How Much is Rome Worth To You?

[GregoryPalamas]

No. I have read about the western schism. I know it what a complicated issue where we simply had trouble determining who was the Pope. But that does not mean we should deny the teahings of the Church as so many East Catholics like to do now days. If the the Catholic Church is in error, then the promises of Christ are void and Christianity is false. I am trying to get you to do some thinking here.

If the RCs cannot err then how do you explain the American Church’s repression of the Eastern Catholic Churches or of the Tridentine Mass? Still you have not addressed the issue of the Schism nor of Otto.

God protects the Church as He pleases. While I understand ultramontanism it is not the only way He has protected His Church.

CDL

 

[East_and_West]

If the RCs cannot err then how do you explain the American Church’s repression of the Eastern Catholic Churches or of the Tridentine Mass? Still you have not addressed the issue of the Schism nor of Otto.

God protects the Church as He pleases. While I understand ultramontanism it is not the only way He has protected His Church.

CDL

No one ever said that the Catholic Church couldn’t error in pastoral decisions. We are talking about doctrine here though. The Church cannot teach error because as Christ said, “[The Holy Spirit] will guide you into all truth” and as paul says, the Church is, “The pillar and foundation of truth.”

 

[GregoryPalamas]

No one ever said that the Catholic Church couldn’t error in pastoral decisions. We are talking about doctrine here though. The Church cannot teach error because as Christ said, “[The Holy Spirit] will guide you into all truth” and as paul says, the Church is, “The pillar and foundation of truth.”

Supression of the Eastern Catholics would not be an issue of right doctrine. It would be an error. So what is your point?

CDL

 

[East_and_West]

Supression of the Eastern Catholics would not be an issue of right doctrine. It would be an error. So what is your point?

CDL

No one claims that that Catholic Church is infallibile in all her pastoral decisions. The infallibility is only with regard to dogma. Its always been this way, silly.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

No one claims that that Catholic Church is infallibile in all her pastoral decisions. The infallibility is only with regard to dogma. Its always been this way, silly.

Since the pope himself agrees that Eastern Orthodoxy and the Roman Catholic Church are one in dogma I don’t see it as a problem if Eastern Catholics leave if we are told we aren’t wanted.

CDL

 

[East_and_West]

Since the pope himself agrees that Eastern Orthodoxy and the Roman Catholic Church are one in dogma I don’t see it as a problem if Eastern Catholics leave if we are told we aren’t wanted.

CDL

Has he said that we are one in dogma since he became Pope?

And the councils already put you under anathema. You just don’t want to deal with that fact. Easier to stick to what is comfortable.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Has he said that we are one in dogma since he became Pope?

And the councils already put you under anathema. You just don’t want to deal with that fact. Easier to stick to what is comfortable.

Well, I have thought about putting you on my ignore list. I suppose it wouldn’t hurt.

CDL

 

[yeshua]

Well, I have thought about putting you on my ignore list. I suppose it wouldn’t hurt.

CDL

I believe I am with you on this one. He’s going around putting people under anathema, calling us un-Catholic and better suited as Protestants, and denouncing our Catholic beliefs. Where are the moderators?!

 

[holdencaulfield]

For me this is kind of like asking what we would do if Rome repudiated the Trinity. The Pope can’t dissolve the Eastern traditions, any more than he can dissolve the Middle Ages, or the Church Fathers, or World War II, or the conversion of Europe.

Peace and God bless!

It was a hypothetical question. Doesn’t mean there is even a .01% chance of it happening. I was just asking what you would do, if it did happen.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Since the pope himself agrees that Eastern Orthodoxy and the Roman Catholic Church are one in dogma I don’t see it as a problem if Eastern Catholics leave if we are told we aren’t wanted.

I think that the only problem would be is that you are separating yourself from the Rock of St. Peter.

 

[planter654]

For me this is kind of like asking what we would do if Rome repudiated the Trinity. The Pope can’t dissolve the Eastern traditions, any more than he can dissolve the Middle Ages, or the Church Fathers, or World War II, or the conversion of Europe.

Peace and God bless!

I agree and God Bless us all! I am a little child of God and what a stupid question period—looking for an arguement?

 

[holdencaulfield]

I agree and God Bless us all! I am a little child of God and what a stupid question period—looking for an arguement?

