I disagree, for other mental disorders, its very important for the afflicted person to recognize they do have a disorder, only then can progress be made in dealing with it.I asked whether it is prudent to suggest that a homosexual pray to a saint for a mental disorder.
Being mindful of how one can be perceived is beneficial, especially when it comes to approaching people living in sin. Also, what good comes out of telling a gay person struggling to live chastely that they have a mental disorder? Does a homeless person need to be told they don’t have a mailing address?
Throwing the Catechism at someone’s face is not very helpful, IMHO.
The Catechism doesn’t say gays and lesbians have a screw loose in the head and/or are incapable of perceiving reality. Maybe because it might instead turn the person away from seeking God’s mercy.
Wanna see how far you get when you tell a gay/lesbian person they have a mental disorder?I disagree, for other mental disorders, its very important for the afflicted person to recognize they do have a disorder, only then can progress be made in dealing with it.
The same is true with addictions, the first step in recovery is to admit you do have a problem.
Everyone needs to live in reality with the fullest knowledge of their affliction in order to combat it with the most effectiveness. The Catechism doesn’t say that homosexuals are lunatics because that is not the disorder that homosexuals are dealing with.I asked whether it is prudent to suggest that a homosexual pray to a saint for a mental disorder.
Being mindful of how one can be perceived is beneficial, especially when it comes to approaching people living in sin. Also, what good comes out of telling a gay person struggling to live chastely that they have a mental disorder? Does a homeless person need to be told they don’t have a mailing address?
Throwing the Catechism at someone’s face is not very helpful, IMHO.
The Catechism doesn’t say gays and lesbians have a screw loose in the head and/or are incapable of perceiving reality. Maybe because it might instead turn the person away from seeking God’s mercy.
Prayers offered.I’ve struggled with SSA throughout my life, and when I was coming to know the truth, I did look for a saint that dealt with it, but never found any, so since then it’s been my goal to one day be that saint.
firstthings.com/article/1994/11/gay-marriage-reimagining-church-historyI’m sure these ceremonies were done in heretical sects; this is the 1st I’ve heard of any reference to these actions. Found the link to this from a fb post:
christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/whensamesexmarriagewasachristianrite.html
At the end of this article, the “The Secret Gospel of Mark, The Other Bible”, Willis Barnstone, is referenced, which confirms my suspicions.
lgac.org/marriage/unions.html
“Same Sex Unions in Premodern Europe,” by John Boswell, Appendix of Translations.
I’m not interested in getting into a rebuttal war on fb, but we should be able to refute these things when/if they come up, as they likely will. Folks such as Boswell will probably not accept the fact of the consistent teaching of the Church.
Happy Holy Week!
Mimi
That is one of those times where literal translation of the Latin can result in something being quite technically accurate and yet fail to be misunderstood by pretty much everyoneSelfishness is not a mental disorder. A mental illness (disorder) is defined as, “Any of various psychiatric disorders or diseases, usually characterized by impairment of thought, mood, or behavior”. Homosexual tendencies are recognized as a mental disorder (removed from the DSM due to social pressure, not scientific evidence) and the statistics of the mental & physical health of homosexuals support this.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church also recognizes it as a disorder in 2358, “The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.” It says the inclination is objectively disordered while the acts are intrinsically disordered.
Not everyone has a mental disorder. Having a fallen nature in which we are prone to sin doesn’t mean we are mentally ill. Homosexuals need to know the truth just as much as we do, and the truth is that homosexual tendencies are a mental disorder. There is a patron saint for mental disorders, so it is only natural that they should have recourse to her intercession. They don’t have to, but they are under her jurisdiction so to speak.
cccb.ca/site/images/stories/pdf/ministry-ssa_en.pdfDistinguishing Inclinations from Actions
6. In her teaching, however, the Church never condemns persons with same-sex attraction. She carefully distinguishes between an individual’s inclinations or feelings – some of which are transitory and/or situational and others which are deep-seated or permanent – and one’s actions. While homosexual acts are always objectively wrong, same-sex inclinations are not in themselves sinful or a moral failing. To the extent that a same-sex attraction is not freely chosen, there is no personal culpability in having such an inclination. Nonetheless, **when oriented toward genital activity, this inclination is “objectively disordered.”**10 This does not mean that the person as a whole is somehow defective or “badly made,” or that he or she has in some way been rejected by God. Inclinations to homosexual acts in no way diminish the full human dignity or intrinsic worth of the person. For many people, same-sex attraction constitutes a trial. They therefore deserve to be approached by pastors with charity and prudence.
Thank you very much, prayers for you as well. God bless!Prayers offered.
Then I implore you that should a situation arise where you meet a homosexual who is not Christian and will not have the understanding of the Christian/Catholic faith and will 99% take umbrage at the usage and connotation of “mental disorder”, you keep these thoughts in the silence of your heart.Everyone needs to live in reality with the fullest knowledge of their affliction in order to combat it with the most effectiveness. The Catechism doesn’t say that homosexuals are lunatics because that is not the disorder that homosexuals are dealing with.
Simply because someone will not like the truth when you tell it doesn’t mean that you should keep them ignorant of it. We all are entitled to the truth whether it is a pleasant truth or not.
