How many Catholics think this way?

[jmcrae]

These 153 countries were where?

Other than the 8-10 Catholic countries in Western Europe, there was Asia (the Near East), Africa, and Eastern Europe. Also, I don’t think Russia had any kind of a state religion, at that time.

 

[lurdes]

O.K., I should have been more specific… my example was not so good… but you must be acquainted with the case of pedophile priests. Or pedophile religious brothers like in Newfoundland years ago. It DOES make a bad reputation to the Catholic Church, doesn’t it?

how about all the pedophile inside the American families which they’re many does that make a bad reputation to the American people? does it mean that every American family have pedophiles or the white supremacy who hate everyone Catholics, blacks, Hispanics even Jews does that reflect all of the USA?

 

[lurdes]

Qui est cie,

You asked if I am “'still suffering from the Spanish Inquisition”. Actually, I only learned of this in the last year or so, which is probably why its so fresh in my mind.

For my whole life, I knew something was “different” about some of my mom’s family…the closest family members ( as opposed to the more distant members, who were more traditionally Catholic) did not act like typical Catholics…they refused to eat pork, lit candles on Friday night, tied red strings on new cars, homes, they bought…I always thought it meant Italians and Jews were the same thing, because of these similarities.

Then a cousin researched our family tree, even went to Italy and Spain to do more in-depth research, and he brought back much evidence that our family descended from “marranos”, or Jews forced to convert but kept practicing Jewish rituals in secret (eventually, over the centuries, the reason for the rituals became lost, yet the rituals endured.)

I finally decided to have a genealogical mitochondrial DNA test done by a genealogical laboratory, to end any questions this genealogical research had brought up. I wanted to know for sure about my ancestry.

The test results showed that on my mother’s mother’s side, they were of Sephardic descent, from the Iberian Peninsula, originally from the Near East. So the research was correct. But now I had to face the fact that part of my family did in fact suffer abuses via the Spanish Catholic monarchs and the Spanish Inquisition. A part of Jewish history which I’d always thought I had nothing to do with, I find out my ancestors had everything to do with. My cousin even found the family names of my mother’s family on the list of Jews expelled from Spain at the time of the Edict of Expulsion in 1492.

This has put a very personal angle on a sad event in history for me, and it is relatively new for me too. I’m not asking for sympathy, just understanding.

do yo also hate the Spanish people? do you hate Spain? or is the Catholic part that you hate? why can you say the Spanish Monarchs? do you think the Iraqui people will refer to Bush as the Baptism American president who came to their country and wage war?

 

[qui_est_ce]

do yo also hate the Spanish people? do you hate Spain? or is the Catholic part that you hate? why can you say the Spanish Monarchs? do you think the Iraqui people will refer to Bush as the Baptism American president who came to their country and wage war?

This is an interesting question because most of the accused requested to be tried by CC Inquisition rather than by state, because CC Inquisition court punishments were much less severe. They were also given a defense lawyer by the CC.

 

[lurdes]

do yo also hate the Spanish people? do you hate Spain? or is the Catholic part that you hate? why can you say the Spanish Monarchs? do you think the Iraqui people will refer to Bush as the Baptist American president who came to their country and wage war?

 

[Matariel]

This is an interesting question because most of the accused requested to be tried by CC Inquisition rather than by state, because CC Inquisition court punishments were much less severe. They were also given a defense lawyer by the CC.

This is also what I have read.

 

[jay29]

Well, I’ve looked at all sides of it, but I doubt the Catholic side is spinning it. After all, a lot of the inquisitors were Roman Catholic Jews. At any rate, I have to admit that this has been one of the lighter areas of my studies of the Church, so I’m sure I do not know as much as a lot of people probably do here.

Seems like this topic comes up ever so often.

Here’s a little primer. I forgot where I picked it up from:

Tomás de Torquemada

At that time the purity of the Catholic Faith in Spain was in great danger from the numerous Marranos and Moriscos, who, for material considerations, became sham converts from Judaism and Mohammedanism to Christianity. The Marranos committed serious outrages against Christianity and endeavoured to judaize the whole of Spain. The Inquisition, which the Catholic sovereigns had been empowered to establish by Sixtus IV in 1478, had, despite unjustifiable cruelties, failed of its purpose, chiefly for want of centralisation. In 1483 the pope appointed Torquemada, who had been an assistant inquisitor since 11 February 1482, Grand Inquisitor of Castile, and on 17 October extended his jurisdiction over Aragon.

Whether Torquemada’s ways of ferreting out and punishing heretics were justifiable is a matter that has to be decided not only by comparison with the penal standard of the fifteenth century, but also, and chiefly, by an inquiry into their necessity for the preservation of Christian Spain. The contemporary Spanish chronicler, Sebastian de Olmedo (Chronicon magistrorum generalium Ordinis Prædicatorum, fol. 80-81) calls Torquemada “the hammer of heretics, the light of Spain, the saviour of his country, the honour of his order”.

 

[lurdes]

This Crabtown Girl gets upset when the history of her birth state is not correct…

Here is a link from a non-Catholic website, I hope that no one will mind the link.

msa.md.gov/msa/mdmanual/01glance/html/name.html

"Maryland’s name honors Queen Henrietta Maria (1609-1669), wife of Charles I (1600-1649), King of Great Britain and Ireland, who signed the 1632 charter establishing the Maryland colony. "

Peace

The Province began as a proprietary colony of the British Lords Baltimore, who wished to create a haven for English Catholics in the new world. and many were devoted to our Lady which they were persecuted for, strangely enough those devoted to our lady they name the new colony "Mary"land they were able to use this name because they maintain their colony was been name for queen Henrietta maria. Although Maryland was an early pioneer of religious toleration in the British colonies, religious strife between Anglicans, Puritans, Catholics, and Quakers was common in the early years, and Puritan rebels briefly seized control of the Province. The Catholicism of the Lords Baltimore would result in seizure of the Province by the Protestant King of England during the Glorious Revolution in 1688. It was restored to the family when Charles Calvert, 5th Baron Baltimore, swore publicly that he was a Protestant.

