How many Will Be Saved

[TedDC]

I wonder why you are requiring “proof”.

Do you require “proof” with everything else in your life?

I am willing to guess that when you fly you do not call the airlines demanding proof that the pilot has his/her license.

Do you check your physician’s med school records to make sure he/she graduated?

But in the cases you mentioned, I could get the proof if I wanted to. That can’t be said about the Catholic Church’s claims.

 

[PRmerger]

But in the cases you mentioned, I could get the proof if I wanted to. That can’t be said about the Catholic Church’s claims.

But, essentially, you live your life in the same way as if you have faith in these things. For you actually have never gotten proof, have you?

And, what would constitute proof for you for your pilot? I submit to you that his showing you his license is at least equivalent to the proof the Church has provided for its Truth. That is, even his showing you his license leaves room for doubt, does it not? He could have a forgery.

Truly, the only way to have proof of his competency would be to have observed him in all his classes, reviewed his test scores, stood beside him as he took his licensure exam…

And yet, you simply put your faith in him and the airline.

Why such a higher standard for the Church? Would you not say that trusting your life to a stranger demands at least as much proof as that which you demand for the Church?

 

[Little_One0307]

But in the cases you mentioned, I could get the proof if I wanted to. That can’t be said about the Catholic Church’s claims.

I had to respond to this one. I have been watching this thread lurking in the background.

“Catholic Church’s claims???” It comes down to faith then, and then the responsibility comes down to us. Are we willing to believe something because Jesus through The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church holds it for us to believe? It also comes down to humility and obedience as well. I would far rather err on the side of caution and keep praying for God to help me to believe what the Church teaches even if I am have a struggle in believing some of Her Teachings, and I am having to do so on some of the doctrines because I do not understand them. The shortcoming rests soley on me, and not on the Church.

The Church cannot err in her doctine because The Holy Spirit keeps the Church from error. When one says that one cannot believe in the Church’s claims, one says they cannot believe in God’s claim, and is that not down right presumptious and even scary?
Many saints gave their lives for the “claims” of the Church, how do you explain this?

I do have a question to leave you with some food for thought. What if the Catholic Church’s claims are True? Then what?

If I totally mis-read your response, I apologize.

God Bless.

Little One0307

 

[Third_Day]

Quite the contrary - learning the faith is what convinced me it’s not true. And every time I have doubts about my decision to leave, a dose of Michael Voris quickly reassures me that I made the right choice!

You’re really no different than Harold Camping. He decided that he was guided by the Holy Spirit and could infallibly interpret the bible and predict the end of the world. This is what you have done. You interpret scripture apart from the One True Church and have come to the conclusion that the Holy Spirit guided you to reject the teachings of the Catholic Church and you have come to “learn the faith” when you have actually rejected the faith handed down by Christ to the apostles to the Catholic Church.

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

Quite the contrary - learning the faith is what convinced me it’s not true. And every time I have doubts about my decision to leave, a dose of Michael Voris quickly reassures me that I made the right choice!

Basing your opinion of the faith on Michael Voris seems narrow and reactionary.

 

[TedDC]

Why such a higher standard for the Church? Would you not say that trusting your life to a stranger demands at least as much proof as that which you demand for the Church?

Because the claims made by the Church are far more extraordinary and far-reaching than the simple assertion that an individual is competent to fly an airplane or practice medicine.

 

[PRmerger]

Because the claims made by the Church are far more extraordinary and far-reaching than the simple assertion that an individual is competent to fly an airplane or practice medicine.

LOL! Don’t you consider “competency to fly an airplane” at least as big a deal as the “claims made by the Church”, as you are, well, putting your life into this man’s–a complete stranger!-- hands? Literally.

I’m not saying that it’s wrong to have faith in the airlines, or in a complete stranger.

I’m just pointing out that you have a double standard and it’s really, I’m proposing, a reaction to something which rankled you in the Church.

IOW: it has no basis in logic or reason. You left the Church because you were reactionary, not because you reasoned your way to a different conclusion.

 

[Ignatius]

Step 1: Stop watching The Vortex. You may still end up in hell, but can it really be any worse than an hour of that Michael Voris guy?

