit there have been Jews in history who did not like Catholics (though that was usually a reaction against antisemitic treatment from antisemitic Catholics who you had the good fortune to “never” meet, but we had the bad fortune TO meet!)

Can it be that so many Catholics are really this naive? Do you know the things your church has ruled against Jews in history? Have you ever read of the many rulings against Jews by various Popes and church councils? Have you ever heard of the Mortara affair, which brought down the Papal States in Italy?

Have you ever read the “Homilies Against the Jews” by “St” John Chrysostom?

 

[Sepharad]

Do you say none of this is historically true?

The history of your church and its members against the Jews is very, very long, and to deny it is disgraceful.

Do you claim none of this ever happened?

c. 240 Origen of Alexandria writes that the Jews “have committed the most abominable of crimes” in conspiring against Christ, and for that reason “the Jewish nation was driven from its country, and another people was called by God to the blessed election”
248 St. Cyprian writes that the Jews have fallen under the heavy wrath of God, because they have departed from the Lord, and have followed idols
306 The Council of Elvira decrees that Christians and Jews cannot intermarry, have sexual intercourse, or eat together
325 Conversation and fellowship with Jews is forbidden to the clergy by the Council of Nicaea
4th century Christian emperors of Rome decree that Christians converting to Judaism, and Jews obstructing the conversion of other Jews to Christianity, will incur the death penalty; Jews can not marry Christians, or hold public office, or own slaves
c. 380 St. Gregory of Nyssa refers to the Jews as “murderers of the Lord, assassins of the prophets, rebels and detesters of God,… companions of the devil, race of vipers, informers, calumniators, darkeners of the mind, pharisaic leaven, Sanhedrin of demons, accursed, detested,… enemies of all that is beautiful”
c. 380 St. Ambrose calls the synagogue “a place of unbelief, a home of impiety, a refuge of insanity, damned by God Himself”
388 A mob of Christians, at the instigation of their bishop, looted and burned the synagogue in Callinicum, a town on the Euphrates. The Emperor Theodosius wants those responsible punished and the synagogue rebuilt at the expense of the bishop, but St. Ambrose, the bishop of Milan, pressures him to relent and condone the action
400 St. Augustine writes: “the Church admits and avows the Jewish people to be cursed, because after killing Christ they continue to till the ground of an earthly circumcision, an earthly Sabbath, an earthly passover, while the hidden strength or virtue of making known Christ, which this tilling contains, is not yielded to the Jews while they continue in impiety and unbelief, for it is revealed in the New Testament. While they will not turn to God, the veil which is on their minds in reading the Old Testament is not taken away… the Jewish people, like Cain, continue tilling the ground, in the carnal observance of the law, which does not yield to them its strength, because they do not perceive in it the grace of Christ”
c. 400 Calling the synagogue “brothel and theater” and “a cave of pirates and the lair of wild beasts,” St. John Chrysostom writes that “the Jews behave no better than hogs and goats in their lewd grossness and the excesses of their gluttony”
413 A group of monks sweep through Palestine, destroying synagogues and massacring Jews at the Western Wall
414 St. Cyril of Alexandria expels Jews from his city
425 Jews are required by law to observe Christian feasts and fasts and to listen to sermons designed to persuade them to convert
442 The synagogue in Constantinople is turned into a church
529-553 The Code of the emperor Justinian decrees that in Christian Byzantine society Jews cannot read their sacred books in Hebrew in their synagogues, and the Mishnah and other rabbinic interpretations are banned
538 The Third Synod of Orléans decrees that Jews cannot show themselves in the streets during Passover Week
591 Pope St. Gregory the Great decrees that Jews are not to be forced into baptism “lest they return to their former superstition and die the worse for having been born again”
600 Pope St. Gregory the Great decrees that Jews should not have excessive freedom, but also “in no way should they suffer a violation of their rights”
681 The Synod of Toledo orders the burning of the Talmud and other books
768 Pope Stephen IV decries ownership of hereditary estates by “the Jewish people, ever rebellious against God and derogatory of our rites”
c. 830 Agobard, Archbishop of Lyons, writes anti-Jewish pamphlets in which he refers to Jews as “sons of darkness”
c. 937 Pope Leo VII encourages his newly appointed archbishop of Mainz to expel all Jews who refuse to be baptized
c. 1010-1020 In Rouen, Orléans, Limoges, Mainz, and probably also in Rome, Jews are converted by force, massacred, or expelled
1050 The Synod of Narbonne decrees that Christians are not permitted to live in Jewish homes
c. 1070 Pope Alexander II warns the bishops of Spain to prevent violence against the Jews because, unlike the Saracens, they “are prepared to live in servitude”
1078 The Synod of Gerona decrees that Jews must pay the same taxes as Christians to support the church
1081 Pope Gregory VII writes to King Alphonso of Spain telling him that if he allows Jews to be lords over Christians, he is oppressing the Church and exalting “the Synagogue of Satan”
1084 Rüdiger, bishop of Speyer, grants the Jews a charter allowing them to keep Christian servants and serfs, own fields and vineyards, and carry arms
1096 Massacres of Jews takes place in the First Crusade, destroying entire Jewish communities in Mainz, Speyer, Worms, Cologne and other cities. The Jewish chronicler reports: “The enemies stripped them naked and dragged them off, granting quarter to none, save those few who accepted baptism. The number of the slain was eight hundred in these two days.” The chronicler Guibert de Nogent reports that the Rouen Crusaders said: “We desire to go and fight God’s enemies in the East; but we have before our eyes certain Jews, a race more inimical to God than any other”
1182 Jews are expelled from France, all their property is confiscated, and Christians’ debts to them are cancelled with the payment of one-fifth of their value to the treasury
1190 The Third Crusade, led by Richard the Lion-Heart, stirs anti-Jewish fervor and results in the mass suicide of the York Jews in Clifford’s Tower on March 16
1198 Jews are allowed to return to France
1199 Pope Innocent III decrees that Jews are to be allowed to worship in their synagogues, they are not to be coerced into baptism, and that Jewish cemeteries are not to be mutilated
1215 The Fourth Lateran Council decrees that Jews are to wear distinctive clothing, and on the three days before Easter they are not to go out in public
1222 The Council of Oxford prohibits the construction of new synagogues
1227 The Council of Narbonne orders Jews to wear a round patch
1230 Jews in France are forbidden to lend money on interest
1234 The Council of Arles orders Jews to wear a round patch
1235 Thirty-four Jews are burned to death in Fulda on a blood-libel charge
1246 The Council of Béziers orders Jews to wear a round patch

