How much can you trust psychology?

[AlanFromWichita]

Please don’t call me harsh if you can’t see things from both sides. Frankly, Alan’s post strike me as calling me an idiot and I don’t kindly to such insinuations.

I’m not insinuating anything. You inferred. :ehh:

Then again, if the shoe fits … :tsktsk:

j/k

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You are dishonest with your illogic. You said only saints. I challenged you on it, and you want me to prove an assertion I didn’t make about every last sinner. You know, or should know, as well as I do that you changed the assertion you asked me to prove into one nobody would have made. So you can portray me as stupid, and apparently for no other motive I can think of.

Nitpicking my statements won’t save you. The fact remains you can’t just assume it’s the Dark Night for everybody (and it certainly isn’t something you can assume about my own trials in life).

You’ve tried contemplative prayer? Did you have a competent leader? I guess you’re right; it didn’t work. I’m sorry about that.

Look I’ve been through enough retreats and spoken to enough mentors to know what doesn’t work for me.

CCC 2708 says prayer life SHOULD progress to contemplative. Go argue with B16 if you don’t like it.

That depends on your definitions of ‘prayer life’ and ‘contemplative’. Clearly though, our definitions differ and no, don’t give me yours as if you’re the Church itself.

You stop him with the haughty attitude you’re demonstrating right here in this thread. God can’t help you if you are harboring grudges against others that Jesus died for.

Oh yes, I must be all powerful to be able to stop the almighty from getting into my head through sheer pride alone.

Even though I never had any to begin with.

Man, if God wants to send a miracle my way, he’s more than welcome to. However, who am I kidding? Who are you kidding? This is God. He’s mankind’s creator. Not genie.

You clearly have no idea what contemplation is, or you would understand about different ways to open our hearts and minds.

I know enough just from the passage of not putting the Lord to the test. Look it’s not what I want that matters when I ask God for something, it’s always what He wants. And apparently, if that means I have to find my solutions elsewhere, there’s nothing that I nor you can do about it.

Look, I have no idea what you want from me. I say prayer is helpful, in addition to medicine. I also ask that prayer not be dismissed as irrelevant. Those are my only two assertions; do you have a problem with either one?

Neither! You’re the one quoting me in the first place and thinking I’m initiating an attack on prayer. (Again, will you please, please, please read my first post on this thread). All I’ve been saying and have always been saying is that it doesn’t always worked for everyone. It worked for you. Fine. Whatever.

You’re you. You’re not me. Do yourself a favor and stop assuming that what works for you works for everybody.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

That depends on your definitions of ‘prayer life’ and ‘contemplative’. Clearly though, our definitions differ and no, don’t give me yours as if you’re the Church itself.

You want Church documents. CCC2708 said your prayer life SHOULD advance to the contemplative form. I think it’s precious how you think it was I who said that – if I only were worthy to write a paragraph in the CCC. hmmm…

Oh yes, I must be all powerful to be able to stop the almighty from getting into my head through sheer pride alone.

Yes. Now you are understanding it. The doctors of the Church described it.

Man, if God wants to send a miracle my way, he’s more than welcome to. However, who am I kidding? Who are you kidding? This is God. He’s mankind’s creator. Not genie.

I’m sorry you want the type of miracles a genie would perform. Those are nice but those aren’t the real miracles. Real miracles are acts of love and mercy.

You’re you. You’re not me. Do yourself a favor and stop assuming that what works for you works for everybody.

I totally love you. I think you’re totally cool. You stick to your guns, and you are very enthusiastic. It is a pleasure to exchange words with you.

Alan

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You want Church documents. CCC2708 said your prayer life SHOULD advance to the contemplative form. I think it’s precious how you think it was I who said that – if I only were worthy to write a paragraph in the CCC. hmmm…

How does this, in any shape or form, even address the fact that it depends on one’s definition of terms? I could say it works that way for me but you’ll just sigh and shake your head cuz I’m not some self-proclaimed spiritual guru.

Yes. Now you are understanding it. The doctors of the Church described it.

Right. So much for an all powerful creator to be stopped just by someone’s ego. (Despite said ego not even existing.)

Even though he, y’know, knocked a man blind off his high horse and then stepped up to a doubter a few decades prior.

I’m sorry you want the type of miracles a genie would perform. Those are nice but those aren’t the real miracles. Real miracles are acts of love and mercy.

Point. Not getting it.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

(Despite said ego not even existing.)

I mean, ahem. I’m glad you have found a way to get rid of your ego. You’re a step ahead of the rest of us.

 

[graciew]

QUOTE=AlanFromWichita;9256465]
I hope I answered the question.

Alan

Yes,Alan,you did answer my question.Thanks for your sincerity which has answered some of my unasked questions too./(sorry it was 3 pages way back)
Yes,I can picture the spot you are desribing cause I am your age it seems.
It was partly what you described as “stay away from it all” what I was all in all coming down to when one is in the middle of chaotic thinking.You followed their advice and it seemed to work. I wonder the part burn out played in your story,as I do wonder the part in played in mine.
anyway,thanks again.
Funny though how we can see the same picture from different perspectives.In one of you recent posts you describe the woman who had faith,good point.Yet,what I see is that even in faith ,she needed to “touch” Jesus´ clothes,in other words,use something “real” to connect her faith.Get it? And this did not make her less faithful,and it healed her.This identifies me better…Just something to think about.
Thanks,Alan.
Thanks all of you for your perspectives.

 

[Robert_Sock]

It is so unwise to place trust and faith in modern psychology when it lacks LOVE. You need religion to receive LOVE, not psychology. If you ever need a psychologist, do take the time and energy in finding someone who is religious and values spiritual LOVE.

 

[graciew]

F

Lord Almighty is free to have access to my heart and mind all He wants. What’s there for me to stop Him? Why would I stop Him? He is God. Every day I make countless wishes, while struggling with the daily grind of work, that somehow I get whisked away on a adventure to be free from it all. Everyday I send my thoughts of fear and anxiety out there for whatever spiritual being to hear.

I think that in some way or another,we are all there,or have been there.Call it work,call it illness,call it whatever one needs or has needed.
I do not think He is a genie or healing point as you say,but what I do believe is we can ask and we will receive,the issue is that what we want may not be what we need in HIs eyes.And His times can be real weird.Don´t ask me why cause I have no clue…

 

[graciew]

. If you ever need a psychologist, do take the time and energy in finding someone who is religious and values spiritual LOVE.

Yes,Robert,it is not only sth to recommend but something a serious specialist would definitely see as necessary. In fact when I asked if it was a weird requirement to ask for when I was looking for one,the director said it was not only not weird but absolutely in line with their principles to foster connection patient-therapist to share beliefs.How can they understand you if they do not know what you are talking about ?And I mean the place many of your choices have in relation to your faith.Sure,what you are saying is very important at least to me.