N
NoWings
Guest
Not sure where this fits in on the list, but there’s also preterism.
How many different Beliefs Systems are there within Post Reformation Western Christianity
- Status
P
PRmerger
Guest
I’m not sure if I’m understanding your math explanation. Whatever the mathematical possibilities, we can safely assume that when people say “The Bible is my authority”, it leads to a very, very big number of doctrinal controversies. Each interpretation claims it’s Biblical, each claims it’s inspired by the HS…and sheer logic tells us that this is a FALSE understanding of God’s Word.
.
C
CDNowak
Guest
This topic, IIRC, arose out of a number that it commonly thrown around (30-33 thousand Protestant denominations). The math was just disproving that that number could be whittled down by counting the possibilities of doctrinal positions. The fact is that we were rapidly approaching a point where each protestant would have to have multiple opinions.
Now the thread is taking more of a “constructive” approach, in trying to classify the varieties of protestant belief, based on broader classifications (What is the difference between a Lutheran and a Calvinist?). The question is not whether they are true, but how many there are. Not all of them are sola scriptura, for example, and all limit biblical interpretation.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Correct.
I think the sheer number of “how many there are” makes a very clear statement: those who claim that one can read the Bible and, through the inspiration of the HS, come to understand what God is revealing cannot possibly be telling the truth (in regards to doctrine).
What do you mean by “limit biblical interpretation”?
C
CDNowak
Guest
I’m saying you’re off topic.
Other than non-denominational communities, all others have definite doctrine the limit the individual’s interpretation of Scripture. They may (or may not) recognize this, but start pushing the right issues and you will find it, hence the Protestant = personal interprtation = false paradigm is itself false.
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
CDNowak:
This is a very insightful point, and as a Protestant, I have found this to be true.
As I’ve said before, I grew up in Southern Baptist Churches (no longer Baptist.) The Doctrines are strict.
A few years ago, Genesis was discussed in a Sunday morning Baptist Bible Class. The leader made it very clear that if we did not believe in the six literal days of creation, “we may have a faith issue.” Everyone say in their chairs nodding in agreement, except me. Let’s just say, I got into a whole lot of trouble that day.
Anna
P
PRmerger
Guest
Why are we excluding non-denominational communities?
They have definite doctrine that limits the individual’s interpetation of Scripture. That is, if they read the Bible and decide that they disagree with their pastor’s interpretation, then they start their own non-denominational “community”.
Can you explain further? I’m not understanding…
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
Do these Catholic Denominations all hold the same belief systems/doctrines?
Anna
- Armenian (Eastern-rite Catholic)
- Bulgarian (Byzantine rite)
- St. Patrick’s Cathedral, New YorkByzantine-rite (jurisdiction for more than one ethnic group)
- Chaldean (Eastern Syrian rite)
- Coptic (Alexandrian rite)
- Ethiopic (Alexandrian rite)
- Greek (Byzantine rite)
- Hungarian (Byzantine rite)
- Italo-Albanian (Byzantine rite)
- Jurisdiction for both Latin-rite and Eastern-rite Catholics
- Latin-rite Catholic
- Malankara (Syro-Antiochian, Eastern Syrian), Syro-Malankarese
- Maronite (Syro-Antiochian, Western Syrian)
- Melkite (Byzantine, Greek Catholic; Arabic-speaking)
- plural Oriental (jurisdiction for several Eastern rites)
- Romanian Byzantine rite
- Russian (Byzantine rite)
- Ruthenian (Byzantine rite)
- Slovak (Byzantine rite)
- Syro-Malabarese (Eastern Syrian)
- Syrian, Syriac-speaking (Syro-Antiochian, West Syrian)
- Ukrainian Byzantine rite
Anna
C
CDNowak
Guest
We consider the various Churches as, well Churches, not denominations. But the ones in communion with Latin Church (sorry, not familiar enough with all of them to have checked the list, but nothing stood out) do have essentially the same beliefs. There are certainly differences in perspective on some things, but they have been reconciled in that regard.
C
CDNowak
Guest
I set aside non-denom’s because there are nondenominational communities that, by their nature, don’t have any official beliefs.
Several posters have approached this topic from the simplistic Catholic or protestant lens that presumes that all protestants subscribe to a strict policy personal interpretation that always leads them to false doctrines. These assumptions are so flawed as to make the conclusion so absurd that it demeans the one that holds it.
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
A
Anna_Scott
Guest
CDNowak:
I quoted you on another Thread: Protestants, how can this be possible?
Link: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5722588#post5722588
Thank you for your excellent comments,
Anna
P
pipper
Guest
I want to say this in regards to so called “non denominational” denominations. I do not feel they exist honestly. (sorry Anna) They may not be affiliated with specific Protestant denominations but they are still Protestant which is denominational in charactor. And to a person they are “sola scriptura” or “solo”.
Really they are I think a bit arrogant trying to usurp the name “Christian” for themselves only with thier “Christian” schools. bookstores, and media.
They are not the only Christians to exist.
Really they are I think a bit arrogant trying to usurp the name “Christian” for themselves only with thier “Christian” schools. bookstores, and media.
They are not the only Christians to exist.
M
mathematician
Guest
Only one. You may find a few sects who do not sign up to the Nicene Creed, but not many. Dispensing with the services of the Pope, or putting more emphasis on one Christian doctrine rather than another, does not make for a different belief system.
P
PJM
Guest
Hi James,
I like your approach to the issue at hand. But allow me please to “play devils avocate” with your premise.
