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livnlern
Guest
It always strikes me as odd that “adult entertainment” has nothing whatsoever to do with mature adult behavior.
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LittleSoldier
Guest
But how can someone know if something they read or watch is “obscene” (my term) until they read or watch it? And isn’t it important to know what other people watch? How else can we promote better standards re morality? Should we all move separately into the wilds of Montana, build our own cabins ala Kaczynski, separate from other people with only a bible to read and a lantern or candle to read it by once the sun goes down?
Aren’t we supposed to be making positive changes to society? You know a lot about TV shows that I’ve never even heard of and you say they are immoral. So I know you’ve watched them. Are you watching them so you can tell others they are immoral? There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, if that is what you’re doing. You’re obviously not a child and can probably handle “immoral” situations in TV shows.
Is this what you’re doing? Knowing the enemy?
BTW, my brother-in-law bought a DVD of a show that was similar to MST3000, except that there were no restrictions on language (and maybe more). The first time a certain word was used I said “strike one,” the second time I said “strike two” and the third time I said “strike three - yer outta here!” and my brother-in-law shut the tape off. I did find it offensive and immoral and there were children present, although they were actually in their late teens and knew what these words meant. Those three “violations” occurred during the first few minutes of the program. I have no idea what was on the rest of the DVD and I really don’t want to know.
I don’t think it was an appropriate program to watch. For myself it would never be an appropriate tape to watch; in fact it made MST3000 much less enjoyable for me because I loved that show and one reason is that it didn’t have immorality in it.
But do I have the right to tell other people that they can’t watch this tape? Does the Church still ban movies and books (if so, she should ban Portnoy’s Complaint IMHO)? I know the Church did this a long time ago and I was not happy with its policy. But I did respect it, as a Catholic. But does the Church have the right to demand that non-Catholics not watch shows or read books the Church has deemed inappropriate?
I can understand the Church putting out a list of banned books, shows, etc. But I question whether watching or reading something on that list would be a sin. And I can also see it backfiring - I would bet that a lot of people would read Portnoy’s Complaint just because it would be on the banned list. Isn’t this the opposite of what the Church wants to happen?
I’m just throwing this in. I don’t have any answers or solutions. But I am interested in what you think about all this.
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LittleSoldier
Guest
Oh, Seeker, why did you have to go and post that? 
Do you really have no problem with your own daughter or own sister becoming a prostitute? Maybe it would help this discussion if you defined exactly what you mean by “prostitute” - do you mean a high-class call girl, or a run-away teenager who is selling her body so that she can eat, being abused by those who have relations with her, and being smacked around by her pimp?Prostitution is a horrible way to live. We aren’t meant for the degradation that prostitution causes. Also, it’s illegal almost everywhere, at least in the U.S.
I’m confused by your answer and also quite disappointed. Would you please clarify?
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Seeker2010
Guest
Of course that’s what I mean, as nobody would ‘choose’ the latter, while many do ‘choose’ the former. Not everyone finds sex for money to be degrading, and if a friend or family member of mine was doing it out of a legitimate choice, then I’d have absolutely no problem with it. In fact, your ‘runaway teenager’ scenario, while horrible, is actually a good reason to legalize prostitution, for at least if it’s legal, entities will be held to reasonable standards.
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edwest2
Guest
The Church has made statements about movies and books to Catholics.
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_29061936_vigilanti-cura_en.html
newadvent.org/cathen/07721a.htm
The Church has always concerned itself about media and its impact on the education, conscience and morals of the people.
Peace,
Ed
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_29061936_vigilanti-cura_en.html
newadvent.org/cathen/07721a.htm
The Church has always concerned itself about media and its impact on the education, conscience and morals of the people.
Peace,
Ed
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LittleSoldier
Guest
Thanks for the clarification. You are correct that nobody would choose the latter (I don’t know why I didn’t think of that. It’s the pain meds. Uh, that’s it! Er, um, I’m sure it’s the, uh, pain meds’ fault that I wrote something stupid. Yeah, that’s it - I’m sure of it! It’s those pain meds!! Darn those pain meds always getting me in trouble).
I learned a bit about prostitution in college and one of the reasons stated for legalizing it is that it would provide protection from STDs. And this was before HIV and AIDS showed up (or at least nobody recognized them yet). It would be interesting to learn more about the situation where prostitution is legal (in the U.S.) and find out the laws which regulate this behavior.
There is a big difference between a prostitute in the part of Nevada where it is legal and a prostitute selling her body for 10 bucks or some drugs after standing on a corner in the night in Hollywood. I’ve been addicted to legally prescribed medication and I am telling the truth when I say that I would have prostituted myself just to get that medication. Drugs can do that to us.
