How Many Here Can Say With All Honesty They Are Split Between Catholic Traditinalist Mass & Novus Ordo

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centurionguard

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I’m not looking for sarcastic remarks here.
Truthfully I myself am torn in my heart between both Masses.
Would appreciate some honest (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
While I attend the Pauline Mass exclusively, I have nothing at all against the latin Mass and think that it should be preserved and continued because it is part of the Church’s Tradition. I have never advocated one form over the other, nor have I called for the elimination of one form or the other. Honestly, I don’t understand why it has to be an “either/or” situation.
 
I’d attend the TLM exclusively, if I could. In the N.O. churches available to me, I never know what they’re going to add on or alter in the Mass, and I don’t like the novelties, indults or no.

It’s like going into a shop to buy a pint of milk and being told, yes, you can have milk, but strawberry flavour. This week.
 
Timothysis said:
While I attend the Pauline Mass exclusively, I have nothing at all against the latin Mass and think that it should be preserved and continued because it is part of the Church’s Tradition. I have never advocated one form over the other, nor have I called for the elimination of one form or the other. Honestly, I don’t understand why it has to be an “either/or” situation.
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This would also sum up my position.
 
ncjohn said:
This would also sum up my position.
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I would probably move towards the Traditional Mass if as one gentlemen said there’s no Traditional Latin Mass in my archdiocese for lack of greater interest and lack of finding a priest who is qualified for the position. I have often wondered if there was Traditional Masses said with the exception of the Latin language itself though I am fairly quite familiar in understanding already with the Latin language. Perhaps that was the biggest change plus in the Novus Order Mass as for the vernacular language aspect being available in every-body’s own language with the gross exception of how the Novus Ordo Mass was poorly translated.
 
Timothysis said:
While I attend the Pauline Mass exclusively, I have nothing at all against the latin Mass and think that it should be preserved and continued because it is part of the Church’s Tradition. I have never advocated one form over the other, nor have I called for the elimination of one form or the other. Honestly, I don’t understand why it has to be an “either/or” situation.
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Well said.
 
My wife and I attend a Novus Ordo Mass every Sunday. I enjoy the Mass at my local church, but would definitely appreciate a more reverent atmosphere at times.

Some of my family are SSPX. My brother, his wife (and all of her family) are traditionalists. And without getting into the hairy details, I will just say that I have no desire to be a traditionalist. I want to be in communion with the one and only Catholic Church.

That said though, I do wish that people would be more reverent at church. There is typically loud fellowship bordering on being disrespectful prior to the beginning of Mass. Sometimes it bleeds over into the opening announcements. Many families refuse to use the Angel Room/Cry Room when their infants and toddlers act out during Mass. People will often arrive late, very late at times (as late as the 2nd reading) and interrupt service as they elbow their way into the pew.

I have also had to receive the Eucharist from EM’s that have crossed themselves because they were not permitted to receive the Eucharist. It was disturbing to me that somebody who was not in a state of grace, or permitted to receive the Eucharist for some reason was allowed to handle it and distribute it to me.

Ultimately there are traditional practices that my wife and I adhere to because we want to. We never receive the Eucharist in our hands, we bow before receiving the Eucharist, we avoid loud or demonstrative chatter or fellowship prior to Mass (we do fellowship after Mass). But these are things we choose to do. We understand that it is perfectly acceptable to receive the Eucharist in your hand and many of the other practices that seem to disturb traditional Catholics. So we don’t judge people on these things.

I wouldn’t say that I am split between the LRM and the Novus Ordo, but I definitely wish there was more reverence at the Mass I do attend.
 
You can be a traditionalist and be part of the one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Look at the FSSP, ICTK, etcc.
 
I prefer the TLM and would love to see it back in the mainstream. Its status as something underground and strange is what makes me feel torn. I’ve spent many years at NO so the thought of exclusively attending the Traditional Mass while there is still so much attitude towards it scares me. But I definitely prefer it and pray that things will change.
 
centurionguard said:
I would probably move towards the Traditional Mass if as one gentlemen said there’s no Traditional Latin Mass in my archdiocese for lack of greater interest and lack of finding a priest who is qualified for the position. I have often wondered if there was Traditional Masses said with the exception of the Latin language itself though I am fairly quite familiar in understanding already with the Latin language. Perhaps that was the biggest change plus in the Novus Order Mass as for the vernacular language aspect being available in every-body’s own language with the gross exception of how the Novus Ordo Mass was poorly translated.
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Elaborating on my last post. I have meet with a few Catholic men and women in my archdiocese probably less than 100 individuals interested in the the Traditional Latin Mass. Over the last decade a small group of individual Catholics who purchased a old wood structure small Baptist Church in the city that seriously needed repairs inside and in the basement. Repairs were made slowly over the time and a high alter Tabernacle from Maine and a Alter from Massachusetts outside Boston was eventually found and purchased and installed in the dilapidated old Baptist church without the consent of our Archbishop which over years became an unsettling thorn and embarrassment in his side. Over the years another TLM group from Nova Scotia added to the funding but later a argument ensued over management with resentments and the TLM Mass service in my city regrettably fell apart. There was also a struggle with the aging retired priest worsening health. Eventually correspondence letter pleas were sent to few places in western United States in search of Traditional Latin Mass priest willing to come to eastern Canada with free private accommodations a car and a earnest salary. Nothing was really successful. Presently; after a mending with our Archbishop he agreed to have a priest in our archdiocese with one TLM a month which was the best he could offer due to already aging and declining priests in our Archdiocese.
 
