How Many Here Would Attend The Traditional Latin Mass If It Were Available ?

[elts1956]

i agree with JMJ
if we say that Latin is a unifying factor in the universality of our Church, then we just threw out all the Eastern Churches

also, saying that people can be taught and they can strive to learn Latin also throws out all the poor and illiterate people out there. many of these people don’t even know how to read or write in their own language. they appreciate the mass in the venacular because they grew up with this language and would not need to read or write to understand it in its spoken form. as for the poor, they may not have the resources, nor would have the time to learn another langauge. in many third world nations, the poor live in $10 a week or less, they scavange for garbage as a livelihood. do you think they would bother to learn Latin?

They could listen to it once in awhile. Wouldn’t hurt.

 

[Barb3]

I’m old enough to remember the Latin Mass but believe we don’t have one celebrated here in San Francisco – it is celebrated in a couple of neighboring counties, but I don’t think I can drive there.
My oldest son also remembers the Latin Mass and recently had an opportunity to attend one – he had grown so familiar with the priest facing the people he said he had a difficult time accepting that the priest’s back was to the people.
Ironically my son was in the Army JAG Corps and stationed in Germany for 3 years – I went over to take care of my grandson and truly preferred attending Mass at the Cathedral in Fulda even though it was in German and I didn’t understand it – but it seemed to me it was more “moving” than the Mass celebrated in the chapel on the post which they shared with various other denominations

 

[VetA]

I voted “no” but that’s not to say I would boycott a Latin Mass. I wouldn’t attend one for the same reason I wouldn’t attend a Mass in French or Spanish or Greek – I wouldn’t understand it.

Step 1: Go to Latin Mass Parish or catholic book store
Step 2: Ask to look at or borrow their latin missalets or purchase a Latin Missal
Step 3: Read the prayers in latin and notice the side by side translation Latin to English
Step 4: After reading prayers and understandin what goes on at the TLM attend one.
Step 5: After not being able to follow father the first time but still being amazed by the beauty of the TLM, attend a second and third one
Step 6: After attending the TLM 3 or 4 times, become a pro at reading the prayers while father is saying them.
Step 7: Learn to love the solemnity and beauty of said Mass, Learn to love it
Step 8: ???
Step 9: PROFIT!!!



All due respect meant. this is sort of the way it happend for me except that i went to my first TLM without any knowldge of what to expect. I honestly hope you do attend one and learn about it. after attending i cannot go to the NO and not wonder how that evolved from the TLM, it really is such a beautiful experience.

 

[dostoyevskyfan]

Just go. Something inside tells me the NO mass is no mass, and the new rite isn’t right. That’s not to say it isn’t valid.

 

[choy]

They could listen to it once in awhile. Wouldn’t hurt.

it could be in Japanese or Namibian, whats the difference?

bottom line, Liturgy in the vernacular reaches out to more people. makes the Mass and the Eucharist more accessible to all.

 

[choy]

Step 1: Go to Latin Mass Parish or catholic book store
Step 2: Ask to look at or borrow their latin missalets or purchase a Latin Missal
Step 3: Read the prayers in latin and notice the side by side translation Latin to English
Step 4: After reading prayers and understandin what goes on at the TLM attend one.
Step 5: After not being able to follow father the first time but still being amazed by the beauty of the TLM, attend a second and third one
Step 6: After attending the TLM 3 or 4 times, become a pro at reading the prayers while father is saying them.
Step 7: Learn to love the solemnity and beauty of said Mass, Learn to love it
Step 8: ???
Step 9: PROFIT!!!



All due respect meant. this is sort of the way it happend for me except that i went to my first TLM without any knowldge of what to expect. I honestly hope you do attend one and learn about it. after attending i cannot go to the NO and not wonder how that evolved from the TLM, it really is such a beautiful experience.

there is no profit in the language. there’s no reason what is done in a TLM cannot be done in another language. the Anglicans have accomplished it

 

[Viceroy]

A unified voice addressing God from every corner of the earth the same is better religion.
How many languages do the Anglicans use?