Still, I would be very unhappy if either of my sisters or any of my nieces (or brother and nephew and son for that matter) became a prostitute, even if it was in a high-class call girl organization which provided protection and medical care. I still think it would be degrading and I still believe that we aren’t meant for that sort of thing. But there’s a reason why it’s called “the world’s oldest profession.” It’s not going to stop.
I know we aren’t going to agree on this subject, but I just don’t think humans are put on this earth to sell their bodies. I think it’s disrespectful to the person selling her body and to God, in whose image we are formed.
Thanks again for the clarification.
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LittleSoldier
Guest
Speaking of immorality, once I was on an online auction forum (I don’t believe it was eBay) and I clicked on the wrong link and found myself in the “adult entertainment” section. What amazed me was the number of people who were selling tapes they had made themselves, in their own bedrooms.
It’s gone way beyond professionally made tapes. Now anyone can make a DVD and sell it. I can’t go into detail about what I saw in that section of the auction forum because to be honest, some of it made me ill. And I had thought that I was pretty much knowledgeable about what people do.
Wow, was I wrong! Some of those practices are absolutely disgusting. But what bothers me more than that is that I think people are buying those DVDs and watching them. And people are buying items other than DVDs, too. Again, I can’t go into detail.
I don’t recommend that anyone go to any “adult entertainment” site. I really wish I had never seen it. And it’s very easy to find or to make a little mistake by clicking on something and then you end up there. I wonder about children finding those sites. If I had found one when I was a kid I would have been absolutely horrified and very, very frightened.
It’s gone way beyond professionally made tapes. Now anyone can make a DVD and sell it. I can’t go into detail about what I saw in that section of the auction forum because to be honest, some of it made me ill. And I had thought that I was pretty much knowledgeable about what people do.
Wow, was I wrong! Some of those practices are absolutely disgusting. But what bothers me more than that is that I think people are buying those DVDs and watching them. And people are buying items other than DVDs, too. Again, I can’t go into detail.
I don’t recommend that anyone go to any “adult entertainment” site. I really wish I had never seen it. And it’s very easy to find or to make a little mistake by clicking on something and then you end up there. I wonder about children finding those sites. If I had found one when I was a kid I would have been absolutely horrified and very, very frightened.
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kenofken
Guest
Ironically, the glut of amateur porn is the bane of the porn industry these days. An old friend of mine and his wife are professional pornographers based in Vegas these days and it’s a complaint I hear from industry people all the time. Nobody wants to pay for content when there’s a billion sites where people upload their own stuff for free.Speaking of immorality, once I was on an online auction forum (I don’t believe it was eBay) and I clicked on the wrong link and found myself in the “adult entertainment” section. What amazed me was the number of people who were selling tapes they had made themselves, in their own bedrooms.
It’s gone way beyond professionally made tapes. Now anyone can make a DVD and sell it. I can’t go into detail about what I saw in that section of the auction forum because to be honest, some of it made me ill. And I had thought that I was pretty much knowledgeable about what people do.
Wow, was I wrong! Some of those practices are absolutely disgusting. But what bothers me more than that is that I think people are buying those DVDs and watching them. And people are buying items other than DVDs, too. Again, I can’t go into detail.
I don’t recommend that anyone go to any “adult entertainment” site. I really wish I had never seen it. And it’s very easy to find or to make a little mistake by clicking on something and then you end up there. I wonder about children finding those sites. If I had found one when I was a kid I would have been absolutely horrified and very, very frightened.
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livnlern
Guest
There has to be a real lack of empathy here for anyone to think it’s okay to become a prostitute. Put yourself in the place of the call girl. You can’t tell me that she doesn’t feel degraded by having sex whenever with whoever just to make some money. Forcing yourself to be really intimate with people you don’t know would be shocking and horrible. You’d be treated like an inanimate object to be used for someone else’s sick pleasure.
You’re fooling yourself if you think this is acceptable for anyone, much less someone you care about like a friend or a loved one.
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Seeker2010
Guest
I know, personally, people who do so of their own free will and desire. I also know people who are in the porn business voluntarily, of their own free will and desire. You may believe it’s an unattractive way to earn a living, others very much disagree. You are presuming that just because you think something every body else does, too, and that’s not a reasonable presumption.
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
Let’s just stop all this silly posturing and cast off the last restraints. More immorality!
Conform yourself to the world, not to Christ. Of course there’s free will to perform in porn—in fact let’s have some porn aimed at underage kids.
Wait a minute, I was just in a movie theater. They’re already doing that.