I don’t think I will. If I know it to be scientifically true, then I am going to state it should it come up in conversation. The homosexual community has lied to itself and society by making them believe their acts & attraction is natural and just like heterosexuality. I cannot in good conscience perpetuate this lie. True charity is bringing people to the truth and helping them attain salvation, not letting them feel comfortable in falsehood.Then I implore you that should a situation arise where you meet a homosexual who is not Christian and will not have the understanding of the Christian/Catholic faith and will 99% take umbrage at the usage and connotation of “mental disorder”, you keep these thoughts in the silence of your heart.
Categorizing people and sinners as “us vs them”, “mentally disordered vs mentally fit” serves no purpose other than to make us feel like we’re on the right, holy side.
How charitable and merciful is it to use words that one knows will be misconceived?
The Church has never said homosexuality is a mental illness.I don’t think I will. If I know it to be scientifically true, then I am going to state it should it come up in conversation. The homosexual community has lied to itself and society by making them believe their acts & attraction is natural and just like heterosexuality. I cannot in good conscience perpetuate this lie. True charity is bringing people to the truth and helping them attain salvation, not letting them feel comfortable in falsehood.
Yes, but as I quoted earlier from the Catechism, the Church says that homosexual tendencies are objectively disordered. The Church doesn’t necessarily say it is a mental disorder since the Church isn’t a medical organization, but science has recognized homosexual tendencies as a mental disorder.The Church has never said homosexuality is a mental illness.
Probably the same type of response you would get from a hardcore alcoholic or drug addict who will not even admit they have a problem.Wanna see how far you get when you tell a gay/lesbian person they have a mental disorder?
The Church said desiring gay sex is disordered as the object of the tendency is disordered, not that loving someone of the same sex is disordered or that being gay is disordered.Yes, but as I quoted earlier from the Catechism, the Church says that homosexual tendencies are objectively disordered. The Church doesn’t necessarily say it is a mental disorder since the Church isn’t a medical organization, but science has recognized homosexual tendencies as a mental disorder.
The Church said that the homosexual inclination is disordered, and being gay means you have this disordered inclination. Of course the Church doesn’t say that loving someone of the same sex is disordered since that would mean I couldn’t love my father or brothers. Besides, even if the Church didn’t say homosexual inclinations are disordered, they are medically considered to be a mental disorder.The Church said desiring gay sex is disordered as the object of the tendency is disordered, not that loving someone of the same sex is disordered or that being gay is disordered.
Yes gay people are tempted towards gay sex sometimes, but that isn’t the entirety of being gay or even most of it, instead it is a small part just like how heterosexuality is only partially about sex.The Church said that the homosexual inclination is disordered, and being gay means you have this disordered inclination. Of course the Church doesn’t say that loving someone of the same sex is disordered since that would mean I couldn’t love my father or brothers. Besides, even if the Church didn’t say homosexual inclinations are disordered, they are medically considered to be a mental disorder.
I agree. I am hard pressed to believe there aren’t already Saints who had a homosexual orientation. That said, I am sure most of them would have hidden it. Acceptance of homosexuality as a normal variation of human sexuality is a very very recent thing, as you know.A very interesting question. It would have to be an example of one who heroically dealt with the challenge of chastity.
And, since it’s really a question of chastity, saints like Augustine and Francis are already good examples.
But a saint who dealt with same-sex attraction? I wonder if there are already some?
In 2016, this is inaccurate. Decades ago, it was considered accurate, but those decades aren’t coming back any time soon.The Church said that the homosexual inclination is disordered, and being gay means you have this disordered inclination. Of course the Church doesn’t say that loving someone of the same sex is disordered since that would mean I couldn’t love my father or brothers. Besides, even if the Church didn’t say homosexual inclinations are disordered, they are medically considered to be a mental disorder.
What do you mean with heterosexuality & being gay extending beyond sexuality?Yes gay people are tempted towards gay sex sometimes, but that isn’t the entirety of being gay or even most of it, instead it is a small part just like how heterosexuality is only partially about sex.
Homosexuality is not considered to be a mental disorder.
It is as accurate now as it was then. Homosexuality was removed from the DSM due to social pressure, not due to scientific evidence. Homosexuality fits the definition of a mental disorder and it is still considered a mental disorder in other countries such as Indonesia. If you look at the mental health of homosexuals, it is considerably worse than the average person according to the statistics, and this is not due to social stigma since it is seen even in very gay-friendly countries.In 2016, this is inaccurate. Decades ago, it was considered accurate, but those decades aren’t coming back any time soon.
What is often ignored about that revision is that there was in fact a lot of new scientific evidence that homosexuality was not a mental illness.What do you mean with heterosexuality & being gay extending beyond sexuality?
According to the current DSM it is not, but it was only removed because of pressure from homosexual lobbyists, not due to new scientific evidence.
There were no scientific arguments presented when alterations to the DSM were being considered. After severe social pressure, the APA folded to the scientifically-ungrounded demands. Perhaps some studies were abused to help the homosexuals within & without the APA to support the removal of homosexuality from the DSM, but no scientific studies could support such an act without being misconstrued. Besides, American psychiatrists aren’t the only psychiatrists in the world. Other psychiatrists consider homosexuality a mental disorder. Here is an article that explains how homosexuality was removed from the DSM. It begins in the fourth paragraph.What is often ignored about that revision is that there was in fact a lot of new scientific evidence that homosexuality was not a mental illness.