How much can you trust psychology?

[CopticChristian]

People are thinking the same old way about self esteem. How can any psychologist honestly say that self-esteem is more important than loving esteem is beyond me.

Self-esteem is from Satan. Satan says self-esteem is good and people believe it as a part of “science.” The concept of self is an illusion and it is evil! We are the temples of the Holy Spirit where “self” has no place.

Bottom line: People who look at the world through the eyes of high esteem are going to be better adjusted than people bogged down with the evils of self-esteem.

Robert,

You are filled with generalizations. Psychologists are claiming that self-esteem is more important thatn loving esteem. It is beyond me that you can say this.

Self is evil. God created me. God don’t make no junk.

You then add High esteem to self-esteem and declare this an evil of self-esteem.

Wow…

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Self is evil. God created me. God don’t make no junk.

The “self” most people refer to was not created by God at all, but by mental constructs erected as a result of our upbringing. This is called the ego, aka the false self. The ego is a dualistic, competitive and self-centered entity and is not our true identity.

Our real selves were made in the image of God. But that is fixed and is of immeasurable value, and nothing we can do changes it so it is a non-issue psychologically. The “self” of popular psychology is, in fact, the false self.

Jesus said we must deny ourselves. That must mean we either deny what God has given us, or that our “selves” were not God-given. Of course it’s the latter.

Matt 16:24-24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Mark 8:34-35
He summoned the crowd with his disciples and said to them, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and that of the gospel will save it.

Luke 8:23-24
Then he said to all, “If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it.

Jesus said we must lose ourselves. Some say we must elevate our self-esteem. I think I’ll stick with Jesus on this one.

Alan

 

[randirhoades]

**
In the mental health field once you are labeled with a DSM IV diagnosis then you may as well have the Scarlet Letter on your chest because forever and a day you are never cured and it is never resolved…it is a bad system…
**

Dear Friend,

In some cases that may be true but in others it helps. I go to both. One prescribes medicine to relax me which is nothing than a prescribed allergy pill. By the way, it also helps my allegies. The things I suffer with mostly are grief and sorrow and clinical depression and two pain meds to help with my Fibromyalgia and all the symptoms that I have from it. And they are many.

My Pyschologist cannot prescribe medicine and she goes to my Catholic Church. What we delve in and try to conquer is getting me to be stronger so I will no longer be a “doormat” to my abusive family. To also be stronger to fight for being bullied, traumatized and victimized. I feel in my heart there is going to be a showdown with Attorneys and the third party taking care of Dad’s assets. Moreover, we get down to the nitty gritty of my childhood and what is going on with me to this day. (Not seeing my Dad, finances, etc. and how to deal with them. Plus, other issues for my benefit.) But she never uses any mumble jumble nor any type of things to alter the mind. Further, I see her more as my friend than her being in her specialty field. And this may make you think we are loons but we sing and dance out the door when I leave. She tells me she looks forward to my visits because I make her laugh. Which is real.

Other times and with different people it is something I do to hide my pain whether it be sorrow or physical. Been doing it for 15 years because my family has always wanted me to be perky and not hear my suffering so I don’t say anything. I’ve conditioned myself to do that. And my Counselor is trying to make me strong about that too. Saying I don’t have to talk to those people except to say hi and that’s it. In her office, I can let my guard down, be myself and wish with my might I could stay with her all day.

She has uncovered things about myself like layers of an onion that I did not know I had and we work on it one problem at a time. Plus, we talk about God all the time and what He says in matters important. She is well versed. Sometimes we pray in her office.

Now on the other hand, my Psychiatrist’s visits are short but still I can tell her problems, not many and she listens and sometimes suggests alternatives that can help me. For example, housing, people who help with bills and what not. And also she doesn’t use any type of mind altering equipment.

I guess we get all get down to the reality of the situations and work on them for the betterment for me.

One more thing, I do not take a lot of medication. I want to think with my mind that is not clouded. Meds I do take softens the pains pertaining to my sadness and physical sever pains. I’m disable. God softens those things extremely more and I pray to Him all the time. Suffering is in this world to stay but Jesus helps us get through it. That I do know and believe. Yet, being human, I wish I didn’t have problems that sometimes make me cry. Especially for the loss of not seeing my Dad who is my heart for over a year now. He is my heart. Both women I see help me with that.

Many blessings and love ya’ll,
Sheila is my real name.

 

[Jesusismyfriend]

Well, since you bring it up, here’s my very own personal problem with hypnosis and, by extension, most of society these days.

Our enlightened Western culture has forgotten “the invisible” part of the creed.

We think (include myself of 7 years ago in this estimation) that all inspiration comes from us is filtered by us and is emitted by us.