 

[Sepharad]

CONTINUED…

1247 Pope Innocent IV defends the Jews: “they are wrongly accused of partaking of the heart of a murdered child at the Passover… Whenever a corpse is found somewhere, it is to the Jews that the murder is wickedly imputed. They are persecuted on the pretext of such fables… they are deprived of trial and of regular judgment; in mockery of all justice, they are stripped of their belongings, starved, imprisoned and tortured”
1254 The Council of Albi orders Jews to wear a round patch
1260 The Council of Arles orders Jews to wear a round patch, but not when traveling
1267 The Synod of Vienna decrees that Christians cannot attend Jewish ceremonies, and Jews cannot dispute with simple Christian people about the Catholic religion
1267 The Synod of Breslau decrees compulsory ghettos for Jews
1267 Pope Clement IV instructs the Franciscans and Dominicans to deal with the “new Christians” who had reverted to Judaism
c. 1270 St. Thomas Aquinas writes that the Jews sin more in their unbelief than do pagans because they have abandoned the way of justice “after knowing it in some way”
1272 Pope Gregory X defends the Jews: “It happens sometimes that Christians lose their children and that the enemies of the Jews accuse them of having kidnaped and killed these children in order to offer sacrifices with their heart and blood, and it also happens that the parents themselves, or other Christians who are enemies to the Jews, hide the children and attack the Jews, demanding of them, as ransom, a certain sum of money, on the entirely false pretext that these children had been kidnaped and killed by the Jews”
1275 Jews in England are forbidden to lend money on interest
1279 The Synod of Ofen decrees that Christians cannot sell or rent real estate to Jews
1283 Jews in France are forbidden to live in the countryside
1284 The Council of Nîmes orders Jews to wear a round patch
1289 The Council of Vienna orders Jews to wear a round patch
1290 Jews are expelled from England and southern Italy
1294 Jews in France are restricted to special quarters of the cities
1294 Jews are expelled from Bern
1298 The Jews of Röttingen, charged with profaning the Host, are massacred and burned down to the last one
1320 The “Shepherds’ Crusade.” A Christian chronicler records: “The shepherds laid siege to all the Jews who had come from all sides to take refuge… the Jews defended themselves heroically… but their resistance served no purpose, for the shepherds slaughtered a great number of the besieged Jews by smoke and by fire… The Jews, realizing that they would not escape alive, preferred to kill themselves… They chose one of their number (and) this man put some five hundred of them to death, with their consent. He then descended from the castle tower with the few Jewish children who still remained alive… They killed him by quartering. They spared the children, whom they made Catholics by baptism”
1326 The Council of Avignon orders Jews to wear a round patch, but not when traveling
1345 King John authorizes his subjects in Liegnitz and Breslau to destroy the Jewish cemeteries in order to use the tombstones to repair the city walls
1347-1350 During the Black Death, Jews are accused of poisoning wells in order to overthrow Christendom, and many thousands of Jews are killed. Pope Clement VI defends the Jews against these charges
1350 Jews are expelled from many parts of Germany
1367 Jews are expelled from Hungary
1368 The Council of Vabres orders Jews to wear a round patch
1381 Jews are expelled from Strasbourg
1394 The expulsion of Jews from France, begun in 1306, is completed with an edict promulgated on the Jewish Day of Atonement
1420 Jews are expelled from Mainz by the archbishop
1421 Jews are expelled from Austria
1424 Jews are expelled from Fribourg and Zurich
c. 1425 Pope Martin V denounces anti-Jewish preaching and forbids the forced baptism of Jewish children under the age of twelve
1426 Jews are expelled from Cologne
1432 Jews are expelled from Saxony
1434 The Council of Basel decrees that Jews cannot obtain academic degrees
1435 King Alfonso orders the Jews of Sicily to attach a round patch to their clothing and over their shops
1438 Jews are expelled from Mainz by the town councilors
1439 Jews are expelled from Augsburg
1453 Jews are expelled from Wurzburg
1454 Jews are expelled from Breslau
1456 Pope Callistus III bans all social communication between Christians and Jews
1462 Jews are expelled from Mainz following a conflict between two candidates for the archepiscopal seat
1467 Jews are expelled from Tlemcen
1471 Jews are expelled from Mainz by the archbishop
1475 The entire Jewish community in Trent, northern Italy, is put to death on the allegation that it had murdered a boy for religious purposes
1485 Jews are expelled from Warsaw and Cracow
1492 After forcing many Jews to be baptized and then referring to them as Marranos (swine), and after an Inquisition in which some 700 Marranos were burnt at the stake for showing signs of “Jewish” taint, Spain expels all Jews from the country
1497 Jews are expelled from Portugal
1519 Jews are expelled from Regensburg
1553 Cardinal Carafa instigates a public burning of copies of the Talmud and other Jewish religious works in a square in Rome
1555-1559 Pope Paul IV restricts Jews to ghettos and decrees that they are to wear distinctive headgear
1566-1572 Pope St. Pius V expels Jews from the Papal States, allowing some to remain in Rome’s ghettos and in Ancona for commercial reasons
1592-1605 Pope Clement VIII includes a ban on all Jewish books in the expanded Index of Forbidden Books
1826 Pope Leo XII decrees that Jews are to be confined to ghettos and their property is to be confiscated

 

[Sepharad]

