How much immorality is too much?

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jmcrae said:
Let me tell you a secret - a “lap dance” has nothing to do with dancing.
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Having been the recipient of many lap dances, and witnessed even more, in my experience unless a disease is airborne, a lap dance will not enable transmission. You seem to think they’re something they’re not. Perhaps it is not I who is naive.
jmcrae said:
They are less likely to do so if it would entail jail time and loss of their job and standing in the community.
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And you truly think that patronizing a strip club should lead to jail time and loss of one’s job? Wow, that smacks of tyranny to me.
jmcrae said:
What benefits to society would they be missing out on, if they were “forced” to engage in some kind of more wholesome activity, that doesn’t involve the objectification of women and children? 🤷
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Well, I’ve been to a number of strip clubs, and never saw a child even once. That notwithstanding, who are you to judge what is or is not wholesome? One mans trash is another mans treasure.
jmcrae said:
LEGAL prostitution would mean that your daughter or sister, if she finds herself unemployed, would not be eligible for unemployment benefits if she were to refuse to work as a prostitute.
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One generally has to seek a job to be offered one. I have yet to have a complete stranger walk up to me and offer me a job of any kind. And I have no problem with my daughter or sister becoming a prostitute if they so desire.
 
Seeker2010 said:
Well, I’ve been to a number of strip clubs, and never saw a child even once. That notwithstanding, who are you to judge what is or is not wholesome? One mans trash is another mans treasure.
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You missed the part about “objectifying”.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
You missed the part about “objectifying”.
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So what? You seem to have missed my entire post, merely pointing out one thing that I didn’t address. And there’s a reason I didn’t address it, in my experience nobody has ever explained to me exactly what ‘objectifying’ is, why it’s presumed, or why it’s bad. In fact, nobody has ever even made much of an effort to do so.

Perhaps you will be different.
 
Seeker2010 said:
So what? You seem to have missed my entire post, merely pointing out one thing that I didn’t address. And there’s a reason I didn’t address it, in my experience nobody has ever explained to me exactly what ‘objectifying’ is, why it’s presumed, or why it’s bad. In fact, nobody has ever even made much of an effort to do so.

Perhaps you will be different.
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It’s actually quite simple. If I tied you to a tree, loaded a magnum, and treated you as nothing more than target practice, then that is objectification right there.

In other words, I reduce you to something that is less than human.

And believe it or not, lusting after a woman is the same thing. You see someone as an object of sexual pleasure, you are reducing them to something that is less than human.

There, plain and simple.
 
Seeker2010 said:
So what? You seem to have missed my entire post, merely pointing out one thing that I didn’t address. And there’s a reason I didn’t address it, in my experience nobody has ever explained to me exactly what ‘objectifying’ is, why it’s presumed, or why it’s bad. In fact, nobody has ever even made much of an effort to do so.

Perhaps you will be different.
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“Objectifying” is when you see women and children as existing for your pleasure, without recognizing that they have wills and ideas of their own.

They are not dolls or pets to be dressed up, or undressed - they are people, just like you, and need to be treated like people (ie: the same way you would treat another man) - not like dolls or pets.

It’s clear that you have a real problem seeing women and children as fully human, if you think it would be okay for your sister or daughter to take up prostitution. 🤷
 
Seeker2010 said:
One generally has to seek a job to be offered one. I have yet to have a complete stranger walk up to me and offer me a job of any kind.
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Girls and young women are often approached by strangers offering money for sex - it’s part of being female. If such were legal, and they were receiving government assistance while looking for work, it would become illegal for them to refuse.
And I have no problem with my daughter or sister becoming a prostitute if they so desire.
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Don’t you think they deserve to be treated as human beings? 🤷
 
Moral relativism requires a personal set of ‘right and wrong’ behaviors and actions. The idea of a universal set of right and wrong behaviors regarding human sexuality are abhorrent.