Some of the more “religious” bring a god into the equation, but there is always some understood safety mechanism. A belief that our brains do not allow us to do that which we do not want to do.

Hypnotism has been “proven” to be “completely safe” in this way, I have been told time and again.

Here’s the rub.

What if most of the human experience over time and throughout the world *isn’t *wrong?
What if there are “powers and principalities” that not only exist, but are bent on our destruction?

When we empty ourselves - when we let go of control without inviting God in specifically as we do do in prayer; what else can find its way in?

I’m not offended if you pooh-pooh this.
If I had not seen what I have, I would be the first to do so.

If you do see… *some *logic in this, please do just consider filling the voids in your life with God.

The rest really does fall into place.

Peace and Blessings.

I actually agree with you. That is why I was asking. In my case, I was put on a number of pills that seemed to do more harm than good. I believe God posseses an infiinite amount of power, whereas psychologists or psychologists are merely human. So they cannot figure out every one’s problem.

 

[Jesusismyfriend]

Well, people have told me a person’s issues being the result of childhood abuse is false. People in different churches have said this. They say Satan wants to make me believe lies so I will turn my back on my family. So he let a demon possess or attack me.
\I think a lot of Job and his struggles. He lost everything, and went through a ton of emotional and physical pain. Satan was allowed to harm him and everything he had. He could not, however, take his life. And I don’t think Satan would have been allowed to send a demon to possess him either. Job belonged to God. Satan was allowed to cause tragedy in his life, but he did not have full control of his brain.
I guess that’s why I struggle with the idea of mental illnesses being caused by demons. I know they are out there. They do possess unbelievers. But can they possess a believer? Job still was saying, “Blessed be the name of the Lord,” and still held on to his faith. He questioned, but he did not curse God. Wouldn’t a person possesed by a demon curse God? Isn’t that why Satan allows demon possesion?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Robert,

You are filled with generalizations. Psychologists are claiming that self-esteem is more important thatn loving esteem. It is beyond me that you can say this.

Self is evil. God created me. God don’t make no junk.

You then add High esteem to self-esteem and declare this an evil of self-esteem.

Wow…

Caught that in this active listening session did ya?

 

[mamaslo]

Robert Sock,
What advice would you give to someone who believes they are unlovable?

Even Pope JP2 said that therapy was good for us.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Robert Sock,
What advice would you give to someone who believes they are unlovable?

Even Pope JP2 said that therapy was good for us.

Perhaps give them a hug and tell them everyone is loved. I woulds also tell them that God love them and that someday they will be in Heaven.

 

[mamaslo]

Perhaps give them a hug and tell them everyone is loved. I woulds also tell them that God love them and that someday they will be in Heaven.

I have had someone consistently tell me that for years, and for some reason it just doesn’t sink in.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Well, people have told me a person’s issues being the result of childhood abuse is false. People in different churches have said this. They say Satan wants to make me believe lies so I will turn my back on my family. So he let a demon possess or attack me.

I don’t know who told you that, but a person’s particular childhood is a huge, even primary factor in issues people have. The issues are the attacks, are they not? Or did you mean it differently?

I think a lot of Job and his struggles. He lost everything, and went through a ton of emotional and physical pain. Satan was allowed to harm him and everything he had. He could not, however, take his life. And I don’t think Satan would have been allowed to send a demon to possess him either. Job belonged to God. Satan was allowed to cause tragedy in his life, but he did not have full control of his brain.

On the first day I met my first SD, he told me that I was a technical person and it was hard for me to believe or comprehend something that I couldn’t understand. He told me to read Job 38-42 and it totally mortified me.

God decides He’s going to personally put Job in his place, and the Good News is, it worked and at the end Job is not only restored, but given riches. God basically attacked Job with a barrage of unanswerable questions about mysteries beyond anybody’s knowledge, and Job finally surrendered. Once Job quit trying to think on his own, God gave him perfect thinking and vision as His gift.

I guess that’s why I struggle with the idea of mental illnesses being caused by demons. I know they are out there. They do possess unbelievers. But can they possess a believer?

I use the concept of “demon” but I never put it into writing so I’ll spell it “daemon.” In the computer world, daemons are programs that run on a computer and give the computer its behavior, or its “personality” you might say. Together the programs and daemons are like the “operating system” of a brain. Now whether supernatural or not, a force that changes your thinking by altering your brain waves (which incidentally can mean you’re living too close to a high voltage electric line) affects behavior in ways totally unique to the person experiencing it and the situation.

That way if I’m talking to a religious person they think I’m talking about “demons act like this” or whatever, and to technical I’ll say, “the memes and daemons cause x output shift.”