CONTINUED…

1858 Edgardo Mortara, 6-year old son of a Jewish family in Bologna, is abducted by the papal police and brought to Rome. He had been secretly baptized five years earlier by a domestic servant who thought he was about to die. The parents try to get the boy back, and there is a universal outcry, but Pope Pius IX rejects all petitions submitted to him
1904 In an interview with Zionist leader Theodor Hertzl, Pope St. Pius X says: “I know, it is disagreeable to see the Turks in possession of our Holy Places. We simply have to put up with it. But to sanction the Jewish wish to occupy these sites, that we cannot do… The Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people… If you go to Palestine and your people settle there, you will find us clergy and churches ready to baptize you all”
1919 Newly independent Poland passes a law making Sunday a compulsory day of rest in Poland. The law is intended to force Jews to observe the Christian sabbath in addition to their own
1921 Speaking for Pope Benedict XV, a Vatican spokesman informed representatives of the Zionist Movement htat they did not wish to assist “the Jewish race, which is permeated with a revolutionary and rebellious spirit” to gain control over the Holy Land
1925 At a conference of Catholic academicians in Innsbruck, Austria, Bishop Sigismund Waitz calls the Jews an “alien people” who had corrupted England, France, Italy, and especially America
1933 In a series of Advent sermons, Cardinal Faulhaber of Munich defends the Old Testament against Nazi attacks but emphasizes that it is not his intention to defend contemporary Jewry, saying that a distinction has to be drawn between Jews living before and after the crucifixion of Jesus
1933 In a pastoral letter on January 23, Bishop Johannes Maria Gföllner of Linz, Austria, declares that while the radical anti-Semitism preached by Nazism is completely incompatible with Christianity, it is the right and duty of Christians to fight and break the harmful influences of Jewry in all areas of modern cultural life. The Austrian episcopate condemns the letter in December for causing racial hatred and conflict
1933-1939 The general consensus among the Catholic papers in Poland is that Jewish influence should be reduced in all areas of life, that the Polish and Jewish communities should be separated as much as possible, and that the most desirable option is mass emigration of the Jews from Poland. St. Maximilian Kolbe is an active promoter of antisemitic literature
1935-1936 The Polish Catholic Church gives full support to a government policy encouraging Jewish emigration from Poland
1936 Cardinal August Hlond, the primate of Poland, issues a pastoral letter, stating: “I warn you against that ethical attitude that is fundamentally and uncompromisingly anti-Jewish. It is contradictory to Catholic ethics. It is permissible to love your nation more than others, but it is not permissible to hate anyone. Not even the Jews… You should close yourselves to the harmful influence of Jewry… But you may not attack Jews, beat them, hurt them, slander them. In a Jew you should also respect and love a human being and your neighbor”
1937 Austrian bishop Alois Hudal publishes a book defending Nazi racial ideology, supporting laws preventing a flood of Jewish immigrants, and criticizing the “Jewish” press for playing off Austrians against Germans. His book receives the support of Archbishop (later Cardinal) Theodor Innitzer of Vienna
1938 In a speech before Belgian pilgrims, Pope Pius XI denounces antisemitism and says: “Spiritually we are all Semites.” His comments are reported in various newspapers but not in the Vatican’s L’Osservatore Romano
1939 Josef Tiso, a Catholic priest with a doctorate in theology, became president of independent Slovakia. An extremist hater of Jews, he allied Slovakia with Nazi Germany and, with strong objections from the Vatican, deported most Slovakian Jews to their deaths in the camps. He declared: “It is a Christian action to expel the Jews, because it is for the good of the people, which is thus getting rid of its pests.” Monsignor Tiso was executed after the war as a war criminal