Peace,
Ed
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
It’s actually quite simple. If I tied you to a tree, loaded a magnum, and treated you as nothing more than target practice, then that is objectification right there.
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Actually, that sounds like murder to me. But that’s just me.
Lost_Wanderer said:
You see someone as an object of sexual pleasure, you are reducing them to something that is less than human.
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You mean just as an object of sexual pleasure, no? Cause if you don’t see your spouse as an object of sexual pleasure (in addition to many other things), seems to me that’s a problem in and of itself.
 
jmcrae said:
“Objectifying” is when you see women and children as existing for your pleasure, without recognizing that they have wills and ideas of their own.

They are not dolls or pets to be dressed up, or undressed - they are people, just like you, and need to be treated like people (ie: the same way you would treat another man) - not like dolls or pets.
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Well, alrighty then. Based on this definition, I have never objectified anyone. Good to know, one less thing to worry about. For I treat all people with the dignity and respect any human being deserves.
jmcrae said:
It’s clear that you have a real problem seeing women and children as fully human, if you think it would be okay for your sister or daughter to take up prostitution. 🤷
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Let me clarify when I say ‘daughter’ I mean ADULT daughter. Children are not mature enough to make such decisions.

That said, generally I’m in favor of people doing what makes them happy, and if someone gains happiness from being a prostitute more power to them, regardless of who they are. You may claim such people do not exist, but I know better from personal experience.
 
jmcrae said:
Girls and young women are often approached by strangers offering money for sex - it’s part of being female. If such were legal, and they were receiving government assistance while looking for work, it would become illegal for them to refuse.
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I don’t know how often “often” is, but I just asked my wife if it had ever happened to her, and it has not ever, even once. And given the places she’s lived during her life, and her above average physical appearance, you would think that if it was commonplace, it would have happened to her.

Notwithstanding that, I’d personally have no problem making that particular career path an exception to the rule.

I wonder, though, considering that pornography is currently legal, how many women get into issues with their unemployment because they turned down an offer to do porn? Has it ever happened, even once, anywhere? I highly doubt it.
jmcrae said:
Don’t you think they deserve to be treated as human beings? 🤷
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Of course I do, don’t you think everyone does?
 
jmcrae said:
Yes, which is exactly why I don’t think pornographic magazines, strip clubs or prostitution should exist.
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Well, this will come as a shock to you, but I can testify from first hand experience that porn actors and actresses, strippers, and yes, even prostitutes participate voluntarily, of their own free will, and are happy and satisfied with their choice of careers. Sure, some may be unhappy about it, in fact I’m certain that’s true, but that’s true regardless of what profession you are speaking of. I’m sure there are priests who abhor their jobs.

And I’d tell an unhappy stripper the same thing I’d tell an unhappy priest. Find something you like and do it, even if it means less money. Money isn’t everything.
 
Seeker2010 said:
Well, this will come as a shock to you, but I can testify from first hand experience that porn actors and actresses, strippers, and yes, even prostitutes participate voluntarily, of their own free will, and are happy and satisfied with their choice of careers. Sure, some may be unhappy about it, in fact I’m certain that’s true, but that’s true regardless of what profession you are speaking of. I’m sure there are priests who abhor their jobs.

And I’d tell an unhappy stripper the same thing I’d tell an unhappy priest. Find something you like and do it, even if it means less money. Money isn’t everything.
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I’m quite familiar with that mindset, and it’s nothing but a con job - there are very few people who go to a strip club or watch/read pornography because they think the girls are witty and wise - they are purely there for the turn-on, and they don’t care about the girls at all - the girls are just “the product.”

Indeed, as the latest ad for the porn channel says, “You won’t be watching them for their acting skill.”
 
Seeker2010 said:
Actually, that sounds like murder to me. But that’s just me.
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It’s just to illustrate a point. Both murder and lusting after somebody reduce the human person to something less. It doesn’t matter if it’s seeing you as nothing more than a piece of meat for target practice or seeing a woman as simply an object of desire, the thought process is the same.
Seeker2010 said:
You mean just as an object of sexual pleasure, no? Cause if you don’t see your spouse as an object of sexual pleasure (in addition to many other things), seems to me that’s a problem in and of itself.
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Spouses =/= Strippers

Also, it’s still wrong if you see any person as nothing but a tool for sexual pleasure and that includes your spouse.

It’s an ever worse case though with strippers and prostitutes who are solely seen as sex toys. You can’t justify it. Period.
 
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