How much longer before the Church recognizes a homosexual Saint?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Abba
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Confiteor_Deo said:
There were no scientific arguments presented when alterations to the DSM were being considered. After severe social pressure, the APA folded to the scientifically-ungrounded demands. Perhaps some studies were abused to help the homosexuals within & without the APA to support the removal of homosexuality from the DSM, but no scientific studies could support such an act without being misconstrued. Besides, American psychiatrists aren’t the only psychiatrists in the world. Other psychiatrists consider homosexuality a mental disorder. Here is an article that explains how homosexuality was removed from the DSM. It begins in the fourth paragraph.
Click to expand...
Michael Voris and company for those who don’t know are hard right zealots who border on heretics, they discard evidence that doesn’t support their views and write character assassinations of clergy, they even target Catholic Answers. Why would I trust stuff written by people who slander and defame Catholic clergy, endorse anti-Semites (Michael Jones), accept CIA infiltration of the Church, and who doesn’t love benevolent Catholic dictatorship.

What they failed to mention is that over the preceding two decades there was evidence snowballing that homosexuality was not a mental illness and that previous research showing it be a mental illness was flawed due to mostly studying men who had actual mental illnesses.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
Michael Voris and company for those who don’t know are hard right zealots who border on heretics, they discard evidence that doesn’t support their views and write character assassinations of clergy, they even target Catholic Answers. Why would I trust stuff written by people who slander and defame Catholic clergy, endorse anti-Semites (Michael Jones), accept CIA infiltration of the Church, and who doesn’t love benevolent Catholic dictatorship.

What they failed to mention is that over the preceding two decades there was evidence snowballing that homosexuality was not a mental illness and that previous research showing it be a mental illness was flawed due to mostly studying men who had actual mental illnesses.
Click to expand...
The article I linked to, while being on Church Militant’s site, is actually from Huffington Post. I would note that I have been following Church Militant closely for some time and I assure you, they are completely faithful to the Magisterium. They never attack without sufficient reason to do so. Catholic Answers & the clergy have given them reasons. They abhor the corruption & heterodoxy that has infiltrated the Church and are attacking it, which I think is very needed.

The other studies had many homosexuals with mental illnesses because homosexuals have a higher rate of mental & physical health issues to begin with. They have a significantly higher risk of suicide, depression, drug use, and STD’s, among other issues. This is according to studies & medical reports from the past 2 decades.
 
Tim_D said:
Would you really want the Church to canonize someone simply for the reason that they were homosexual? Should the Church embrace the same foolish progressive agenda that has seen a systematic disassembling of moral society?
Click to expand...
A saint is in Heaven whether they are canonized or not. Canonizations are for the benefit of the Church on Earth and not the Church in Heaven, which is already perfectly safe and perfectly happy

So, although the canonization would go through the ordinary channels, it won’t be surprising if there is a saint with known homosexual struggles in the next few decades. St Gianna Molla lived in a time when the world was transitioning over to a culture of death, and she is now a canonized lay woman who was a wife, doctor, and died giving birth out of sacrificial love.

Ultimately, the Holy Spirit will act as He sees fit over his sheep.
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
The article I linked to, while being on Church Militant’s site, is actually from Huffington Post. I would note that I have been following Church Militant closely for some time and I assure you, they are completely faithful to the Magisterium. They never attack without sufficient reason to do so. Catholic Answers & the clergy have given them reasons. They abhor the corruption & heterodoxy that has infiltrated the Church and are attacking it, which I think is very needed.

The other studies had many homosexuals with mental illnesses because homosexuals have a higher rate of mental & physical health issues to begin with. They have a significantly higher risk of suicide, depression, drug use, and STD’s, among other issues. This is according to studies & medical reports from the past 2 decades.
Click to expand...
onthemattersofpapistry.blogspot.ca/2015/12/from-vorisite-to-barronite-why-i-left.html

Here is the thing, having a higher likelihood of mental health issues doesn’t make it a mental illness. LGBT people who are rejected by their parents have far higher risks of mental health issues, physical health issues, suicide, depression, drug use and STDs.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
onthemattersofpapistry.blogspot.ca/2015/12/from-vorisite-to-barronite-why-i-left.html

Here is the thing, having a higher likelihood of mental health issues doesn’t make it a mental illness. LGBT people who are rejected by their parents have far higher risks of mental health issues, physical health issues, suicide, depression, drug use and STDs.
Click to expand...
Church Militant has ample evidence when criticizing heterodoxy in the clergy. If it is never revealed, it is never fixed. Besides, many orthodox Bishops & priests support Church Militant.

The problems that are associated with homosexual inclinations are not present due to rejection from parents. Homosexuals could live in a very accepting environment of homosexuality yet they will still suffer from various mental health issues.
 
I have to admit that as one who has always identified as bisexual, the issue of sexuality is something I’ve struggled with where the Church is concerned. Mental illness of any description is something that seems to be incredibly taboo in a religious context, and it’s part of what makes me question why I should return to the Church (among other things). I have difficulty with physical attraction regardless of gender, so remaining chaste isn’t the issue. It’s feeling like I’m inferior to those who are “straight.” A role model saint to help me deal with these issues and see an example of how to live ny life with the mindset that I have been given would be amazing.
 
Well a saint is canonized when it is clear they have lived a life to become one…and then there is the miracle requirement.

Anyone who the Church was going to canonize could not logically be actively gay. They could have been in the past, but in order to not be sinning they would have had to stop. Plus, then actually be a saint in general…and given the population of the earth vs amount of saints we know…not a great number.