Why must everyone give me a hard time for asking a HYPOTHETICAL question. I just wanted to know what people would do if it did happen. Obviously it will not happen. That wasn’t the question.

 

[wynd]

For me this is kind of like asking what we would do if Rome repudiated the Trinity. The Pope can’t dissolve the Eastern traditions, any more than he can dissolve the Middle Ages, or the Church Fathers, or World War II, or the conversion of Europe.

Peace and God bless!

Hi Ghosty,

Can you show me where it is laid out that the Eastern Catholic churches enjoy such rights? I didn’t know they were that protected.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Hi Ghosty,

Can you show me where it is laid out that the Eastern Catholic churches enjoy such rights? I didn’t know they were that protected.

That’s an odd question to my way of thinking. It would be like telling Spanish people they can no longer speak Spanish. It’s not a right. It’s part of existence.

CDL

 

[holdencaulfield]

That’s an odd question to my way of thinking. It would be like telling Spanish people they can no longer speak Spanish. It’s not a right. It’s part of existence.

That is a good point. The Eastern Churches have always existed, so they must always exist, this is Ordinary Magisterium of the Catholic Church. To destroy them would mean that the Pope has fallen into heresy and lost the Catholic faith. Although they are much smaller then they used to be, they still exist nonetheless.

 

[Formosus]

Councils have already proclaimed that it is impossible to force Eastern Catholics to abandon their heritage. It is just as much part of Catholicism as the Latin heritage is and hence if the Church attempted to get rid of one, or the other, by force. Then she would not have actually be the Church.

 

[dessert]

This is a hypothetical question. This is only for Eastern Catholics. Lets say that all of a sudden for no reason the Pope dissolved all Eastern Catholic Churches and made them abide by the Roman Rite. What would you do? Would you stay in the Roman Catholic Church or leave?

I’m Latin rite.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches
Terminology
“Easter Catholics are in full communion with the Roman Pontiff, and in this sense are members of the Roman Catholic Church, etc…”
It also speaks of if there is not a counterpart Orthodox church.

Maybe if there were another Vatican Council, well that could change a lot of things, and it would not be for no reason. Our Pope does not do things for not reason or without prayer. It brings up a question though if the Orthodox would accept the Eastern into their rite?
Blessings

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I think that the only problem would be is that you are separating yourself from the Rock of St. Peter.

I think you have it wrong here. If this were to happen it would be the Rock of St Peter separating itself from us.

 

[dessert]

I agree 100% but I think the point of the question was that if Rome decided that it no longer recognized the tradition of the Byzantines or the Orientals and that all Christians must accept the tradition of the Latins what would you do. The pope can’t dissolve the tradition of the east but he could certainly return to the attitude of popes like Benedict XIV who basically thought to be Catholic was to be Latin and the Eastern Churches were lower forms of Christianity. The goal of the popes before was basically to make the Eastern Churches latin in every respect.

I would probably join the Oriental Orthodox Church myself if Rome decided to go back to the approach - complete latinization - of the past popes.

Really? I thought it (goal) was to draw the Eastern away from the Orthodox. But then why did they go to the English language?
Pope John Paul II wanted unity most. I have no idea where this new Pope is headed.

Sounds like a typical Latin Catholic.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I’m Latin rite.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches
Terminology
“Easter Catholics are in full communion with the Roman Pontiff, and in this sense are members of the Roman Catholic Church, etc…”
It also speaks of if there is not a counterpart Orthodox church.

First, wikipedia is not an authoritative source. It us user driven so what is found there is not guaranteed to be correct and in this case it is very, very wrong.

The Eastern Catholic Churches are sui iuris, which means we are our own Church separate from the Latin (or Roman) Catholic Church. We have our own hierarchy, our own Code of Canons, and our own particular laws. We are in communion with the Pope as supreme pontiff, not with the other two hats he wears (Bishop of Rome and Patriarch of the West (or Latin Church)).

Maybe if there were another Vatican Council, well that could change a lot of things, and it would not be for no reason. Our Pope does not do things for not reason or without prayer. It brings up a question though if the Orthodox would accept the Eastern into their rite?
Blessings

When reunification occurs between Rome and the Orthodox Churches the Eastern Churches will cease to exist, we will reunite with our Mother Churches.

The Orthodox would gladly accept us back (as they do today) if we come to them.