How many Will Be Saved

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God’s Mercy which is infinite and trusting in His Providence. His grace is what wins for us the Beautific Vision and the beatitude of heaven.

And I think it is worthwhile to consider what kind of society the Church fathers were in. Most were pagans and what not. So I guess in relatative terms of the population maybe to them few made it in. Perhaps that is why they wrote the way they did.

Little One0307
 
lakotak said:
After listening to this episode of the Real Catholic TV- the Vortex, I guess my question is: If all the Church Fathers have said that very few will go to heaven, how can most of us have hope of even trying to get there, if according to them, only a slim portion of humanity will ever reach Heaven?
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If you’ll view the video carefully, you’ll see that it urges us to take steps so that we will avoid hell. That seems to be the main purpose of the video. After all, it’s not that God doesn’t want us to be saved, in fact He "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. (2 Pt 3:9). That’s exactly the message of the video. God is ready and eagerly awaiting us, we only have to repent, and turn to the Gospel. All of those who choose to continue to love their sin more than God and refuse to repent are lost.

This has always been Catholic Teaching on the subject. Good stuff, Thanks for the link.

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lakotak said:
After listening to this episode of the Real Catholic TV- the Vortex, I guess my question is: If all the Church Fathers have said that very few will go to heaven, how can most of us have hope of even trying to get there, if according to them, only a slim portion of humanity will ever reach Heaven?

youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhee#p/u/0/GCf8C1Xcpds
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First, it is not only the Church Fathers, Doctors, and Saints who all believe that few are saved, this idea actually comes from Christ himself:
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow is the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
Matthew 7: 13-14
Second, this is not something to despair over. We are free to chose, we have the option to chose salvation and God’s grace is available. Think of all of the sacrament oppurtunities, the sacramentals, and the prayers available too us through the Church. If we rely on these things and read good Catholic writings (Catechism, Bible, etc.) and work hard at our salvation, God will save us. God wants us to go to heaven. Its not as if God is up there waiting for us to sin so he can send us to hell. I think most people are damned not because most people are sincerely trying to go to heaven and they “mess up” but because most people don’t really care about God or morality.

Lastly, I think this was a great video. Michael Vorris reminds us at the end that it is up to us whether or not we are saved, this is important to remember. We should not despair and we should always strive for perfection with the knowledge of if we try, we will be saved. The last paragraph of this sermon basically says the same thing: trueletterofoursavior.com/stleonard.htm
 
Christ instituted the Sacraments for our sake. Regular reception of them is designed to guide you to the narrow gate. If we focus on conversion of our hearts via an increase in the three theological virtues: Faith, Hope and Love, we are not going to be far from the Kingdom.
 
lakotak said:
After listening to this episode of the Real Catholic TV- the Vortex, I guess my question is: If all the Church Fathers have said that very few will go to heaven, how can most of us have hope of even trying to get there, if according to them, only a slim portion of humanity will ever reach Heaven?

youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhee#p/u/0/GCf8C1Xcpds
Click to expand...
Step 1: Stop watching The Vortex. You may still end up in hell, but can it really be any worse than an hour of that Michael Voris guy?
 
TedDC said:
Step 1: Stop watching The Vortex. You may still end up in hell, but can it really be any worse than an hour of that Michael Voris guy?
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Maybe if you had watched Michael Voris and learned your faith you wouldn’t be a “former” Catholic. Michael Voris is doing a great service of spreading the truth…
 
lakotak said:
After listening to this episode of the Real Catholic TV- the Vortex, I guess my question is: If all the Church Fathers have said that very few will go to heaven, how can most of us have hope of even trying to get there, if according to them, only a slim portion of humanity will ever reach Heaven?

youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhee#p/u/0/GCf8C1Xcpds
Click to expand...
This gets into the question of invincible ignorance. Why did Pope Pius use the word “invincible?” Why not extreme ignorance? Most people are ignorant through their own fault, their own laziness.This encyclical says it all.

ACERBO NIMIS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS X ON TEACHING CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE
APRIL 15, 1905
To the Patriarchs, Primates, Archbishops, Bishops and other Ordinaries in Peace and Communion with the Apostolic See.
2. It is a common complaint, unfortunately too well founded, that there are large numbers of Christians in our own time who are entirely ignorant of those truths necessary for salvation. And when we mention Christians, We refer not only to the masses or to those in the lower walks of life – for these find some excuse for their ignorance in the fact that the demands of their harsh employers hardly leave them time to take care of themselves or of their dear ones – but We refer to those especially who do not lack culture or talents and, indeed, are possessed of abundant knowledge regarding things of the world but live rashly and imprudently with regard to religion. It is hard to find words to describe how profound is the darkness in which they are engulfed and, what is most deplorable of all, how tranquilly they repose there. They rarely give thought to God, the Supreme Author and Ruler of all things, or to the teachings of the faith of Christ. They know nothing of the Incarnation of the Word of God, nothing of the perfect restoration of the human race which He accomplished. Grace, the greatest of the helps for attaining eternal things, the Holy Sacrifice and the Sacraments by which we obtain grace, are entirely unknown to them. They have no conception of the malice and baseness of sin; hence they show no anxiety to avoid sin or to renounce it. And so they arrive at life’s end in such a condition that, lest all hope of salvation be lost, the priest is obliged to give in the last few moments of life a summary teaching of religion, a time which should be devoted to stimulating the soul to greater love for God. And even this as too often happens only when the dying man is not so sinfully ignorant as to look upon the ministration of the priest as useless, and then calmly faces the fearful passage to eternity without making his peace with God. And so Our Predecessor, Benedict XIV, had just cause to write: “We declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be numbered among the elect.”
 
