How much Money should a Christian have?

[Cristian_B]

Thank you.
Yes it is satisfactory.
Though I was thinking of the more direct biblical answer. **Mt 22:36-40 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, " YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 **"The second is like it, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
(bolding and underline mine)Now if we truly do Love our neighbor as ourselves, we need to place ourselves in our neighbors position. If you were standing before a “better off” neighbor asking for help are you hoping your neighbor refuses you?

Let us look once again at the senerio I placed before you in my post number 50 but lets "rewrite it a bit with the above commandments in mind. "*If Jesus were to lay before you three brochures - on the left a brochure for a Lexus and on the right a brochure for a comparable Chevy that would cost 50/month less along with a brochure from a catholic ministry asking for 40/month from you, which do you think Jesus is hoping you will choose? Do you think He would want you to choose the Lexus in order to “maintain your status”?*Now which should you choose if you love your neighbor as yourself? Do you think that, “yourself”, who is asking for the funds for the catholic ministry is hoping you turn “yourself” down in favor of the more expensive car?

Peace
James

This thread is about how much money we must own, not how many [physical] goods.

 

[JRKH]

This thread is about how much money we must own, not how many [physical] goods.

Then perhaps another verse is more applicable
Mt 19:21
Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Mk 10:21
Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Luke 12:23
"Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.

Luke 18:22
When Jesus heard this, He said to him, “One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

This thread is about how we view and use the money that comes to us. This includes what we own, unless of course everything you have was given to you by someone else.

Peace
James

 

[o_mlly]

How much is too much. …
How much should wealth should any – individual Christian hold?

Peace
James

Give Father Haughey, S.J. a read:
Haughey, John C. The Holy Use of Money. New York: Crossland, 1986.

 

[nsper7]

I get that, but this doesn’t apply as roundly as you might want it to in order to defend luxury. Think about a person who owns 2 cars instead of 1 + public transit. Think of that same person who owns a $300 000 dollar home instead of something half that price (granted it could house all the people that need to live in it). Think about a person who ever buys a new TV. The luxuries you think are so slight in North America (or whatever developed nation) are things that you could sacrifice, and if you did, the benefit for someone else would far outstrip the marginal benefit you get from it. Imagine you walk into target and say “yeah, I need a new TV, nothing too fancy” and they say “sure - you can get this one right here, or you can feed a starving family for a year.” You know what the facts are, but you continue to take your marginal luxury. It’s the biggest lie in the Christian value system.

At what point does it become sinful, especially mortally sinful? Is buy in a new TV mortally sinful? Does not sacrificing things one could sacrifice count as a mortal sin?

 

[nsper7]

Such a “dodge” might work with the I.R.S., but not with the G.O.D.

The issue of “wealth” has to do with what is in your heart and not your pocket book.

“Think About It” brings up good points about our purchases and what we, in the US, consider “necesities”.
Televeision is a prime example. We think of TV as a necessity, go out and buy a nice one, and then complain about what’s on the darn thing.
(of course if all you watch is EWTN that’s a different matter)

Now I’m not saying what is or is not a legitiamte purchase in any particular case. Nor do I know what might be “too much” in a particular situation. The subject is way too complicated and each situation is unique. That has never been the point of this thread.

Though I must say I am fairly dissapointed with my fellow Christians in their views. Most seem more than ready and willing to defend having wealth, even a lot of wealth as “not sinful”.

“Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.”
How often do we (myself included) fail in this?

"Love your neighbor as yourself’
Would “yourself” wish to be turned down when “yourself” asks you for help?

How many more verses are there in the NT telling us not to desire or hold onto wealth?

Peace
James

Obviously, I was being a bit facetious. Still, we get down to the question of: at what point does it become a (mortal) sin? Remember that the Catholic Church divides Jesus’ words to the rich young man between the precepts (Keep the commandments) and the counsels (Sell all you have and give to the poor).

Technically, a ‘life estate’ would fulfill the issue because it is no longer yours. You have the use of it under contractual provisions, but it is not yours anymore.

 

[JRKH]

At what point does it become sinful, especially mortally sinful? Is buy in a new TV mortally sinful? Does not sacrificing things one could sacrifice count as a mortal sin?

Search thy heart.

What use would do most to demonstrate how you put God, and the advancement of His Kingdom, first in your life.

“Seek first the Kingdom of God…”

Mt 6 -
31 "Do not worry then, saying, What will we eat?' or What will we drink?’ or `What will we wear for clothing?’ 32 "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Peace
James

 

[Doc_Keele]

Some philosopher in the UK (not religious as far as I know) said he would give half his income to charity. Some moral philosophers argue that everyone should give to maximise utility, quite a tall order.

 

[Rascalking]

Did you ever realize that when there is a disaster in the world, Tsunami, earthquake, etc, the poor countries ask for help, and get it-from the rich ones?

Money is very important-it allows us to help people who need it.

It’s not brain surgery here…

 

[AHapka]

"If Jesus were to lay before you three brochures - on the left a brochure for a Lexus and on the right a brochure for a comparable Chevy that would cost 50/month less along with a brochure from a catholic ministry asking for 40/month from you, which do you think Jesus is hoping you will choose? Do you think He would want you to choose the Lexus in order to “maintain your status”?
Now which should you choose if you love your neighbor as yourself? Do you think that, “yourself”, who is asking for the funds for the catholic ministry is hoping you turn “yourself” down in favor of the more expensive car?

Peace
James

I’d go find an older, cheaper used Audi like I have now…lol…

But given your condition, I’d buy the Chevy. But I’m kind of biased since I like my Chevy Impala better then a Lexus (and have driven both).