Over the past 2 1/2 years I have been going to a TLM and also attending my parish NO. I felt…and still do feel blessed to have access to both. However, now I attend the TLM exclusively.

Both have their place, but I feel MY place is the TLM.
 
BlyssfulDreamer said:
Over the past 2 1/2 years I have been going to a TLM and also attending my parish NO. I felt…and still do feel blessed to have access to both. However, now I attend the TLM exclusively.

Both have their place, but I feel MY place is the TLM.
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I was hoping someone would say that. 🙂 And, may I add, you said it very nicely, too.👍

For all the arguing that goes on, I doubt that most of those who “find their place” at the EF (as I do: when I voluntarily attend the Latin Rite it is only to assist at the EF) would really have much to say by way of complaining about the OF provided the EF were more readily available. Some folks are fortunate enough to have regular local access to the EF, but the vast majority (whether in the US or elsewhere) are not so blessed. They are, in a word, deprived of the opportunity to assist at the form of Mass they prefer. But of course they are not deprived of the various liturgical “oddities” that often go hand-in-hand with the OF. Given that, it is any wonder that those people rant about the OF? Is it any wonder many of them go to the SSPX (where available)?

The argument could be quietly put to rest if only the EF were offered more generally. From my perspective, I’d go so far as to suggest that any church having more than one Sunday Mass be required to have one of them according to the EF. (It’s doubtful that many bishops – especially those who are notoriously obstructionist to Summorum Pontifiicum in the first place – would be keen on the idea, but no doubt a lot of faithful would be.) If it were to happen, it would serve several purposes, including to help defuse the “war of religion” that has been raging for the past 40-some years.
 
centurionguard said:
I’m not looking for sarcastic remarks here.
Truthfully I myself am torn in my heart between both Masses.
Would appreciate some honest (name removed by moderator)ut.
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I could not care less which I attend-both have their strengths, both have teir weaknesses. we are there to worship the lord-not a mass
 
Honestly, at times I do feel torn. I attend the traditional Mass every Sunday and during the week when I can. All other times (daily Mass and the occasional Sunday) I attend the Novus Ordo. The celebrations of the OF might not be ideal, but the Lord is still there and I need to avail myself of those graces more than I need to avoid all the annoyances. If the priest would return to the altar ad orientam, if latin and Gregorian chant held pride of place (per Vatican II), if the people would return to receiving communion kneeling and on the tongue, and if reverent silence and prayer were kept before and after Mass, then I would find OF Masses much more inspiring.
 
Timothysis said:
While I attend the Pauline Mass exclusively, I have nothing at all against the latin Mass and think that it should be preserved and continued because it is part of the Church’s Tradition. I have never advocated one form over the other, nor have I called for the elimination of one form or the other. Honestly, I don’t understand why it has to be an “either/or” situation.
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The most obnoxious answer I can think of is because the priests have decided to make it such. Apparently, and, I haven’t studied up on it, the priests of the 50s, 60s, & 70s decided they were going to make this Church their church and removed what they could out of Catholicism (at least in America) and that Latin was over.

Another answer is that there’s not a lot of reverantly celebrated OF Masses that make our hearts say we are split. I’ve been to one. I know I’ve been to only one because it was the only one where the priest was facing not the congregation.
Layman said:
I’d attend the TLM exclusively, if I could. In the N.O. churches available to me, I never know what they’re going to add on or alter in the Mass, and I don’t like the novelties, indults or no.

It’s like going into a shop to buy a pint of milk and being told, yes, you can have milk, but strawberry flavour. This week.
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I think this is a good example. Yes. You have to take what you’re given, even if you don’t want it. Some people will say, “At least you’re getting the nourishment from the milk. It doesn’t matter the flavour, you went to the store and you’re getting the milk and that is the most iportant thing.” Kudos to the people who can find the nourishment in the milk, but, I hate it when my milk is wattered down or has added butterfat.
Fensterblau said:
My wife and I attend a Novus Ordo Mass every Sunday. I enjoy the Mass at my local church, but would definitely appreciate a more reverent atmosphere at times.

Some of my family are SSPX. My brother, his wife (and all of her family) are traditionalists. And without getting into the hairy details, I will just say that I have no desire to be a traditionalist. I want to be in communion with the one and only Catholic Church.
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Like the poster below you said, one could go to a TLM and not be in schism/herresy.