Wow, that was pretty depressing. Probably the antithesis of new age/fairy tale Christianity that seems to be so popular today. Lord, let nothing stand in between me and my salvation. Whatever it takes Jesus!!
 
Thanks for all of your thoughts.

Definitely food for further thought.
 
I’ll attempt to put a more affirmative sentiment on the matter of who enters Heaven and Hell. We all know what Jesus says in Matthew 7:13-14:

“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”

A somewhat ominous warning. He also says the following in Matthew 7:21:

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

Definitely not confidence inspiring either. However, there is the parable, Luke 15:3-7, which states:

“Which of you men, if you had one hundred sheep, and lost one of them, wouldn’t leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one that was lost, until he found it? When he has found it, he carries it on his shoulders, rejoicing. When he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I tell you that even so there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents, than over ninety-nine righteous people who need no repentance.”

This speaks to me very clearly of a compassionate, loving God, so loving that He laments the lost of one sheep from his flock and rejoices ardently at its recovery. So, here we have God that may well view as losing one sheep out of hundred as too many lost and ninety-nine out of a hundred as too few saved. Now, I’m not saying that getting into Heaven will be easy (or being Catholic for that matter) but I believe there is real hope if we try to build our relationship with God.
 
There are a lot of Christians who go to church and don’t go to church who never repent in their lives. Saying I believe and not repenting is empty - I believe you must live it - repenting is very difficult in todays world - turning away from what others say is ok and trying with all your might not to sin - I pray for grace to do this and go to confession - of course we will aways fall short but we must always make a genuine effort to live the good life. Faith must be the central part of our lives and if its not then I believe we have come up short.Especially in todays world where faith is being frowned on more and more - an example of doing things that seem ok is - how many of you have pirated software on your PC right now - how much music have you got that you downloaded and didn’t pay for on your PC - stealing is stealing.

Read this: holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/aneelaranha/holyspiritschool/purification.asp
 
Little_One0307 said:
And I think it is worthwhile to consider what kind of society the Church fathers were in. Most were pagans and what not.
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How is that any different than today? The majority of the world today is not Catholic. And by Catholic I mean solid, Faithful, practicing Catholic.

:confused:

~Liza
 
lizaanne said:
How is that any different than today? The majority of the world today is not Catholic. And by Catholic I mean solid, Faithful, practicing Catholic.

:confused:

~Liza
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The above was merely an observation and not a proof statement for my position.

Found something in the CCC that may help. I love it when I find things at 0300 hrs.

Paragraph 1821 - We can THEREFORE hope in the glory 9f heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere “to the end.” and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God’s eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. [there’s more to the paragraph but I did not type it.] [emphasis mine]

sry to confuse you.

Little One0307
 
After viewing that video,it just makes me wonder. I am doing all I can I know. I am going to Mass every morning before work, not that I have to, but I am called to and I do. I pray the rosary each day along with other prayers, mostly for others. I try my best not to sin. All of this I do to the best of my knowledge and ability, but I guess I wonder, in light of what has been said by the Church Fathers and Jesus Himself, if when all is said and done, will I have failed?
 
lakotak said:
After listening to this episode of the Real Catholic TV- the Vortex, I guess my question is: If all the Church Fathers have said that very few will go to heaven, how can most of us have hope of even trying to get there, if according to them, only a slim portion of humanity will ever reach Heaven?

youtube.com/user/RealCatholicTV?feature=mhee#p/u/0/GCf8C1Xcpds
Click to expand...
Only a slim portion of people will hit the lottery, but everyone still runs out and buys tickets. Who’s to say it isn’t going to be you, or me, or John Doe down the street?
 
Third_Day said:
Maybe if you had watched Michael Voris and learned your faith you wouldn’t be a “former” Catholic. Michael Voris is doing a great service of spreading the truth…
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Quite the contrary - learning the faith is what convinced me it’s not true. And every time I have doubts about my decision to leave, a dose of Michael Voris quickly reassures me that I made the right choice!
 
TedDC said:
Quite the contrary - learning the faith is what convinced me it’s not true. And every time I have doubts about my decision to leave, a dose of Michael Voris quickly reassures me that I made the right choice!
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How 'bout getting a dose of Pope Benedict or Teresa of Avila or Thomas Aquinas?

Read them biggies, and then come back and see if you’re reassured you made the right choice. 🙂
 
PRmerger said:
How 'bout getting a dose of Pope Benedict or Teresa of Avila or Thomas Aquinas?

Read them biggies, and then come back and see if you’re reassured you made the right choice. 🙂
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There’s a lot of wisdom in their writings, to be sure. And they are way less annoying than Voris. But proof of Catholicism’s “One True Church” boast? No.
 
TedDC said:
There’s a lot of wisdom in their writings, to be sure. And they are way less annoying than Voris. But proof of Catholicism’s “One True Church” boast? No.
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I wonder why you are requiring “proof”.

Do you require “proof” with everything else in your life?

I am willing to guess that when you fly you do not call the airlines demanding proof that the pilot has his/her license.

Do you check your physician’s med school records to make sure he/she graduated?

:hmmm:
 
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