That way I can’t get hurt by either the religious side or the technical side, if I straddle both grooves, if you know what I mean. Similar experience, different explanation using different vocabulary and associated tradition.

Job still was saying, “Blessed be the name of the Lord,” and still held on to his faith. He questioned, but he did not curse God. Wouldn’t a person possesed by a demon curse God? Isn’t that why Satan allows demon possesion?

Oh, no. Not necessarily. Satan loves to make it seem you’re blessing when you’re not. Or get you blessing the wrong thing or saying the blessing in the wrong way, or otherwise interject some sort of Bad Attitude or Selfishness or whatever into the blessing. He can also communicate to you subliminally at a level more subtle and mysterious, but he’s no match for the HS so keep the faith, and like I say stay tied to the Church. She is your rock.

Alan

 

[Robert_Sock]

I have had someone consistently tell me that for years, and for some reason it just doesn’t sink in.

It has to happen in company of the Holy Spirit for it to sink in.

 

[mamaslo]

It has to happen in company of the Holy Spirit for it to sink in.

What makes you think the Holy Spirit wasn’t there?

 

[Jesusismyfriend]

People are thinking the same old way about self esteem. How can any psychologist honestly say that self-esteem is more important than loving esteem is beyond me.

Self-esteem is from Satan. Satan says self-esteem is good and people believe it as a part of “science.” The concept of self is an illusion and it is evil! We are the temples of the Holy Spirit where “self” has no place.

Bottom line: People who look at the world through the eyes of high esteem are going to be better adjusted than people bogged down with the evils of self-esteem.

I agree that I don’t completely agree with their view on self-esteem also. It does cause you to fix your eyes on yourself instead of God and others. And sometimes Jesus seemed to think Christians should be passive. Not completely passive. They should be able to speak against things that are not right. “be wise as serpents and gentle as doves.” The gentleness suggests that some people needed to be dealt with passively. Others need to be dealt with using wisdom. And not being afraid and backing down.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well, people have told me a person’s issues being the result of childhood abuse is false. People in different churches have said this. They say Satan wants to make me believe lies so I will turn my back on my family. So he let a demon possess or attack me.
\I think a lot of Job and his struggles. He lost everything, and went through a ton of emotional and physical pain. Satan was allowed to harm him and everything he had. He could not, however, take his life. And I don’t think Satan would have been allowed to send a demon to possess him either. Job belonged to God. Satan was allowed to cause tragedy in his life, but he did not have full control of his brain.
I guess that’s why I struggle with the idea of mental illnesses being caused by demons. I know they are out there. They do possess unbelievers. But can they possess a believer? Job still was saying, “Blessed be the name of the Lord,” and still held on to his faith. He questioned, but he did not curse God. Wouldn’t a person possesed by a demon curse God? Isn’t that why Satan allows demon possesion?

First sentence is certainly not infallible. Abuse isn’t your situation, is it?

When you say different churchs? Are these Catholic? IMHO these churchs are entertaining your fears and anxiety and I don’t see how this is helping you. Certainly these are not Catholic. Have you taked to a Catholic Priest?

You have heard voices since childhood?

Did you open a window for evil, satanic rituals. anything?

Have you sought a second opinion?

First time with treatment? First Doctor?

Has any med ever worked or is this the first time?

Are you taking the meds exactly as prescribed?

Are you self-medicating along with the meds for this situation?

Have the meds been taken long enough to take effect?

Are the auditory hallucinations increasing, decreasing, remaining the same?

Do you pray, use Holy Water and Sacramentals? What happens then?

Have you ever been in a psychiatric unit before, or is this something new?

As far as evil with Catholic’s, use the search engine here I’m sure theres a lot of info.

My own opinion would be those who remain in a State or Garce or close it constantly? No I don’t believe so. Not possession, subjected to temptation and evil manifestation for sure.

 

[mamaslo]

Even the Church gets a psychiatric evaluation before they even go down the path assuming evil is the reason for voices etc.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Even the Church gets a psychiatric evaluation before they even go down the path assuming evil is the reason for voices etc.

Most certainly. And yes I suppose there’s Doctors who just can’t wrap their head around supernatural. Thats why I keep saying Catholic. Its not a knock on anyone for sure, I just know they are very aware and proceed correctly with this.

 

[graciew]

QUOTE=AlanFromWichita;9249657]“Chemical imbalance” is a cliche for alleged causes of many types of mental illness that are without physical damage to the brain. It makes it seem like the people who become psychotic, like me, just do so randomly because of some “chemical imbalance.” .