I hope your OF Mass does become more reverant because I truly believe that it in itself is causing people to be lacksidasical and disrespectful.

Mind you, IF you were to attend a TLM, not everything would go smoothly. Babies would still be crying, toddlers may toddle down the aisle before the talons of death could clutch them and bring them moaning back to their seats, people would seemingly not pay attention to the priest’s homily/announcements.

The Traditionalists do have a haughty attitude. It made me glad I wasn’t one of them. Despite their attitude (some), it’s not about them, it’s about you and your relationship with God and you need NEED to do what is right for you and your family. I am not saying that you need to go to a TLM, but, should you do, stay away from the SSPX, SSPV and others not in league with the Church. Obedience is still the best.
RyanML said:
Honestly, at times I do feel torn. I attend the traditional Mass every Sunday and during the week when I can. All other times (daily Mass and the occasional Sunday) I attend the Novus Ordo. The celebrations of the OF might not be ideal, but the Lord is still there and I need to avail myself of those graces more than I need to avoid all the annoyances. If the priest would return to the altar ad orientam, if latin and Gregorian chant held pride of place (per Vatican II), if the people would return to receiving communion kneeling and on the tongue, and if reverent silence and prayer were kept before and after Mass, then I would find OF Masses much more inspiring.
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Yes. Basically, if the OF Mass conducted itself like a Mass, we, possibly, would be more conflicted.
 
No, more conflicted, as in the OP’s sentiments. We would be more conflicted: Do we want to go to the Mass in Latin or the Mass in English? We kneel at both of them for Eucharist, the priest faces God in both, respectful and dignified clothes are worn at both…OH DILEMA OF DILEMAS!!! WHY DO YOU CAUSE ME SO MUCH GRIEF!!!

…Oh, wait. …The OP said no sarcastic answers. Well then, I’m out.

…That’s odd. Was there another posters post before me or did I just hallucinate that?
 
God is not in one direction, but not another. Our attention and imagination, though, those are another matter. Consider the following:

If a priest were to say Mass with kind of a go-through-the-motions attitude, I think it would definitely be better if his face and hands were out of sight most of the time, and that he be speaking in a language which is only used for prayer. I’m not saying that the TLM attracts any priests like that. I am saying that, if they are out there, they would at least be far less obvious. (There had to be priests who at least had days like that before Vatican II, too.) Anyone who hoped he would be more attentive would not be so distracted by the facts of his actions, or the inflections of his voice.

Likewise, I think it is more difficult to be unswervingly reverent when facing the congregation and speaking in their native tongue. Carelessness is so much more obvious, every unguarded moment is likewise obvious, and carelessness is catching.

Reverence, however, is catching, too. If a priest says Mass facing you, and he is very reverent and attentive, if he does the work to infuse every word with prayerfulness, in every moment, as the Holy Father is, it seems more catching to me. This is just my sense of it. When in person, you know that he can better sense whether you’re paying attention, that bad behavior would be a distraction. If you are very attentive, he can also sense that better. Besides, you cannot even imagine that he isn’t paying particular attention. You can see otherwise, in detail. So there is that cooperativity, both to good and ill, IMHO. The OF puts more on both priest and layperson, then, I think.

My opinion doesn’t matter, though. That was just a thought, thrown out, and maybe it only seems that way to me. If someone finds one particular Mass available that inspires particular reverence, they should go with that. One shouldn’t imagine that even if the EF or the OF could be objectively proven to be more reverent that it would necessarily be so for every priest or every congregation. (And the distraction of other people who aren’t particularly paying attention is an issue with either Mass.)

The tempter prowls like a lion, looking for someone to devour. Go, not to the Mass that you like best, but to the Mass that keeps you most fully in a spirit of attentive reverence and that does the most to make you one in Christ with the rest of the Church. It is the effect a Mass has on you (and the Church as a whole) that counts. Even if it isn’t the one you like best, it is the best one for you. We each have to honestly discern that.

If you have the choice between two or more places and times to attend Mass that fulfill that necessity equally well, EF or OF, you are blessed indeed! Give thanks, and don’t look a gift horse in the mouth!
 
EasterJoy said:
God is not in one direction, but not another. Our attention and imagination, though, those are another matter. Consider the following:

If a priest were to say Mass with kind of a go-through-the-motions attitude, I think it would definitely be better if his face and hands were out of sight most of the time, and that he be speaking in a language which is only used for prayer. I’m not saying that the TLM attracts any priests like that. I am saying that, if they are out there, they would at least be far less obvious. (There had to be priests who at least had days like that before Vatican II, too.)
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…True…
Reverence, however, is catching, too. If a priest says Mass facing you, and he is very reverent and attentive, if he does the work to infuse every word with prayerfulness, in every moment, as the Holy Father is, it seems more catching to me.
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…Hmmm…the Pope celebrates facing the people? …That does make a good case for it being…permited…
 
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