 

[Ockham]

i agree with JMJ
if we say that Latin is a unifying factor in the universality of our Church, then we just threw out all the Eastern Churches

also, saying that people can be taught and they can strive to learn Latin also throws out all the poor and illiterate people out there. many of these people don’t even know how to read or write in their own language.

Are you saying all the popes who have stated Latin to be the official language of the Church toss the Eastern churches?

Literacy is a fairly recent trend among the laity. The Church did just fine back in the day most people couldn’t understand the written word - that’s how stain glass windows evolved.

BTW the priest doesn’t have his back to the congregation - he is facing God. Ad populem may be more comfortable for the viewer in the television age but the priest then has his back to God.

 

[choy]

Are you saying all the popes who have stated Latin to be the official language of the Church toss the Eastern churches?

Literacy is a fairly recent trend among the laity. The Church did just fine back in the day most people couldn’t understand the written word - that’s how stain glass windows evolved.

BTW the priest doesn’t have his back to the congregation - he is facing God. Ad populem may be more comfortable for the viewer in the television age but the priest then has his back to God.

back in the day, Latin was the norm
there weren’t Churches in China or Japan or the Philippines or in the central and southern parts of Africa where Latin was never spoken

i’m pretty sure the context of the Pope’s statement is about the Roman Church. each of the Eastern Churches have their own official language. besides, having a single official language was never a requirement of the faith. the Apostles used the language of the locale the Church was founded

 

[choy]

A unified voice addressing God from every corner of the earth the same is better religion.
How many languages do the Anglicans use?

i’m talking about the Anglican Use English Missal, which is basically the TLM in English

 

[crocs]

Why am I not allowed to vote on this poll?

 

[CDNowak]

i’m talking about the Anglican Use English Missal, which is basically the TLM in English

Umm, the Anglican Use utilizes the Book of Divine worship, a synthesis of the Book of Common Prayer and the OF.

 

[crocs]

Why am I not allowed to vote on this poll?

OK, I just noticed that this is an older thread and likely the poll is closed.

 

[JMJ_coder]

OK, I just noticed that this is an older thread and likely the poll is closed.

I don’t think those with “trial memberships” are allowed to vote in polls.

 

[Cat]

Just go. Something inside tells me the NO mass is no mass, and the new rite isn’t right. That’s not to say it isn’t valid.

If I were you, I would ask exactly who or what that “something inside” is that is telling you something different then what Holy Mother Church tells us.

Do you think that a voice inside you has more authority than Holy Mother Church, Who has declared that the OF of the Mass is good and right for Christians?

Do you think that the Holy Father, the Vicar of Jesus Christ, would continue to offer a rite that “isn’t right?”

Many of the posts in this thread are all about personal preferences and “feelings.” That’s fine. In Her wisdom, the Church is offering Catholics the opportunity to celebrate two forms of the Mass, both equally valid. Obviously those who are not able to celebrate the form of the Mass that they prefer are unhappy and I hope that soon they will be able to find a Mass that suits their personal preference.

But personal preferences and feelings are NOT a basis for deciding which form of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is “right” or “not right.” We must trust the Church, not ourselves, not our backgrounds or our experiences, and above all else, not our feelings and “something inside us.” Human beings are easily deceived by evil ones who would prefer to see us denounce the Mass as somehow lacking. When we have thoughts that are in direct contradiction to what the Church teaches, we need to capture those thoughts and be rid of them, for they are not of God.

 

[ProVobis]

besides, having a single official language was never a requirement of the faith.

This is what Cardinal Arinze said on the matter in 2006:

…
Most rites have an original language which also gives each rite its historical identity. The Roman Rite has Latin as its official language. The typical editions of its liturgical books are to this day issued in Latin.

It is a remarkable phenomenon that many religions of the world, or major branches of them, hold on to a language as dear to them. We cannot think of the Jewish religion without Hebrew. Islam holds Arabic as sacred to the Qur’an. Classical Hinduism considers Sanskrit its official language. Buddhism has its sacred texts in Pali.

It would be superficial to dismiss this tendency as esoteric, or strange, or outmoded, old or medieval. That would be to ignore a fine element of human psychology. In religious matters, people tend to hold on to what they received from the beginning, how their earliest predecessors articulated their religion and prayed. Words and formulae used by earlier generations are dear to those who today inherit from them. While a religion is of course not identified with a language, how it understands itself can have an affective link with a particular linguistic expression in its classical period of growth.

