How many Christians on this forum read the Quraan?

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Eetaq:

I have 2 new testaments, king james, but to be honest Ive hardly read it. I have read it, just not much.

A better version for those with no knowledge of the Bible might be the RSV - or even the 1985 Jewish Publication Society Tanakh (= OT).​

The KJV (more correctly: the Authorised Version) is not a good Bible to start with unless one is brought up on it. A more modern version is needed, otherwise it can be impossible to understand the books which are devoted to ideas. The AV is OK for the books which tell of actions, such as 1 & 2 Kings or Genesis: it’s not as good for St.Paul’s letters, or for the Psalms, or Job or Proverbs.

I use the New English Bible constantly - it reads well & is quite dignified (in the right places), and is wonderful for the books about ideas. I much prefer it to the New American Bible (with which it is not connected). It is not connected with the RSV either, but is wholly separate from it. ##

 

[kristyn]

I can’t read it as I can’t read Arabic, and that is the only “true” way to read it, right?

 

[Faith101]

kristyn:

I can’t read it as I can’t read Arabic, and that is the only “true” way to read it, right?

Over 80% of Muslims are not arabs…and consequently arabic is not their mother tongue.

Islam was sent to mankind…and the message of the Quran can be understood in all languages.

If you are looking for a good translation of the meanings, you can go to whyislam.org and they will send you a free copy

 

[Pug]

Faith101:

Over 80% of Muslims are not arabs…and consequently arabic is not their mother tongue.

Islam was sent to mankind…and the message of the Quran can be understood in all languages.

If you are looking for a good translation of the meanings, you can go to whyislam.org and they will send you a free copy

Are prayers able to be said in translation, or ought they be spoken in Arabic?

 

[Faith101]

Pug:

Are prayers able to be said in translation, or ought they be spoken in Arabic?

The 5 daily mandatory prayers are to be said in Arabic.

Any supplication, however, can be said in any language.

 

[grotto]

Why is it that Islamic Fascists hold the understanding that the Quraan supports their belief? Do they all have bad translations? Seems like an “iffy” proposition to base a recommendation to believe and follow. Do people have to wear gloves if they are an infidel and touch translated copies or only the Arabic edition? Hmmmmm.

 

[adventistnomore]

grotto:

Why is it that Islamic Fascists hold the understanding that the Quraan supports their belief? Do they all have bad translations? Seems like an “iffy” proposition to base a recommendation to believe and follow. Do people have to wear gloves if they are an infidel and touch translated copies or only the Arabic edition? Hmmmmm.

That tension between th Qu’ran and the “modern world” raises all kinds of questions for devout, moderate. Muslims.

 

[Bobby_A.Greene]

I’ve read the Koran twice. I thought it simplistic. I heard in Arabic that the Koran ryhmes making it a numonic device and easy to memorize; in fact mullahs are suppose to memorize the entire Koran. Yet the Koran struck me as a collection of biased views by an uneducated and working class guy, as if Archie Bunker tried to re-write the Bible.

 

[ncjohn]

I bought a fairly good copy with good commentary to help me understand what I was reading. I am slowly making my way through it, but have only made it through about a dozen suras so far. I’m sure it doesn’t have the same beauty in English as in the original Arabic, just as our English translations of the Bible necessarily diffuse some of the meanings of the original languages, but I do not let that bother me any more than I feel cheated by not being able to read the Greek or Aramaic texts of the Bible.

Although I am Catholic, I recognize that a significant part of the earth’s population is Muslim, and that we share a common background. God promised Hagar that her son Ishmael’s decendants would also be too numerous to count.

While I truly believe in my Church, I fully respect those who devotedly pursue their understanding of God through the Quran, as I do anyone who is truly seeking God. While I have not met many Muslims personally, the ones I have met have had a devotion to God that at times puts mine to shame and humbles me in my weakness to live what I profess.

I for one will not damn Muslims for the actions of some who act in misunderstanding of what God calls them to any more than I will damn Christians for the same failings.

Peace to all,

 

[Bobby_A.Greene]

ncjohn:

I bought a fairly good copy with good commentary to help me understand what I was reading. I am slowly making my way through it, but have only made it through about a dozen suras so far. I’m sure it doesn’t have the same beauty in English as in the original Arabic, just as our English translations of the Bible necessarily diffuse some of the meanings of the original languages, but I do not let that bother me any more than I feel cheated by not being able to read the Greek or Aramaic texts of the Bible.

Meaning what? You plan on converting to a simplistic, pantheistic, and fatalistic religion which openly practices intolerance and murder?

Although I am Catholic, I recognize that a significant part of the earth’s population is Muslim, and that we share a common background. God promised Hagar that her son Ishmael’s decendants would also be too numerous to count.