1941-1945 The “Final Solution” takes place in Nazi-occupied Europe. This Holocaust, the killing of some six million Jews, “happened in the ‘heartland’ of Western Christian Europe… It happened with the passive acquiescence or active collaboration of most European Christians, and no decisive protest from church leadership, Catholic or protestant” (Rosemary Radford Ruether)
1941 In Croatia, Bishop Ivan Saric of Sarajevo appropriates Jewish property for his own use. His diocesan newspaper declares that “Jewish greed increases. The Jews have led Europe and the world towards disaster, moral and economic disaster. Their appetite grows till only domination of the whole world will satisfy it.” Bishop Aksamovic of Djakovic teaches that “today it is the sacred duty of every citizen to prove his Aryan origins.” Meanwhile, Archbishop Aloys Stepinac of Zagreb preaches in a sermon that “it is forbidden to exterminate Gypsies and Jews because they are said to belong to an inferior race”
1941 Provost Bernard Lichtenberg of Berlin’s St. Hedwig Cathedral publicly declares that he will include Jews in his daily prayers. On October 23 he is arrested and sent to Dauchau, but dies on the way
1941 The German Bishops’ Conference issues a pastoral letter secretly distributed and read from all pulpits. It outlines in detail the Nazi assault on the Catholic Church, but makes no mention of the Jews
1941 In Operational Situation Report USSR No. 54, the German Einsatzgruppen A reports from Kaunas, Lithuania: “The attitude of the Church regarding the Jewish question is, in general, clear. In addition, Bishop Brisgys has forbidden all clergymen to help Jews in any form whatsoever. He rejected several Jewish delegations who approached him personally and asked for his intervention with the German authorities. In the future he will not meet with any Jews at all”
1942 The French Assembly of Cardinals and Archbishops sends a letter to Marshal Pétain, head of the Vichy government, protesting against the mass arrests and cruel treatment of the French Jews
1942 Protest against the persecution of Dutch Jews is read from the pulpit of all churches in Holland
1942 In August and September, messages to be read out in their churches protesting the deportation of Jews from France are written by Archbishop Saliège of Toulouse, Bishop Théas of Montauban, Bishop Delay of Marseilles, Cardinal Gerlier of Lyon, Bishop Vanstenbergher of Bayonne, and Archbishop Moussaron of Albi
1942 Great Britain, the Polish Government-in-exile, Brazil, the United States, and Uruguay press Pope Pius XII to condemn the Nazi treatment of Jews. The Pope responds to this international appeal with his Christmas radio address, but does not specifically mention the Jews
1942-1945 Cardinal Adolf Bertram, Archbishop of Breslau and head of the German Bishops’ Conference, opposes all public protest against the deportation and massacre of the Jews. He maintains a cordial relationship with Hitler, and in May 1945 he orders requiem masses for Hitler be offered in all his parishes
1943 At their annual meeting in Fulda, the German Catholic bishops debate whether to speak out about the Holocaust and confront Hitler with a direct accusation. They decide not to do so
1943 Slovakia’s Catholic Bishops protest the deportation of Jews in a pastoral letter read in Latin from the pulpits. Many priests refuse to read it or insert their own negative comments
1945 Addressing the College of Cardinals after the end of the European war, Pope Pius XII speaks of the hundreds of priests and religious who died in Nazi concentration camps, but makes no mention of the Jews
1965 The Second Vatican Council issues its Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions: “True, authorities of the Jews and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ; still, what happened in His passion cannot be blamed upon all the Jews then living, without distinction, nor upon the Jews of today… The Jews should not be presented as repudiated or cursed by God… The Church decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone”
1967 The Catholic bishops in the United States establish an Office on Catholic-Jewish Relations, and promptly issues Guidelines for Catholic-Jewish Relations
1967 In an interview with a Los Angeles rabbi, Cardinal Frings of Cologne, Germany, states that the Jews had been economically too powerful in the 1920s, and he doubts if six million Jews had actually been killed under Hitler.