 

[AHapka]

Thanks For instance I see big fancy cars, SUV’s etc at Church. I immediately think (though I should not) about how “selfish” such vehicle is.

James

Don’t forget that just because the car is fancy doesn’t mean it was expensive to the person who brought it. I purchased my Audi A8 with 62,000 miles for $20,000 when I hear of people purchasing frugal looking Toyata Camry’s for $30,000. Mine fits 3 car seats in the back, which is really nice since I have four (living) children.

But because the car was sooo well maintained and the paint still shines like new, people think I have a ton of money, which they would never think about someone who spends more then I did on a Toyota or Honda.

 

[AHapka]

According to the Church, the Evangelical Counsels (i.e. Jesus’ words to the rich young man to sell all he has, etc.) are NOT required for Salvation.

In my opinion, Jesus said that to the rich man because he said he did everything that the commandments stated. In other words, he thought he had done his requirements and didn’t need to do anything more.

I think He always calls us to a higher standard when we reach each level. A very rich, but very sinfull person would probably be called (I would guess myself) to stop sinning, and then later on give wealth. Some people can only progress to holiness in small steps.

 

[nsper7]

In my opinion, Jesus said that to the rich man because he said he did everything that the commandments stated. In other words, he thought he had done his requirements and didn’t need to do anything more.

This is not what the Church teaches. The rich young man, if he was keeping the commandments as he said he was, had done what is required for Salvation. If you are keeping the commandments, you are NOT in a state of mortal sin.

 

[AHapka]

This is not what the Church teaches. The rich young man, if he was keeping the commandments as he said he was, had done what is required for Salvation. If you are keeping the commandments, you are NOT in a state of mortal sin.

True, good point. Do you think that there was a pride issue here? The fact that he went away sad is interesting. Don’t know, but I’d like to hear opinions.

 

[alitaptap]

This thread is about how we view and use the money that comes to us. This includes what we own, unless of course everything you have was given to you by someone else.

The thread should also view that God is ready to give us abundance but it’s us who limit ourselves to receive just a part of what He is preparing to give us because we don’t know how much money should a Christian have. We are afraid.

 

[PatriceA]

A Christian should have enough money to cover any debts they have and provide enough for the needs of their dependents.

 

[mary1173]

I understand the attachment issue…and love of money, but it is the balance that I question. What is the right balance?

Some people are very scrupulous about spending any money on anything “frivolous.” Others try to kid themselves that they have no attachment, as they get into their private jet for a couple months in their winter home in the Bahamas. No one is going to ask them (this includes Bill Gates and Warren Buffet) to give everything away, as Jesus asked the rich man in the gospels, so they never will have their attachment challenged directly. Do these wealthy people have the right balance? I certainly have no idea.

I am more concerned about my own balance…not that of Warren Buffet or Bill Gates.

A 10% of your total income is considered a tithe of your money to charitable giving of your church.
God Bless.

 

[alitaptap]

A 10% of your total income is considered a tithe of your money to charitable giving of your church.
God Bless.

One quick question. Is it bad if I want to earn so much (say million) so I can give 40% or more of my income to charity and nonprofit work that other people do?

 

[sinnerdexter]

How much should wealth should any – individual Christian hold?

The question should be:

How much Gratitude should a Christian have? Money without gratitude isn’t wealth. It’s poverty.

Gratitude is like a magnet. When I’m grateful for the love in my life, I attract more of it. My relationships get deeper. My friendships become stronger. When I’m grateful for money, I attract more money. The right people come into my life. Doors open before me. Opportunities fall at my feet.

 

[JRKH]

Don’t forget that just because the car is fancy doesn’t mean it was expensive to the person who brought it. I purchased my Audi A8 with 62,000 miles for $20,000 when I hear of people purchasing frugal looking Toyata Camry’s for $30,000. Mine fits 3 car seats in the back, which is really nice since I have four (living) children.

But because the car was sooo well maintained and the paint still shines like new, people think I have a ton of money, which they would never think about someone who spends more then I did on a Toyota or Honda.

Yes. I recognize that any such “judgement” on my part is wrong and I have tried very hard not to be judgemental on this thread. Just trying to help myself think it through and maybe get others to think too.

I remember reading stories about how new parishes of hundred or a hundred fify hears ago, in poor and working class neighborhoods would commit to building, not just a church, but a school and making sure thier kids went to catholic school etc.
It just seems that we could/should do more to help our parishes and our kids.

But I dunno -

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

In my opinion, Jesus said that to the rich man because he said he did everything that the commandments stated. In other words, he thought he had done his requirements and didn’t need to do anything more.

I disagree with this only to the point where you say that the rich young man, “thought he had done his requirements and didn’t need to do anything more”. If the Rich young man had thought this, he would not have asked Jesus,
"The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?”(Mt 19:20
The young man obviously had an intuitive sense from Jesus teachings that there was something more to it than simply “Keeping the Law”

I think He always calls us to a higher standard when we reach each level. A very rich, but very sinfull person would probably be called (I would guess myself) to stop sinning, and then later on give wealth. Some people can only progress to holiness in small steps.

I also believe this. We have never arrived in our journey toward God until we reach the beatific vision.
After all what are we called to be? - “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect”. (Mt 5:48)
These are Jesus own words to us.
“Impossible” is the response and we walk away - sad, like the rich young man, - or angry like the crowds in John 6 who couldn’t accept the teaching on the Eucharist and declared “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” (John 6:60).

Well Impossible it may be and yet this is the challange, the belief we are called to accept, just as we are called to acccept the teachings in John 6.
Yet God gives us hope for He says, "26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Mt 19:26)

Peace
James