Since the 1.3 billion Catholics outnumber the world population of muslims, God was probably talking about Christians.

While I have not met many Muslims personally, the ones I have met have had a devotion to God that at times puts mine to shame and humbles me in my weakness to live what I profess.

You might be confusing fanaticism for devotion.

I for one will not damn Muslims for the actions of some who act in misunderstanding of what God calls them to any more than I will damn Christians for the same failings.

Do Christians cut helpless people’s heads off with a kitchen knife while shouting out the Lord’s name?

 

[ncjohn]

Bobby A. Greene:

Meaning what? You plan on converting to a simplistic, pantheistic, and fatalistic religion which openly practices intolerance and murder?

Since the 1.3 billion Catholics outnumber the world population of muslims, God was probably talking about Christians.

You might be confusing fanaticism for devotion.

Do Christians cut helpless people’s heads off with a kitchen knife while shouting out the Lord’s name?

Wow, I can only wonder at what has caused this level of venom in you and wonder if you’ve ever actually met or talked to a Muslim. Quite frankly, I don’t see much use in even addressing your points as whatever it is that motivates you here is something that you’re going to have to work on yourself before there can really be any dialogue. I would really urge you though to look inside and ask what that might be as I can’t see you being able to answer our Christian calling to be peacemakers as things stand. Please believe me when I tell you that I am not saying that in judgment of you, but prayerfully that you will find some peace.

By the way, if you read something into my post that said I had some intention of converting, I’m not sure what it might have been as I clearly stated my love for my Church. My love for my church however does not prevent me from admiring others who are also seeking God.

Peace be with you,

 

[Faith101]

grotto:

Why is it that Islamic Fascists hold the understanding that the Quraan supports their belief? Do they all have bad translations? Seems like an “iffy” proposition to base a recommendation to believe and follow. Do people have to wear gloves if they are an infidel and touch translated copies or only the Arabic edition? Hmmmmm.

anyone can twist and turn the words of even the clearest book, in order to fullfill their agenda. We have talked, in other threads, abou the difference verses in the Quran that supposedly encourage violence. When looked at in context, they do not. You can open up a thread, and InshAllah, we can discuss it there.

I really dont like the word infidel. It remindes me of what the Christians used to call everyone before they attributed the word to Muslims…and now, its as if the Muslims invented the word. lol, subhanAllah.

You can read the translation of the meanings of the Quran

 

[Faith101]

adventistnomore:

That tension between th Qu’ran and the “modern world” raises all kinds of questions for devout, moderate. Muslims.

I’m not feeling the tension. The tension, i believe, only exists for those who do not have an understanding of the Quran and always feel that they have to be on the defensive when it comes to explaining what the Quran says.

The Quran is, without doubt, guidance to those who wish to realize the truth.

 

[grotto]

Big news yesterday about the chief “clerics” professing their out of context passages of the Koran that they teach to recruit terrorists convinces me that as an “infidel” I had better wake up and smell the coffee!

A large worry for some it seems is that the reality of Islamic Fascism is revealing itself clearly and will not be able to cloak itself in any form of peaceful, non violent, religious foundation.
As for labeling another an “infidel” it labels the labeler more clearly than the labeled! “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me”!

About starting another thread, go for it (oh, you said there have already been threads about this - okay). Did anybody ask about the “glove situation” cause I’m wondering how much our military has to pay for them in the prisons? My tax dollars at work y’know!

 

[grotto]

P.S. Faith101: Will I get a pair of gloves if I go to your website and order a copy?

 

[Faith101]

grotto:

P.S. Faith101: Will I get a pair of gloves if I go to your website and order a copy?

Peace Grotto

No need for gloves, just your respect.

 

[Faith101]

A large worry for some it seems is that the reality of Islamic Fascism is revealing itself clearly and will not be able to cloak itself in any form of peaceful, non violent, religious foundation.
As for labeling another an “infidel” it labels the labeler more clearly than the labeled! “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me”!

Infidel is a word originally used by the Christians. In Midieval terms it meant “Any one having a strong adversity to Christianity” (according to the midieval dictionary)netserf.org/Glossary/i.cfm

In arabic, a person who is not a Muslim is called a Kafir (one who disbelieves)…If you dont believe in One God and believe in all the messengers sent by God including Mohamed (peace be upon him) than you are a Kafir…its a descriptive term.

About starting another thread, go for it (oh, you said there have already been threads about this - okay). Did anybody ask about the “glove situation” cause I’m wondering how much our military has to pay for them in the prisons? My tax dollars at work y’know

I said, if you would like to know more about these verses…than please start anothe thread addressing the issues that you may have.