But just move along, nothing to see, no standards to uphold. Do as you will. Didn’t Aleistair Crowley say that? It’s more fun to follow him than Jesus. And it’s all about fun, isn’t it.
Conform yourself to the world, not to Christ. Of course there’s free will to perform in porn—in fact let’s have some porn aimed at underage kids.
Wait a minute, I was just in a movie theater. They’re already doing that.
But just move along, nothing to see, no standards to uphold. Do as you will. Didn’t Aleistair Crowley say that? It’s more fun to follow him than Jesus. And it’s all about fun, isn’t it.
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edwest2
Guest
Please look up the words decency and modesty in the dictionary. Wrong choices are still wrong choices even if a few find them acceptable. I understand why some people find it acceptable. The usual reason is turning to other people for guidance as opposed to turning to God. Souls are at stake here, and there are other, uglier aspects.
ncregister.com/daily-news/obama_administration_eases_ban_on_funds_for_sex_trafficking_groups
Peace,
Ed
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livnlern
Guest
You may know people personally who do these things, but that doesn’t make it right. Do you really, in your heart of hearts believe that those people are unaffected by what they’re doing? Do you think they’re happy or even contented by their lifestyle?
I have to wonder how many of those people you talk about are alcoholics or drug addicts. How else could anyone deal with such a loss of personal dignity.
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Seeker2010
Guest
Likewise, you may find the idea abhorrent, that doesn’t mean others do.
From my observations, yes. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t know the whole industry, and I know without even being told that there are people therein who are not happy, because I know that’s true of all industries.
You are projecting. You find it undignified, therefore they do too, even if they won’t admit it to themselves, no? Codswallop.
To directly answer your question, to my knowledge, of the adult industry people that I know personally, none are alcoholics or drug addicts. Most of them use marijuana from time to time, and alcohol, as well, that I’ve personally witnessed, but I’ve never seen any indication of addiction, nor have I ever seen any hard drugs… Of course, I’m not with them 24x7, so I can’t completely rule it out, and I’m certain there are hard drug users within the ranks, but I don’t really hold that against people. Drugs should be legal, for if we don’t own our own bodies, what do we own.
But as I said, while I certainly know more porn stars than the average person, it’s but a fraction of the whole.
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livnlern
Guest
I’ll have to take your observations and assumptions as they are, since you know these people and I don’t. What you say is still filtered through what you believe.
But I’ll tell you that the porn stars that you talk about are living in the dark. Their bodies are alive but their souls are in total darkness. And you are as well if you think that there’s nothing wrong in what they do.
A much wiser person than I said, “The tendency of the flesh is toward death but that of the spirit toward life and peace. The flesh in its tendency is at enmity with God…If you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the spirit you put to death the evil deeds of the body, you will live”.
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edwest2
Guest
One of the greatest words of wisdom I have heard recently was this: “Your life is not your own.”
Peace,
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
To my fellow Catholics, see this book:
amazon.com/Pornland-How-Porn-Hijacked-Sexuality/dp/0807044520/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
Our normal sexuality has been taken by those who love Dysfunctional Living and perverted in every way imaginable. It can be argued that they are running out of ideas for degrading women and men.
Do not allow anyone to convince you that porn is just a job or a choice, like working in a car wash or a fast food restaurant. If sexuality, the gift, is turned into meaningless ‘just sex’ then it means nothing, or worse, it becomes a means to degrade others along with our ourselves.
Keep your conscience pure, focused on God and focused on the way of living Jesus taught us. By doing this, we will find normalcy and authentic human living.
Peace,
Ed
amazon.com/Pornland-How-Porn-Hijacked-Sexuality/dp/0807044520/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
Our normal sexuality has been taken by those who love Dysfunctional Living and perverted in every way imaginable. It can be argued that they are running out of ideas for degrading women and men.
Do not allow anyone to convince you that porn is just a job or a choice, like working in a car wash or a fast food restaurant. If sexuality, the gift, is turned into meaningless ‘just sex’ then it means nothing, or worse, it becomes a means to degrade others along with our ourselves.
Keep your conscience pure, focused on God and focused on the way of living Jesus taught us. By doing this, we will find normalcy and authentic human living.
Peace,
Ed
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kenofken
Guest
Yes, I’m away of that philosophy. It was the guiding light of kamikaze pilots and the young guys in the Middle East who keep blowing themselves up in market squares and checkpoints.
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jmcrae
Guest
That’s hilarious. If those who practice virtue for virtue’s own sake can’t put them out of business, maybe those who sin for sin’s own sake instead of for profit can put them out of business.
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edwest2
Guest
You are a child of God. God knows you and cares about you. He gave you life and you will meet Him when you die. The creature is not greater than the one who made him.
Peace,
Ed
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