It is the work of Michael Voris and those like him who speak the Truth that many will be brought back to Jesus Christ and His Church. I’ll pray that the Holy Spirit, perhaps with the help of Real Catholic TV, will guide your way back.

Christ is Risen!
Indeed, He is Risen!

 

[TedDC]

It is the work of Michael Voris and those like him who speak the Truth that many will be brought back to Jesus Christ and His Church. I’ll pray that the Holy Spirit, perhaps with the help of Real Catholic TV, will guide your way back.

Christ is Risen!
Indeed, He is Risen!

Maybe make that “…in spite of Real Catholic TV…”

 

[babylonsfalling]

Quite the contrary - learning the faith is what convinced***<–Convinced here*** me it’s not true. And every time I have doubts <–and having doubts hereabout my decision to leave, a dose of Michael Voris quickly reassures me that I made the right choice!

So you’re “convinced” in the first sentence and “have doubts” on the second sentence?
Didja think no one noticed?

And let me guess…we’re not supposed to read anything into such a conflicted statement…right?

 

[TedDC]

LOL! Don’t you consider “competency to fly an airplane” at least as big a deal as the “claims made by the Church”, as you are, well, putting your life into this man’s–a complete stranger!-- hands? Literally.

I’m not saying that it’s wrong to have faith in the airlines, or in a complete stranger.

Quite the contrary - the most a pilot can do is to avoid killing me while moving me from point A to point B. The Church’s claims deal with eternal life. Wouldn’t you consider that more important?

I’m just pointing out that you have a double standard and it’s really, I’m proposing, a reaction to something which rankled you in the Church.

Well, I certainly have a higher standard for the Church’s claims because they deal with such extraordinary matters. It’s like the difference between someone claiming to be an airplane pilot, and someone claiming to be a flying-saucer pilot. We know that airplane pilots exist because we see planes flying all the time, so it’s not much of a leap to believe that a particular individual would be a pilot. But most of us have never seen a flying saucer and probably don’t believe they even exist, so someone who claims to be a saucer pilot would be held to a higher standard of proof; i.e. he’d have to convince us that saucers really exist, before we even begin to consider whether he’s able to fly one.

IOW: it has no basis in logic or reason. You left the Church because you were reactionary, not because you reasoned your way to a different conclusion.

You are, of course, entitled to your speculation on such matters.

 

[ERose]

After viewing that video,it just makes me wonder. I am doing all I can I know. I am going to Mass every morning before work, not that I have to, but I am called to and I do. I pray the rosary each day along with other prayers, mostly for others. I try my best not to sin. All of this I do to the best of my knowledge and ability, but I guess I wonder, in light of what has been said by the Church Fathers and Jesus Himself, if when all is said and done, will I have failed?

Look you sound like you are doing God’s will in your life, if you are, you truly have nothing to worry about. Keep on building that relationship my brother and in the end God will call you son/daughter.

Pray to God for perservance daily.

 

[PRmerger]

Well, I certainly have a higher standard for the Church’s claims because they deal with such extraordinary matters. It’s like the difference between someone claiming to be an airplane pilot, and someone claiming to be a flying-saucer pilot. We know that airplane pilots exist because we see planes flying all the time, so it’s not much of a leap to believe that a particular individual would be a pilot. But most of us have never seen a flying saucer and probably don’t believe they even exist, so someone who claims to be a saucer pilot would be held to a higher standard of proof; i.e. he’d have to convince us that saucers really exist, before we even begin to consider whether he’s able to fly one.

Fair enough, Ted.

Do you require this “higher standard” for proof of God’s existence, then?

It seems that you are a Believer, yes?

Why, then, this inconsistency? You live your life with faith (no proof of this pilot’s abilities) in a complete stranger flying you thousands of miles above the earth; you live your life with faith (no proof) of God’s existence.

Yet, for some reason, you demand a completely different criterion for the Church.

Why is this?

 

[Leonhard]

Only a slim portion of people will hit the lottery, but everyone still runs out and buys tickets. Who’s to say it isn’t going to be you, or me, or John Doe down the street?

You think becoming saved is a random lottery game that God plays on humanity?

 

[PRmerger]

You think becoming saved is a random lottery game that God plays on humanity?

Not at all. Becoming saved is an invitation that is available to all. Some accept. Some refuse.