1. Advantages of Latin in the Roman Liturgy

As was mentioned above, by the fourth century, Latin had replaced Greek as the official language of the Church of Rome. Prominent among the Latin Fathers of the Church who wrote extensively and beautifully in Latin were St Ambrose (339-397), St Augustine of Hippo (354-430), St Leo the Great († 461) and Pope Gregory the Great (540-604). Pope Gregory, in particular, brought Latin to a great height in the sacred liturgy, in his sermons and in general Church use.

The Roman Rite Church showed extraordinary missionary dynamism. This explains why a greater part of the world has been evangelized by heralds of the Latin Rite. Many European languages which we regard as modern today have roots in Latin, some more than others. Examples are Italian, Spanish, Romanian, Portuguese and French. But even English and German do borrow from Latin.

The Popes and the Roman Church have found Latin very suitable for many reasons. It fits a Church which is universal, a Church in which all peoples, languages and cultures should feel at home and no one is regarded as a stranger.

Moreover, the Latin language has a certain stability which daily spoken languages, where words change often in shades of meaning, cannot have. An example is the translation of the Latin “propagare”. The Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples when it was founded in 1627 was called “Sacra Congregatio de Propaganda Fide”. But at the time of the Second Vatican Council many modern languages use the word “propaganda” in the sense in which we say “political propaganda”. Therefore, there is a preference in the Church today to avoid the expression “de propaganda Fide”, in favour of “the Evangelization of Peoples”.

Latin has the characteristic of words and expressions retaining their meaning generation after generation. This is an advantage when it comes to the articulation of our Catholic faith and the preparation of Papal and other Church Documents. Even the modern universities appreciate this point and have some of their solemn titles in Latin.

Blessed Pope John XXIII in his Apostolic Constitution, Veterum Sapientia, issued on 22 February 1962, gives these two reasons and adds a third. The Latin language has a nobility and dignity which are not negligible (cf. Veterum Sapientia, nn. 5, 6, 7). We can add that Latin is concise, precise and poetically measured.

Is it not admirable that people, especially well-trained clerics, can meet in international gatherings and be able to communicate at least in Latin? More importantly, is it a small matter that 1 million young people could meet in the World Youth Day Convention in Rome in 2000, in Toronto in 2002 and in Cologne in 2005, and be able to sing parts of the Mass, and especially the Credo, in Latin? Theologians can study the original writings of the early Latin Fathers and of the Scholastics without tears because these were written in Latin.

It is true that there is a tendency, both in the Church and in the world at large, to give more attention today to modern languages, like English, French and Spanish, which can help one secure a job quicker in the modern employment market or in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in their country.

But the exhortation of Pope Benedict XVI to the students of the Faculty of Christian and Classical Letters of the Pontifical Salesian University of Rome, at the end of the Wednesday General Audience of 22 February 2006, retains its validity and relevance. And he pronounced it in Latin! Here is my free English translation: “Quite rightly our Predecessors have urged the study of the great Latin language so that one may learn better the saving doctrine that is found in ecclesiastical and humanistic disciplines. In the same way we urge you to cultivate this activity so that as many as possible may have access to this treasure and appreciate its importance” (in L’Osservatore Romano, 45, 23 February 2006, p. 5).
…

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20061111_gateway-conference_en.html

 

[Redratfish]

I prefer to understand what the priest says. Yes, I can follow along, but I would be more trying to keep up, instead of worshiping

 

[At_Trent]

there is no profit in the language. there’s no reason what is done in a TLM cannot be done in another language.

Do you realize how many Saints, Popes, Bishops, and Doctors of the Church you have just ignored ?

 

[MarkThompson]

Do you realize how many Saints, Popes, Bishops, and Doctors of the Church you have just ignored ?

Yeah, I’m sure there were tons who insisted that Mass could not reverently be celebrated in any language but Latin.

 

[At_Trent]

Yeah, I’m sure there were tons who insisted that Mass could not reverently be celebrated in any language but Latin.

Denial won’t make the documents, teachings, and writings go away.