How many women here wear a headcovering to Novus Ordo Mass?

[EvelynMilne]

There are two women (including myself) who wear mantillas and three women who wear hats. I am aware of the occasional stares which make me feel a little uncomfortable but I would feel even more uncomfortable and ashamed if I did not wear one. As a child,in a convent boarding school in the 1950s and 60s, it was mandatory and a sign of respect for Our Lord. Vatican II did not do away with the necessity for women to cover their heads. It was the feminist movement who made this decision. C’mon ladies. Jump on the bandwagon. Let’s make it the norm again.to show respect in church. Most women don’t wear one nowadays, not because they object to them but because they were never taught what they mean. :

 

[Auntie_M]

No offence Auntie but I believe you are taking Paul and myself out of context. Pauls goal in 1 corinth 11 is to bring conformity back to the churchs. He is writting this letter because while it is manditory for head coverings within the Church the women however in Corinth are not following this because in Greek society women would normally worship without a head covering. He goes on to show that the head cover is a signe of the womens relationship to the Church and to man. He does the same for man. Men, dominate show Christs active role in relation to his Church while women, submissive show the passive role of the church with respect to its savior.

In verse six Pauls says women shoudl wear a veil or have their head shaved. Yet however if the women finds this shamful to have her hair cut off or shaved off then she is to wear a veil. The reason for why it would be shameful is because women with cropped or cut hair was a style only worn by lesbians, or prostitutes. Basically Paul is saying wear the head cover, or if you dont want to wear the head cover shave your head. yet if you dont want to be bald or looked at by others to be a lesbian or a prostitute then wear the head cover.

Also in relation to the length of Christ hair you are putting a modern view on what is an acceptable length for men to wear their hair. In that time period Christs hair was normal length for males and not considered long like a womens. Womens acceptable hair length was past their shoulders or down to their hips. If a women had hair as short as Christs she would be looked at as either being a prostitue or a lesbian. Any man wearing his hair past his sholders or down to his hips would most likely be looked at as one who suffers from gender confusion.

I was stressing the importance of obedience when following the written Word, and the Tradition of the Church. If I wanted to pick and choose certain parts and follow those only then I wouldn’t be Catholic, or following God. I would be following myslef and a God made in my image. Not the best thing to do
If I were a women I would wear the head covering since it is an act of humility and a singe of submission to your Savior.

Interesting take on the “prostitute/Lesbian” thing. Since this was the “custom” at the time, for both men and women, should we then go by the custom of today? (incidently, I don’t think I have ever read anything anywhere that the length of the hair was associated with lesbianism/prostitution/ or homosexualism). Joan of Arc cut her hair off and I don’t think she was looked upon as a lesbian. You cannot throw everybody in the same wastebasket.

Since the custom of today, both women and men wear their hair long or short depending on their likes/dislikes. I don’t think they do this intentionally to displease God or show Him disrespect. Styles and fashion for both genders has evolved quite steadily over the years. For instance, wigs for men started in the courts long ago. Women wore pants in World War l, when they had to take on “mens” jobs while their men were away at war. Women who ran machines had to cut their hair in order for them not to get caught in machines and have their hair ripped from their heads. Did all this “fashion” displease God. He gave us all a mind to use and judgement to decern.

The best way to “show” your reverence to God is not judging your fellow man or woman. If it makes one happier and feel more holy to wear a veil then by all means. But it doesn’t have the same effect on everybody. Some have a more inward relationship with God and do not need that outward appearance. (the Bible verse…example…" go to your closet and pray in private and you will be rewarded openly)

Read on…verse 16…Chapter 11…lst Corinthians

“But if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we do not have such a custom, nor do the churches of God”. This was Paul actually saying that they did not have that custom. So to stress obedience to the written word…you should NOT follow this custom.

Read your church history on when veils actually came into being. The heads of women were covered not to show reverence, but to divert their eyes back toward the altar and away from their neighbors who they were talking with.

 

[Hopeful23]

I"m in a college town and there are about 5 of us who wear mantillas or head coverings to the student mass. Since the population of the church fluctuates so much I can’t keep track of how many people are but needless to say I get really weird looks when I go back home to mass with my parents where I’m the only one my age and the only one who isn’t Hispanic to wear one. I really wish there were some more traditional masses here in North Florida but I love being able to humble myself before my King.