I dont think gloves are as expensive as the ropes and leashes used to drag the prisoners around. And they are definitly not as expensive as the short skirts the women are using to get the answers they want from the prisoners. I’m sure these women have to be paid for their services too (as cheap as it is, it still costs money). Perhaps you should be worried about the price of the camera film used to capture all the embarrasing torture the prisoners have to undergo…or maybe the amount of money used to try to hide the whole thing…so much of our money going to so many things for us having to worry about the price of gloves.

 

[grotto]

Just a couple of points to make here - anyone that wants my respect - has to deserve it. Somebody comes along that thinks I owe it to them has another think coming.

Secondly, its not very difficult to see through your surface that I seem to have scratched. Isn’t it great to be an American? I guess there are lots of people who just squirm over our American attitudes.

In a free country everyone is entitled to respect unless they do something that causes them to loose it. Men, women, children - all equal.

Your scratched surface seems to have revealed, shall we call it, contempt for American women in the service of their country and
certainly does not deserve respect.

You have avoided addressing the issue about the Quran/Koran gloves for infidels and state that Christians invented the term “infidel”. Know what? I don’t care - infidel is fine for me, for what its worth I guess it means I am an unbeliever and I take that as a compliment! The question still remains, how many translations/versions of the Quran/Koran are to be considered to represent the “real” guideline of Islamists? Which published copy needs to be handled with gloves by infidels according to some
CCWIC (that means Chief Caphi Whats In Charge)?

I think Home Depot is running a special on ten foot poles, that might be a better solution! smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/18/18_3_2.gif

 

[hawk]

Faith101:

In arabic, a person who is not a Muslim is called a Kafir (one who disbelieves)…If you dont believe in One God and believe in all the messengers sent by God including Mohamed (peace be upon him) than you are a Kafir…its a descriptive term.

This is not entirely true,
Kaafir means rejecter
, thus a christian rejects Mohammed, not Allah, according to our understanding as revealed in the Bible.
It is on this basis that we must reject Mohammed, because his teachings contradict the teachings of Christ.
Christians therefore are not kaafir, but people of the book, a special term reserved for Jews and Christians.

Hindus/Buddhists too, are not kaafir, until they have been educated in the Quran, and given the opportunity to convert.

However it is Hindus and Buddhists who have all too often borne the brunt of zealous muslim invaders.

in numerical terms the worst genocide in history happened in India, by invaders claiming to be muslim, Had it not been for the sikhs of punjab, India would have been over run by these lunatics, who make todays islamic terrorists seem like cute puppies.

They alone stood against the might of the Caliphs for 300 years.

Thank God, for the sikh gurus of India.

 

[Faith101]

Just a couple of points to make here - anyone that wants my respect - has to deserve it. Somebody comes along that thinks I owe it to them has another think coming.

Secondly, its not very difficult to see through your surface that I seem to have scratched. Isn’t it great to be an American? I guess there are lots of people who just squirm over our American attitudes.

In a free country everyone is entitled to respect unless they do something that causes them to loose it. Men, women, children - all equal.

Peace Grotto

There is a contradiction in your post. You say

1. anyone that wants my respect - has to deserve it
   then you say
   2.In a free country everyone is entitled to respect unless they do something that causes them to loose it

So, do you respect only those that prove themselves worthy…or do you just not respect those that prove themselves unworthy.

Your scratched surface seems to have revealed, shall we call it, contempt for American women in the service of their country and
certainly does not deserve respect.

lol. I am an American woman…born and raised here. This place is what i call home. Are you saying that I can not critize things my government is doing? Are you saying in order to be an good American I have to accept whatever my goverment does? That’s absurd…this country was built on the exact opposite.

You have avoided addressing the issue about the Quran/Koran gloves for infidels and state that Christians invented the term “infidel”. Know what? I don’t care - infidel is fine for me, for what its worth I guess it means I am an unbeliever and I take that as a compliment! The question still remains, how many translations/versions of the Quran/Koran are to be considered to represent the “real” guideline of Islamists? Which published copy needs to be handled with gloves by infidels according to some
CCWIC (that means Chief Caphi Whats In Charge)?

The Quran states that we shouldnt touch the Quran while “unclean” This requiers that Muslims make something called “wudu” which is a physical purification of the body (something that is done also before each prayer and requires washing certain parts of your body, ie.face,hands,private area, etc).

I would imagine since Christians dont do this, they should use a barrier when reading the ARABIC Quran. The translation you talk about is not Quran, it is a translation of the meanings.

I havent thought much about this topic, inshAllah, a better knowledgeble muslim can help you out.