(INCIDENTALLY, THE ROUND CLOTH PATCH THAT THE CHURCH REQUIRED JEWS TO WEAR IN THE MIDDLE AGES, TO DISTINGUISH THEM FROM CATHOLICS, IS WHERE HITLER GOT THE IDEA TO MAKE JEWS IN MORE MODERN TIMES WEAR A CLOTH YELLOW STAR PATCH TO DISTINGUISH THEM FROM ‘ARYANS’).

And finally, this article might interest you:

ushmm.org/research/center/church/persecution/

 

[Julianna]

Sepharad…I haven’t met any Catholics that hated Jews either.

I believe in the separation of church and state as it applies to the USA. I would not want a theocracy. The hard-line folks on this board would label me a liberal, a radical liberal…and my favorite is…E=mc2 I have the ability to think for myself. I would not want to live in a country where one religion made all the rules. IMHO

 

[Aydan]

Shepherd in my opinion you have missed the entire point of this post. The point of it was to say that any true Catholic could not be anti-Semitic. Of course there are some who claim to be Catholic who are anti-Semitic to be sure but the point is if they hold that view and refuse to come in line with the church then they are not really Catholic to begin with. Not only that the poster is describing his own personal experiences just because he has never experienced a Catholic who hates Jews does not mean that he’s not saying that there aren’t any “Catholics” who are anti-Semitic. Why are you so quick to to distrust everything people say? Why can’t you just except what they have to say at face value? For instance why are you so quick to say that the poster is incorrect when he is telling you about his own experiences? This is something that I cannot understand.

You know, I find it extremely hard to believe that some of you have “never” met an antisemitic Catholic. Especially since many Jews of my generation (I am 49), myself included, were physically assaulted as children because we were Jewish, often with the charge of “christ killer” ringing in our ears as we were attacked by Catholic schoolchildren.

Its one thing to say the church is not antisemitic nowadays. But to claim that such Catholics “never” existed? Please, let’s be honest here.

I am more than willing to admit there have been Jews in history who did not like Catholics (though that was usually a reaction against antisemitic treatment from antisemitic Catholics who you had the good fortune to “never” meet, but we had the bad fortune TO meet!)

Can it be that so many Catholics are really this naive? Do you know the things your church has ruled against Jews in history? Have you ever read of the many rulings against Jews by various Popes and church councils? Have you ever heard of the Mortara affair, which brought down the Papal States in Italy?

Have you ever read the “Homilies Against the Jews” by “St” John Chrysostom?

 

[MDK]

You know, I find it extremely hard to believe that some of you have “never” met an antisemitic Catholic. Especially since many Jews of my generation (I am 49), myself included, were physically assaulted as children because we were Jewish, often with the charge of “christ killer” ringing in our ears as we were attacked by Catholic schoolchildren.

Its one thing to say the church is not antisemitic nowadays. But to claim that such Catholics “never” existed? Please, let’s be honest here.

It’s nice when people actually read what is written, rather than reading into it what they want. It’s obvious that your anger puts a blinding element into your ability to discuss things reasonably. I am being quite honest here. It’s your choice whether to believe the truth or not. Please reread my post as many times as necessary in order to understand what it actually says.