 

[Heliotropium]

Interesting take on the “prostitute/Lesbian” thing. Since this was the “custom” at the time, for both men and women, should we then go by the custom of today? (incidently, I don’t think I have ever read anything anywhere that the length of the hair was associated with lesbianism/prostitution/ or homosexualism). Joan of Arc cut her hair off and I don’t think she was looked upon as a lesbian. You cannot throw everybody in the same wastebasket.

Since the custom of today, both women and men wear their hair long or short depending on their likes/dislikes. I don’t think they do this intentionally to displease God or show Him disrespect. Styles and fashion for both genders has evolved quite steadily over the years. For instance, wigs for men started in the courts long ago. Women wore pants in World War l, when they had to take on “mens” jobs while their men were away at war. Women who ran machines had to cut their hair in order for them not to get caught in machines and have their hair ripped from their heads. Did all this “fashion” displease God. He gave us all a mind to use and judgement to decern.

The best way to “show” your reverence to God is not judging your fellow man or woman. If it makes one happier and feel more holy to wear a veil then by all means. But it doesn’t have the same effect on everybody. Some have a more inward relationship with God and do not need that outward appearance. (the Bible verse…example…" go to your closet and pray in private and you will be rewarded openly)

Read on…verse 16…Chapter 11…lst Corinthians

“But if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we do not have such a custom, nor do the churches of God”. This was Paul actually saying that they did not have that custom. So to stress obedience to the written word…you should NOT follow this custom.

Read your church history on when veils actually came into being. The heads of women were covered not to show reverence, but to divert their eyes back toward the altar and away from their neighbors who they were talking with.

Auntie while styles of hair change I was simply stating the reason for why Paul was stating why some women would find it shameful to shave their head. Regardless of changing hair styles this does not void the fact that Paul still says for a women to not cover her head during Mass is a to bring disgrace upon her head, and the reason she does is because she is not showing where she stands in the position of authority. The very act of wearing the vail is an act of humility, and a representation like I said earlier of the submissive role the church plays in regard to its savior. A women wearing the head covering is part of a womans duty while participating in the liturgy.

Furthermore I do not judge anyone especially women who do not wear head coverings. I was just stating that I do not understand why women don’t when it is instructed to do so in the Bible or even why women have a problem wearing a head covering (other than maybe it attacks their pride to show submission). Either way woemn who wear head veils do not do so to “feel” holy, or to make up for their lack of an inner relationship with God. I hope you were not implying this because if you were I feel you would owe them an apology. I was also not implying that women who do not wear head coverings are lacking an inner relationship with God. In fact the very reason for why you would say such a thing or imply that’s what I was attacking is beyond me. If you felt that I was attacking ones who do not then I apologize. Also my friend to wear a covering to divert attention from ones self and to redirect it to the altar is a signe of reverence to God

In conclusion you have your reason and I believe others have their own. I pass no judgment on you, or your personal relationship with God. If you thought I did then I apologize again for this was not my intention.

 

[Auntie_M]

Auntie while styles of hair change I was simply stating the reason for why Paul was stating why some women would find it shameful to shave their head. Regardless of changing hair styles this does not void the fact that Paul still says for a women to not cover her head during Mass is a to bring disgrace upon her head, and the reason she does is because she is not showing where she stands in the position of authority. The very act of wearing the vail is an act of humility, and a representation like I said earlier of the submissive role the church plays in regard to its savior. A women wearing the head covering is part of a womans duty while participating in the liturgy.

Furthermore I do not judge anyone especially women who do not wear head coverings. I was just stating that I do not understand why women don’t when it is instructed to do so in the Bible or even why women have a problem wearing a head covering (other than maybe it attacks their pride to show submission). Either way woemn who wear head veils do not do so to “feel” holy, or to make up for their lack of an inner relationship with God. I hope you were not implying this because if you were I feel you would owe them an apology. I was also not implying that women who do not wear head coverings are lacking an inner relationship with God. In fact the very reason for why you would say such a thing or imply that’s what I was attacking is beyond me. If you felt that I was attacking ones who do not then I apologize. Also my friend to wear a covering to divert attention from ones self and to redirect it to the altar is a signe of reverence to God

In conclusion you have your reason and I believe others have their own. I pass no judgment on you, or your personal relationship with God. If you thought I did then I apologize again for this was not my intention.