 

[Lapell]

how about all the pedophile inside the American families which they’re many does that make a bad reputation to the American people? does it mean that every American family have pedophiles or the white supremacy who hate everyone Catholics, blacks, Hispanics even Jews does that reflect all of the USA?

You don’t get my point, do you? In practice, as soon as there are a few Catholic priests who are pedophiles in one country like the USA, the media raise hell against the Catholic Church of USA and against the Catholic Church in general, isn’t it a fact? (Even though not every individual American would the same, that is…)

 

[Kaninchen]

Other than the 8-10 Catholic countries in Western Europe, there was Asia (the Near East), Africa, and Eastern Europe. Also, I don’t think Russia had any kind of a state religion, at that time.

In other words, the 153 was a completely baseless figure.

Meanwhile, just as a matter of interest, what were the 8-10 Catholic countries in Western Europe?

 

[Lapell]

They certainly included Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Germany (before the Reformation, that is!), Austria-Hungary (or were the last three part of the Holy Empire?), probably Poland…

 

[Sepharad]

Which seems as though it would sort of make a person think, “Okay, this isn’t fun - let’s go someplace where they don’t have Catholicism.” Since they had to move anyway, and there were plenty of countries in the world that were not being run according to Catholic law. Yet, instead, they kept going to other Catholic countries.

It doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense, to me.

They did not always go to RC countries, most Sephardic Jews actually went to Egypt and Turkey, because those (Muslim) nations were very tolerant toward Jews at that time.

Some went to Sicily and Italy (my ancestors), but sadly, those places came to be under the rule of Spain only a few years later, and the Sp. Inq. naturally was put into place there too (ditto for Portugal, Mexico, Venezuela and Brazil, other countries Spanish Jews fled to.)

I suspect the reason why some went to other Spanish-speaking countries (or countries with similar languages, like Italy) was so they would have a similar culture and similar language.

 

[Sepharad]

do yo also hate the Spanish people? do you hate Spain? or is the Catholic part that you hate? why can you say the Spanish Monarchs? do you think the Iraqui people will refer to Bush as the Baptism American president who came to their country and wage war?

Did you know that the Spanish, unlike any other Catholic nation, did not base their dislike of Jews solely on their religion, but also held a racial view of Jews? The Spaniards distinguished between “Old Christians” of “pure blood” and “New Christians” (Jewish converts, of “impure blood.”)

More info: jcpa.org/phas/phas-perednik-f03.htm

 

[jmcrae]

In other words, the 153 was a completely baseless figure.

Not at all. The Medieval people believed there were 153 countries in the world (based on something by St. Jerome), so that’s the figure I used - it’s certainly not all that far off, anyway.

Meanwhile, just as a matter of interest, what were the 8-10 Catholic countries in Western Europe?

Italy, Spain, France, England, Scotland, Ireland, Germany, Portugal, Holland, and probably Poland, unless it was EO at that time.

 

[jmcrae]

Did you know that the Spanish, unlike any other Catholic nation, did not base their dislike of Jews solely on their religion, but also held a racial view of Jews? The Spaniards distinguished between “Old Christians” of “pure blood” and “New Christians” (Jewish converts, of “impure blood.”)

Yet, they also canonized St. Teresa of Avila, who was the daughter of a convert from Judaism.

 

[Sepharad]

Yet, they also canonized St. Teresa of Avila, who was the daughter of a convert from Judaism.

Did the Spanish people canonize her, or the church?

 

[jmcrae]

Did the Spanish people canonize her, or the church?

Suddenly, you’re noticing the difference.

Yes, it was the Church who canonized her.

And the Spaniards who were so racist in those days have been dead for a really, really, really long time, now. God has already judged them and sent them to their final destination, where ever that may be.

 

[Sepharad]

Suddenly, you’re noticing the difference.

Yes, it was the Church who canonized her.

And the Spaniards who were so racist in those days have been dead for a really, really, really long time, now. God has already judged them and sent them to their final destination, where ever that may be.

I’ve always noticed the difference, its just that no one was paying attention other than Lapell!

And if you’ll read one of the links I posted, you’ll see that Spaniards to this day are still riddled with what the author calls Judeophobia.

 

[lurdes]

Did you know that the Spanish, unlike any other Catholic nation, did not base their dislike of Jews solely on their religion, but also held a racial view of Jews? The Spaniards distinguished between “Old Christians” of “pure blood” and “New Christians” (Jewish converts, of “impure blood.”)

More info: jcpa.org/phas/phas-perednik-f03.htm

you didn’t answer my question you said you don’t like catholics because the mistreated your ancestor in the Spanish Inquisition but everyone here have giving you prove that it wasn’t the Church it was the Spanish Monarchy who happen to be Catholics, but I see hating the Holy RCC and I was wandering if you hate Spain or the Spanish People since after all it was their King and Queen who started the inquisition, can you tell me if you do hate them too.

 

[lurdes]

Did the Spanish people canonize her, or the church?

how convenient to separate the two and see the difference between the Spaniards and the Church But jet you can’t separate then when it come to accuse them of a crime who was done by the Spanish Monarchy and you insist it was the Church just because they were Catholics:shrug: