How many traditional Catholics here like both forms of the Mass?

[Earnest_Bunbury]

My point is that words matter. The ceremony around the Eucharist matters. Adopting a liturgy based on a heretical one so people feel better is suspect. Does the Church want to become Episcopalian to attract more members? Where does that lead? Whose interests are we serving here?
Should the Church remain faithful to its traditions and let cosy lovers go elsewhere? Should it try to satisfy both? In any event this spiral back to tradition has excited the younger priests in my area. They are inspired. I see inspired young men in the pews. What are you seeing?

Church traditions are based on the deposit of faith delivered to the Apostles and as such what the Church decides to do, such as at Vatican Council II, is the tradition enlightened by the Holy Spirit. To “become Episcopalian” would go against that deposit of faith particularly in regards to homosexual matters, but not limited to that.

A renewal of the Church in Vat II in terms of the OF, which I prefer and lends itself better to the active participation at Mass conceived at the council, was not done to serve man but for man to better serve God today.

a) Active participation. During the first stage of the implementation of the reform, participation assumed a mainly exterior and didactic aspect, which later often degenerated to a sort of over-participation, at all costs and in every manner. The liturgy is not the sum of the emotions of a group of persons and much less a receptacle for personal feelings. It is above all time and space to interiorise the words we listen to and the sounds we hear in the liturgy, to make our own the actions performed, to assimilate the texts recited and sung, to let ourselves be penetrated by the images seen and the fragrances smelt.

www.vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/2004/documents/ns_lit_doc_20040202_liturgia-bellezza_en.html

 

[GerardSchlundt]

At my parish, I feel like a minority, because most people who go to the TLM seem to dislike the NO, even though the NO in our parish is celebrated very reverently. Most Sundays, I try to attend both our NO and our TLM. How many others here feel the same way?

While I do not in any way question the validity of the NO mass, I have to say that I do not like it.

My observation is that it is usually done very sloppily and without the reverence due. Obviously, this is a severe generalization. I’ve visited many churches where the rubrics are essentially ignored. Standing during consecration…prayers being altered…women giving ‘homilies’. This has turned me off completely on the NO.

We won’t even talk about the music! OK, Yes I will. Guitar masses, polka masses, kazoo chorus’ have no place in the mass. OK, so I made the last one up…I hope.

Not to mention music that is outright heretical. George Weigel addresses this better than I could. Then there is just plan BAD music… like Bill Gaithers ‘Awesome God’ being played (from tape/cd) as a processional ‘hymn’

While parish’s that offer TLM seem to be much better and following the rules in the NO, but I >STILL< much prefer TLM to NO.

Its always ‘fun’ to watch some one who is new to TLM, when they leave I’ve seen tears more often than not…

I’ll definitely stick to the TLM if it is at all possible, the NO is a necessity for me some times, but that doesn’t mean I have to like it.

-G

 

[maslibertad]

I prefer the Latin Mass both liturgically and just because people are so much more respectful. However I have no problem attending a NO, even though mistakes or lack of reverence often distract and sadden me, I see it as a reminder to pray for the Church. On a positve note about the new Mass, the daily readings are done in sequence and if you go every day you get a lot out of the homilies as the priest connects them very well…

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I attend the OF in Latin.

But I also attend an Anglican-Use Mass (my parish is under Pastoral Provision)

 

[asnlady]

The most beautiful masses I’ve attended were High Anglican ones: smells, bells, fine music, and poetic homilies. I like NO masses if they are reverant. The ones on EWTN are good examples of this.

 

[Kearney]

I love the Traditional mass and it pained me for years not to be able to attend one. I was such big supporter of traditional Catholics even though I wasn’t active at a trad parish. Every week I dreaded going to the liberal Ordinary mass parishes that I attended with the guitars, altar girls, communion on the hand, etc… Then one fine day after years of waiting I was finally able to go to an Extraordinary form mass at a local FSSP community. This mass really blew me away. I stood in awe of hr reverence and devotion which permeated from every direction and I thanked God nightly that he had permitted me to see these things. I soon began to attend mass there weekly and it looked as if I was on my way to accomplishing my dream of being a full fledged trad Catholic.

Sadly however a snake was soon to enter my Eden in the form of the churches pastor. This guy was a real straight laced fellow who just annoyed the heck out of me with his extremist rhetoric. I tried as best as possible to ignore him and concentrate solely on the mass. This soon proved to be impossible considering that his sermons lasted almost 30 minutes (this was at a Solemn High mass to boot). He preached the most dark and disturbing version of Catholics that I have ever heard preached. Don;T get me wrong, I knew that trad Catholics preferred all the fire and brimstone that on could dish out at them in a Sunday sermon. However this priest really went overboard in the topics that he preached on as well as his bleak view that all but the most monkish devout were damned. There is actually a site were you can here these sermons as well called Audio Sancto.

It got so bad that despite having such a love for the Extraordinary mass I had to stop going to it because of the priest. His sermons were starting to cause psychical depression to overcome me. it sad to say cause I don’t consider myself a person who gets deeply disturbed over things. However If I was going to make such a sacrifice to get to this mass, I at least wanted some form of moderation and not extremism being thrown at me on an every Sunday basis (this would include such topics as “unmarried men shouldn’t look at women in the face, arranged marriages are a possibility for trads, people who talk too much are “mentally poor” and of course, : If you can’t live the most rigorous life of self denial and fleshly mortification then you have no business going to my mass on Sundays”).

I am now back going to a reverent Saturday night vigil mass at a local Carmelite parish. I just couldn’t take what I was hearing. For years I had defended trads and claimed to be one myself. I used to argue with my mother constantly about how they were misunderstood people who had been abused by the Church and they were not whack jobs who idolized Waco and Ruby Ridge. However after listening to this priest I have kind of come to the conclusion that those who tried to warn me about getting involved with the trad movement, even those in communion with Rome, may have been more right then I wanted to admit. I still love the old Latin mass and wish that I could faithfully go to one every week and on holy days. But never, never again will I darken the door of such a parish as this were such extremism and insanity of par the course for parishioners.

These sad events have caused somewhat of a depression in my life. I tell people that it’s almost like getting a divorce. For years I had so much wanted a TLM and when I finally got one, it was a complete disaster for me. I even tried to talk to other parishioners in a more subtle way to see what they thought of the priest. They all loved the guy! They actually wanted to here this depressing stuff every Sunday. Oh well, what else can one do but move on and pray for the best to await them?

 

[Candace_Alexis]

Hi All, I did not answer the question. I do prefer the Latin Mass and I prefer it with Gregorian chant. My husband and grown children do also. We are all historians and musicians to more or lesser degrees and find that we interiorise the words we listen to and the sounds we hear in the liturgy, making our own the actions performed, and assimilating the texts recited and sung and we are penetrated by images seen and the fragrances smelt. These all developed over hundreds and even thousands, now, of years to impact us and arouse reverence, awe and devotion - emotions so rare nowadays.
Gloria Patri et Filio et Spiritui Sancto, sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum. Amen.

 

[RUINATION_IPA]

I love the Traditional mass and it pained me for years not to be able to attend one. I was such big supporter of traditional Catholics even though I wasn’t active at a trad parish. Every week I dreaded going to the liberal Ordinary mass parishes that I attended with the guitars, altar girls, communion on the hand, etc… Then one fine day after years of waiting I was finally able to go to an Extraordinary form mass at a local FSSP community. This mass really blew me away. I stood in awe of hr reverence and devotion which permeated from every direction and I thanked God nightly that he had permitted me to see these things. I soon began to attend mass there weekly and it looked as if I was on my way to accomplishing my dream of being a full fledged trad Catholic.

Sadly however a snake was soon to enter my Eden in the form of the churches pastor. This guy was a real straight laced fellow who just annoyed the heck out of me with his extremist rhetoric. I tried as best as possible to ignore him and concentrate solely on the mass. This soon proved to be impossible considering that his sermons lasted almost 30 minutes (this was at a Solemn High mass to boot). He preached the most dark and disturbing version of Catholics that I have ever heard preached. Don;T get me wrong, I knew that trad Catholics preferred all the fire and brimstone that on could dish out at them in a Sunday sermon. However this priest really went overboard in the topics that he preached on as well as his bleak view that all but the most monkish devout were damned. There is actually a site were you can here these sermons as well called Audio Sancto.

It got so bad that despite having such a love for the Extraordinary mass I had to stop going to it because of the priest. His sermons were starting to cause psychical depression to overcome me. it sad to say cause I don’t consider myself a person who gets deeply disturbed over things. However If I was going to make such a sacrifice to get to this mass, I at least wanted some form of moderation and not extremism being thrown at me on an every Sunday basis (this would include such topics as “unmarried men shouldn’t look at women in the face, arranged marriages are a possibility for trads, people who talk too much are “mentally poor” and of course, : If you can’t live the most rigorous life of self denial and fleshly mortification then you have no business going to my mass on Sundays”).

I am now back going to a reverent Saturday night vigil mass at a local Carmelite parish. I just couldn’t take what I was hearing. For years I had defended trads and claimed to be one myself. I used to argue with my mother constantly about how they were misunderstood people who had been abused by the Church and they were not whack jobs who idolized Waco and Ruby Ridge. However after listening to this priest I have kind of come to the conclusion that those who tried to warn me about getting involved with the trad movement, even those in communion with Rome, may have been more right then I wanted to admit. I still love the old Latin mass and wish that I could faithfully go to one every week and on holy days. But never, never again will I darken the door of such a parish as this were such extremism and insanity of par the course for parishioners.