I understand you were not “passing judgement” per se, but you have misinterpreted the Bible passage. Please read on to the end of that chapter. Paul is saying that “we do not have that custom, nor do the Churches of God”.

If I “implied” that you HAD to wear a veil to feel more holy, then I am sorry if anyone may have misunderstood. Although, I have read posts where people have said just that, that it makes them feel more holy. We are all different and have different needs, as I said, if that is what you prefer, then by all means. BUT, it is not what the church teaches as an act of holiness or submission. Please read the history on veils and you will see why the church started the custom in the the first place.

JPII wrote an encyclical about the “equality” of men and women. This is not a “feminist” thing. That is why we fight for the right of unborn babies. We are all God’s children and we all each have our strengths and weaknesses. Just as God is our head doesn’t mean we don’t need our feet.

 

[Archangelum]

We have two parishes in my city and the total is 0 women.

 

[Heather_Barrett]

I purchased my veil to wear just to the TLM. But I soon began to feel naked without it whenever I was in the church! So I now wear it whenever I am in church–for Mass, prayers, adoration, Confession, or any other reason.

Putting on the veil when I enter, and removing it when I leave is just a small signal that the church is truly a sacred space and that I should show special reverence to God when I am there.

Such a small little act, such a simple piece of fabric and lace–but it has made an enormous difference for me and my relationship with God!

 

[weepixie71]

I do- (wear a mantilla or hat) and i would say from observation in my parish that out of 100 women none wear a headcovering. It is at times awkward and I do get stares sometimes but I do it only out of respect and love for our Lord. I also genuflect before recieving on the tongue- only 3 of 200 people (average genuflect) before receiving in my parish. What are your novus ordo parishes like? Thanks everyone!

i just want to let you know you are not alone. i normally go to a tridentine mass but we are only allowed for now to have low masses, so for holy days of obligation i have to go to a novus ordo. i wear my mantilla and genuflect before i receive communion. i got stares at first but now they are used to me. i think they just chalk me up to quirky. its a great chance for me to offer up my sufferings for an act of humility.

 

[sarahraegraham]

I purchased my veil to wear just to the TLM. But I soon began to feel naked without it whenever I was in the church! So I now wear it whenever I am in church–for Mass, prayers, adoration, Confession, or any other reason.

Putting on the veil when I enter, and removing it when I leave is just a small signal that the church is truly a sacred space and that I should show special reverence to God when I am there.

Such a small little act, such a simple piece of fabric and lace–but it has made an enormous difference for me and my relationship with God!

I couldn’t have said it any better or more simply. These are my sentiments exactly.

 

[Pandora]

I wear a veil in Church all the time no matter which Mass. Only older women have come up to me with anything to say and it is not kind.

 

[slyboots]

Auntie M said “Interesting take on the “prostitute/Lesbian” thing. Since this was the “custom” at the time, for both men and women, should we then go by the custom of today? (incidently, I don’t think I have ever read anything anywhere that the length of the hair was associated with lesbianism/prostitution/ or homosexualism). Joan of Arc cut her hair off and I don’t think she was looked upon as a lesbian.”

Nope Joan was considered a sorceress and a heretic. They didn’t burn her for being a lesbian. Since she also wore men’s clothing which is forbidden Biblically then that was enough to get her burned. Oh yeah and she heard voices…

Back to the matter at hand…My Dh prefers that I wear scarves rather than mantillas. But in the summer I really prefer to wear the mantilla which is slightly less warm. I used to wear a nice black one but my Dh asked me not to as it looked like something a widow would wear. So being blond, I got an ivory one which is less noticable and he likes a little better.

And Pandora I am sorry that is happening to you.

 

[mullenpm]

I always wear a head covering when I enter church; whether for Mass or for Confession or for Adoration.

Before Vatican II I wore a hat or a scarf; then I discovered the Mantilla while traveling in Spain. After that I always wore my Mantilla.