Before doing so I might suggest a few additions to your list.
Sin, its nature, its effects
Repentance and Confession
All The Marian Issues
Grace and it’s application
Grace and how it is “earned” [yes I know its a free gift from God] but…
The role of Faith
The role of works
How does Salvation occour
Redemption vrs. salvation
Issues of authority
What the Bible actually and really means
And that’s all I can think of at the moment.
I live in Central Florida in a very small town of a few thousand people. [At present]. There are a number of larger communities surrounding us, including Daytona Beach.
There are 39 different denominational headings in our little phone book.[Does not include Daytona Beach and areas North and West of us.] But in addition to that ones sees what at least appears to differing theologies in the names chosen within the “same general denomination catagory.”
Because of what we might tern unstructured authority, the particular beliefs seem to be able to vary accourding to the Pastors own Theology? Certainly trying to gain a consensus
opinion on a bible passage would be a daunting task.
I base this last comment on what we see daily here on the Forum.
When I post the number 30,000 I do so having seen similar figures fron three seperate sources. But that was not and is not the issue that burthed this String. The issue is where is the foundation for “more than One.” Based on one of the few things we all tend to agree on; One God.
If there is only One God, is it imprudent to understand that this One God would have but One Faith, One set of beliefs?
Love and prayers,
Pat
G
guanophore
Guest
This is an interesting question. Usually, the estimate is based upon how many different outfits are registered as taxpayors, which really does not reflect any doctrine, necessarily.
Your question specifies “belief systems”. One of the reason for the multitude is a lack of systematic analysis. Breaks occur over personality problems, or one or two doctrinal issues, but those breaking apart do not go about systematically examining their beliefs.
All of them are based in the Reformation error of sola scriptura. This principle makes everyone who reads scripture their own self contained authority on what they are reading. Of course, everyone believes they are under the guidance of the HS, but when they come out with opposite conclusions it creates splits.
All of them are also united in the belief that the Catholic Church has it wrong.
M
mathematician
Guest
No error there.
C
Contarini
Guest
Also practiced today by many Anglicans and some Methodists, and traditionally by the Moravians if I am not mistaken.
Material sufficiency is affirmed in the Articles but these are not universally accepted today.
Many Anglicans do not believe in it in any sense in which Catholics do not.
There are Calvinist Anglicans who believe in it in the Calvinist sense, but they have to explain away the whole baptismal regeneration thing (which they do by making it conditional).
This is vague. Traditionally, since the Reformation Anglicans celebrated saints’ days and taught that we should follow their examples, but did not ask for their prayers. The 19th-century Anglo-Catholics revived the practice of asking for the intercessions of saints, which is condemned in the 39 Articles. It remains a minority practice among Anglicans.
Yes in a vague sense for all Anglicans; yes in the more specific Catholic/Orthodox sense for some.
Not according to Leo XIII.
That’s the Anglo-Catholic way of talking about it. The more Protestant wing would simply deny that the other five are sacraments in the proper sense.
I’m not sure this is really accurate. They may use that language, but given how central they think obedience to Christ is I really can’t see that they believe in it in any sense in which Catholics do not.
You are wrong there. I think you are confusing Anabaptists with Calvinist Baptists. (It is confusing because in the U.S. in particular so many Calvinist Baptists have watered down their Calvinism to the point where it consists only of OSAS.)
Yes, very strictly.
A resounding no to both.
No, although the phrase is very broad
Not generally, although they do believe that reception of the Eucharist brings forgiveness of sin and I know Restorationists who believe in some form of the Real Presence.
No–in fact, strict Restorationists believe that people who have been baptized as infants and have not been rebaptized cannot be saved, because they believe in the necessity of baptism for salvation. Many moderate Restorationists interpret the necessity of baptism in a more post-Vatican II sense!
Not in the Catholic sense–like Anabaptists and Baptists, they claim to have recovered the pure teaching of the New Testament and to be Anabaptists in that sense. (Obviously most Protestants claim this to some degree, but these three groups particularly emphasize it–the infant-baptizing Protestant churches are more willing to acknowledge how much they have been influenced by later theological developments.)
P
PRmerger
Guest
Another way of saying “dispensing with the services of the Pope” is:
“If you don’t BELIEVE in the services of the Pope…”
That is, you’ve subscribed to a different belief system.
That has lead to over 40,000 different belief systems, each claiming inspiration by the Holy Spirit.
P
pipper
Guest
To be even more confusing, how are the posters reffering to “Restorationist” I see there is already misunderstanding in this regard.
To some restorationist seems to apply to such semi-Christian sects as Mormons, SDA, and Jehovah Witnesses.
To me and it seems Contrarini’ Restorationists would apply to the 18th century “Restoration Movement” founded by the Campbells Pere et fil, and Barton Stone.
The denominations arising from this movement are the Disciples of Christ, Christian Churches (independent), and the Churches of Christ. These three denominations are orthodox, as opposed to the three previously mentioned sects.
To some restorationist seems to apply to such semi-Christian sects as Mormons, SDA, and Jehovah Witnesses.
To me and it seems Contrarini’ Restorationists would apply to the 18th century “Restoration Movement” founded by the Campbells Pere et fil, and Barton Stone.
The denominations arising from this movement are the Disciples of Christ, Christian Churches (independent), and the Churches of Christ. These three denominations are orthodox, as opposed to the three previously mentioned sects.
- Status