This is not medically correct in various cases of depression,to give you an example.
You have gone through very bad experiences,but not every psychologist is like that.
I´ve had no experience with psychiatrists.

I call it the result of a lifetime with verbal abuse. Many of us are taught, especially in religion, (at least a few years back) that they were basically worthless scum and we don’t deserve anything, blah blah blah. In that case, I’d call it “toxic religion,” not lack of self-esteem.

Then the “toxic religion” you understood or were taught as you are pointing out,has favoured the belief that self esteem is unimportant so you were prone to accepting the unacceptable.Result,very low self esteem.Cause all in all you are saying to yourself you are worth nothing.

It’s a science, but it’s also an industry – greedy and ruthless as any industry. The worst thing that could happen to psychology and psychiatry is that there is a cure that does not require medicine or long term professional counseling. Even the thought of it, and whoever said it is burned at the stake.

Alan

I respect your experience and your thoughts,but it is your experience and your thoughts…

 

[AlanFromWichita]

This is not medically correct in various cases of depression,to give you an example.
You have gone through very bad experiences,but not every psychologist is like that.
I´ve had no experience with psychiatrists.

If you’ve had no experience with psychiatrists, then why are you talking about brain chemistry? That’s not the expertise of a psychologist. The fact is, pschiatry has a pretty hit and miss record of actual healing anybody, but they do “effectively treat” which means the symptoms are held artificially under control by psychoactive medication, but true healing is from God or if you prefer, good psychology. It isn’t from medicine.

Then the “toxic religion” you understood or were taught as you are pointing out,has favoured the belief that self esteem is unimportant so you were prone to accepting the unacceptable.Result,very low self esteem.Cause all in all you are saying to yourself you are worth nothing.

I have a lot to say about the way religion was taught and demonstrated when I was young. I’m not sure exactly how I’d explain my ideas on this, because I have strong preferences but never put them into words. I’ll not try too hard just now, lest I sidetrack the thread.

I respect your experience and your thoughts,but it is your experience and your thoughts…

True, but anybody who knows me has seen the transformation, including my pastor and my psychiatrist. My experiences are completely healthy and getting even better at a rapid pace. This was something that medicine said couldn’t happen. A Federal Judge aptly found me totally and pernanently disabled due to mental illness. I’m saying that the Lord took me on a trajectory that healed me. I can also help others find comfort, and love to do it when I get the chance.

Just call me … Cinderella Man: the manic depressive who walks in the rain – Rush

Alan

 

[graciew]

If you’ve had no experience with psychiatrists, then why are you talking about brain chemistry? That’s not the expertise of a psychologist

Because they work with your doctors as well,not necessarily psychiatrists,if the case does not require it.

I have a lot to say about the way religion was taught and demonstrated when I was young. I’m not sure exactly how I’d explain my ideas on this, because I have strong preferences but never put them into words. I’ll not try too hard just now, lest I sidetrack the thread

This is the best one wants to hear,and I am glad you have found the path to healing.
The only thing that worries me about this thread,is that one can´t run away from medical help as a principle,though I do understand not every psychologist/iatrist hits the nail. As somebody said,even priests undergo therapy if they need to.

 

[graciew]

AlanFromWichita;9251629]If you’ve had no experience with psychiatrists, then why are you talking about brain chemistry? That’s not the expertise of a psychologist.

I am saying this because a doctor can help the psychologist as well with medicine.

I have a lot to say about the way religion was taught and demonstrated when I was young. I’m not sure exactly how I’d explain my ideas on this, because I have strong preferences but never put them into words. I’ll not try too hard just now, lest I sidetrack the thread

I can understand this,and its consequences.

True, but anybody who knows me has seen the transformation, including my pastor and my psychiatrist. My experiences are completely healthy and getting even better at a rapid pace. This was something that medicine said couldn’t happen. A Federal Judge aptly found me totally and pernanently disabled due to mental illness. I’m saying that the Lord took me on a trajectory that healed me. I can also help others find comfort, and love to do it when I get the chance.

This is great testimony and I am glad for you,Alan.

Just call me … Cinderella Man: the manic depressive who walks in the rain – Rush

Very meaningful…I liked the song.Nobody can steal your dreams.Maybe nobody is trying to,just they do not understand them.

My only concern in this thread,is that it is not advisable in my opinion and experience,to run away from psychologists/iatrist by default.Cause I may of course understand how it worked,for you,but sometimes,in my experience,God wants you to trust these areas of science as well.I have often seen how people have worsened just by seeing the devil everywhere and kind of undergoing religious gluttony to find answers,when in fact,they could have been healed by medicine.And this does not mean I am right,I am sharing my perspective only.