I would suggest looking deep into the ex-sinner saints, you may find something questionable in a past? idk.
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
Church Militant has ample evidence when criticizing heterodoxy in the clergy. If it is never revealed, it is never fixed. Besides, many orthodox Bishops & priests support Church Militant.

The problems that are associated with homosexual inclinations are not present due to rejection from parents. Homosexuals could live in a very accepting environment of homosexuality yet they will still suffer from various mental health issues.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Unfortunately activists are everywhere pushing the tedious agenda for a tiny number of people.

Of course the REAL issue is totalitarianism because forcing a minority issue on the majority allows the State to dominate the people. It’s. That. Simple. Getting involved in boring arguments which have no facts distracts from what’s going on.
 
Abba said:
We sure need one. It would be nice for people with homosexual tendencies to have a saint as guide and who they can pray to for intercession.
Click to expand...
John Henry Newman has been beatified.
 
Michael_Allen said:
John Henry Newman has been beatified.
Click to expand...
It is kind of absurd to call any saint before the 19th century gay or homosexual as heterosexuality hadn’t been invented yet nor had the concept of gayness or someone being homosexual.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
It is kind of absurd to call any saint before the 19th century gay or homosexual as heterosexuality hadn’t been invented yet nor had the concept of gayness or someone being homosexual.
Click to expand...
Hmm. That sounds a bit like saying it is absurd to suggest anyone could have suffered from bipolar disorder before it was named as such. Clearly some men were attracted to other men, and even had sex with other men, long before the term ‘homosexual’ was coined. Things don’t only start when we name them. If they weren’t there to begin with we wouldn’t have anything to name.
 
P.S. Not that I am suggesting that homosexuality is a disorder (I think we know better than that now, though prejudice in society takes a long time to overcome - often with the passing of a generation). I just use bipolar disorder as an example of where certain conditions of human behaviour clearly exists before they are named in particular ways.
 
With so many Saints,I’m sure there would be varying tendencies
 
Michael_Allen said:
Hmm. That sounds a bit like saying it is absurd to suggest anyone could have suffered from bipolar disorder before it was named as such. Clearly some men were attracted to other men, and even had sex with other men, long before the term ‘homosexual’ was coined. Things don’t only start when we name them. If they weren’t there to begin with we wouldn’t have anything to name.
Click to expand...
Sodomy was in fact consider a vice any could fall to. Before the Victorian era friendship was considered the highest love. In England for example it was perfectly it was perfectly acceptable for men to cuddle in the same bed and write love letters to each other even after sodomy laws were put in place. The terms heterosexuality and homosexuality don’t make sense for a time when people seeking love in same sex relationships is normal and praiseworthy, while sex is only for the opposite sex.
 
Don’t feed the activist troll. It’s all about control and responding means you’re playing the game.
 
Prodigal_40s said:
I ignore people who try and push agendas which have no place in an ordered society. Ok?
HTH
Click to expand...
Yeah I understand but the comment didn’t really come off that charitable. I didn’t see the comments of the two posters arguing before and assume you are talking about one of them? I don’t see an agenda (maybe a disagreement?) since both appear to support catholic teaching and morality but differ on particular subset of issues.
 
at9009 said:
Yeah I understand but the comment didn’t really come off that charitable. I didn’t see the comments of the two posters arguing before and assume you are talking about one of them? I don’t see an agenda (maybe a disagreement?) since both appear to support catholic teaching and morality but differ on particular subset of issues.
Click to expand...
Engaging with people who are clueless about Church teaching is a waste of time. Familiarize yourself with the truth. The Catholic Church is not a debating society and the agenda was always to separate and divide.
I don’t care if you find this uncharitable. It’s the truth and the fact is that same sex attraction (itself and not the individual) is wrong and the activities (all non procreative activities), including unions are not acceptable. Check Pope Francis recent exhortation to confirm this
 
Prodigal_40s said:
Engaging with people who are clueless about Church teaching is a waste of time. Familiarize yourself with the truth. The Catholic Church is not a debating society and the agenda was always to separate and divide.
I don’t care if you find this uncharitable. It’s the truth and the fact is that same sex attraction (itself and not the individual) is wrong and the activities (all non procreative activities), including unions are not acceptable. Check Pope Francis recent exhortation to confirm this
Click to expand...
So, as far as I am aware, neither person was saying that same sex sexual attraction was a good thing (I think they were debating over calling it a mental illness or not which by medical standards it’s not, i.e. inclination to sin does not equal mental illness but that is largely irrelevant to any morality question). How do you expect to actually evangelize people if your attitude is basically they are not worth the time or effort. If someone is wrong, you correct them with brotherly love. Not dismiss them.
I don’t care if you find this uncharitable.
Click to expand...
The uncharitable part isn’t the message but how you expressed it. Instead of saying, no I think the person’s opinion is wrong. You called them a troll and act extremely dismissive. That is not how to approach someone and try to convince them of Church teaching. That will only push a person further away. There were many ways you could have expressed an opinion that wasn’t as dismissive. That is what was uncharitable. This particular topic has been handled very poorly by many Christian circles (a lot still do not make the distinction between attractions and actions), so many are ignorant of the full church teaching (not to mention, also on other morality teachings in general).
Engaging with people who are clueless about Church teaching is a waste of time
Click to expand...
I don’t know how you back that statement up at all. If someone is clueless about Church teaching on a CATHOLIC FORUM no less. I’d wager this would be the perfect place to discuss and explain the Catholic position. If we don’t do that here then where does one discuss theology.

But this is distracting from the original topic of the forum.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top