These sad events have caused somewhat of a depression in my life. I tell people that it’s almost like getting a divorce. For years I had so much wanted a TLM and when I finally got one, it was a complete disaster for me. I even tried to talk to other parishioners in a more subtle way to see what they thought of the priest. They all loved the guy! They actually wanted to here this depressing stuff every Sunday. Oh well, what else can one do but move on and pray for the best to await them?

Kearny, I think a lot of us know which Priest you speak of but getting out of our comfort zone and realizing that the road to heaven is not nearly as easy as we were led to believe is neccessary. We were once told at NO Mass that all you had to do was say the name of ‘Jesus’ right before you die and you would go straight to heaven. After years of being spoon fed relativism and universal salvation it’s hard to comprehend that our fundamental education may have been completely in error! If you want to talk about a confused Catholic try me; born post Vatican II and reading pre-Vatican II books, scratching my head wondering if I made a wrong turn somewhere. I don’t try to minimize your experience but maybe the Priest should approach this in baby steps. Maybe you should tell him about your feelings on this so he can adjust his preaching accordingly. You’re right in the fact that he may think he’s preaching to the choir not realizing that everyone is not on the same page. On the other hand, he has a duty as a Priest to preach the gospel in season and out of season and so we have to look to ourself and ask if were’ being completely honest with ourself and what are we finding objectionable and if the objection stems from a necessity of us changing our lives based upon what the Priest is saying. Change hurts. Penance hurts. Our wills and ego are incessantly fed by our society and when someone comes along and stirs our stagnation we become indignant.

I would tell the Priest your concerns so he can be made aware of any negligence on his part - but be open to what he has to say in response.

 

[Kearney]

No I’m not interested in frequenting his “church” again anytime soon. I’m all for tradition and preaching what the Church teaches but this priest is fanatical in his ideas. Furthermore just bcause someone wants to go to a Latin Mass does not mean that they should have to be exposed to this time of Talibanesque type of religion.

Furthermore I am sick and tired of everyone from this community treating this priest like he were the ONLY one in the world and gushing over his words as if they were the only ones we have to go by. The way in which the people fawn over him is disturbing and almost cult like. It’s a rel shame that the archdiocese in question allows this type of extremism to be the sole representative of the TLM here.

 

[Leeta]

Try wearing ear plugs!

The nearest OF Mass to us is such a Mass. My husband asked me one day rhetorically, “if we closed our eyes and wore ear plugs during the whole Mass, would that fulfill our Sunday obligation?”

I prefer the EF. Even a low, low EF Mass is to be prefered to an OF Mass.

The problem, folks, is that we still don’t have much choice: it’s OF ueberalles around here, unless you want to drive an hour one way and ONLY on Sunday and Holy Days!!!

Today, I made the mistake of going to an OF Mass and had to endure what sounded like a new feast day, President’s Day!!!
The priest said it was just a prayer for this day written by the liturgical terrorists. And he tied it in with praying for Obama specifically. He seemed to not be aware and perhaps the bishops’ committee either that President’ s Day is an American secular celebration of George Washington’s and Abraham Lincoln’s birthday and not that of the current President!

This makes me want to quit going to daily Mass around here!! Why do we have all this remaking of the holy Sacrifice?
Why all the effort to defend the OF Mass? It is indefensible. There are so many structural and confused parts to it. Actually, most of us have probably never attended the Mass of Paul VI.
Why can’t we, if it is so superior to the EF?
Instead we get a distorted and malformed version of it and different in every parish. No two OF Masses are alike, it seems.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Try wearing ear plugs!

The nearest OF Mass to us is such a Mass. My husband asked me one day rhetorically, “if we closed our eyes and wore ear plugs during the whole Mass, would that fulfill our Sunday obligation?”

I prefer the EF. Even a low, low EF Mass is to be prefered to an OF Mass.

The problem, folks, is that we still don’t have much choice: it’s OF ueberalles around here, unless you want to drive an hour one way and ONLY on Sunday and Holy Days!!!

Today, I made the mistake of going to an OF Mass and had to endure what sounded like a new feast day, President’s Day!!!
The priest said it was just a prayer for this day written by the liturgical terrorists. And he tied it in with praying for Obama specifically. He seemed to not be aware and perhaps the bishops’ committee either that President’ s Day is an American secular celebration of George Washington’s and Abraham Lincoln’s birthday and not that of the current President!

This makes me want to quit going to daily Mass around here!! Why do we have all this remaking of the holy Sacrifice?
Why all the effort to defend the OF Mass? It is indefensible. There are so many structural and confused parts to it. Actually, most of us have probably never attended the Mass of Paul VI.
Why can’t we, if it is so superior to the EF?
Instead we get a distorted and malformed version of it and different in every parish. No two OF Masses are alike, it seems.

Well… we are supposed to pray for our country’s leader regardless of how we personally feel about him.