I carry a small handbag and the Mantilla takes up space so I found a site online where I purchased a Buchari Style Kippah (I call it a chapel cap since head coverings know no religion). It is so beautiful I would now wear nothing but. The one I have is ivory in color but I am going to order a black one.

Either way, I wish more women would wear head coverings. As EvelynMilne said - V2 did not say that women should discontinue covering their head when they enter church - the feminists did - and I am much too old to listen to them.

So, a head covering it is and always will be.:byzsoc:

:harp:

 

[Auntie_M]

This really sounds more like a fashion statement going on. Maybe we need a fashion show.

 

[ac_claire]

This really sounds more like a fashion statement going on. Maybe we need a fashion show.

Bitter, bitter, bitter…

If you don’t like covering, Auntie M, then don’t do it. It’s not that complicated. But please have some respect for the other (sincere) participants in this discussion.

 

[Auntie_M]

Bitter, bitter, bitter…

If you don’t like covering, Auntie M, then don’t do it. It’s not that complicated. But please have some respect for the other (sincere) participants in this discussion.

Dear, I was not showing disrespect. I was analyzing, and if you will read over these last few post, you may come to the same conclusion. “I have a very cute one”. I have a beautiful one" " My grndmother has so many beautiful veils" Cute and beautiful?

If one was really “sincere” about wearing one for the Glory of God, then the question of “How many” or what it looked like would not even come up in the discussion. God doesn’t look at your outside appearance. It’s what’s in your heart that counts. I honestly do not think God is keeping score on “How many”. Then should we. If you want to wear a veil, as I have said before…by all means wear one. But don’t try to judge another or “keep score” of who all do and don’t…

That is not honoring God.

 

[yellowdaisy]

I am 26 years old. I’ve never worn one before. I’m actually feeling really really drawn to do so after spending two days on this forum. I told my husband about it last night, that I think my daughter (who is 2) and I will be wearing them in the very near future. He seemed surprised but didnt object.

I can only imagine what my mother will say when next we are in church together!

What (if any) is the difference between the mantilla and a lace doily on the head? Many older women in the parish I grew up in wear a scrap of lace pinned to their head in church. Quite honestly, I always thought it was just an older person fashion-- I had no idea it had religious context at ALL! (but then again, I was born in 1983, so I think most people no longer did at that time).

 

[lizaanne]

I am 26 years old. I’ve never worn one before. I’m actually feeling really really drawn to do so after spending two days on this forum. I told my husband about it last night, that I think my daughter (who is 2) and I will be wearing them in the very near future. He seemed surprised but didnt object.

Good for you!! God bless you in this very personal devotion!

I can only imagine what my mother will say when next we are in church together!

What a great opportunity to teach her what you have learned here!

What (if any) is the difference between the mantilla and a lace doily on the head?

The shape of the veil really is the only difference. A mantilla is typically a Spanish style, a long rectangle shape that goes past your shoulders. A chapel cap is a round doily shape that sits on the top of your head. A chapel veil is typically a triangular shape that is pointed in the back and over your shoulders.

Color does not matter and has no significance.

Do a Google Image Search for the three different terms I have above and you will see what they look like.

Oh - and don’t let people like Auntie M bother you - you will always find people who like to make a big deal out of nothing.

~Liiza

 

[mullenpm]

AuntieM, you are right. This thread did turn into a fashion statement. Sorry!

Of more interest is the actual question - how many women here wear a headcovering to a Novus Ordo Mass.

The Pauline (NO) Mass is a legitimate form of the Mass as celebrated in a Catholic Church by a Catholic Priest; also by our Holy Father in Rome. Why would the form of the Mass preclude we women showing respect to our Heavenly Father by covering our heads when entering his house.

 

[lizaanne]

AuntieM, you are right. This thread did turn into a fashion statement. Sorry!

Sooo - I suppose it is preferable and more appropriate to wear some ugly rag on our heads when appearing before the Creator of the Universe?

I make sure I am attractive and well dressed for my husband, why would I do any less for my God?

There is absolutely NOTHING to apologize for if a woman chooses an attractive head covering as long as her intent is in the right place.

~Liza

 

[mullenpm]

lizaanne, please don’t return innocent remarks with angry responses. :nope:

Let us just concentrate on the purpose of the thread.:grouphug: