How much Money should a Christian have?

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This is more specific question. Are you willing to give 90% of your wealth and live on the remaining 10%?
Well, so long as the 10% is sufficient for me to live on, so that as St Paul says I am never a burden on others, and sufficient to similarly provide for my children and spouse or anyone else who is financially dependent on me so that they also don’t unnecessarily become a burden on others.
 
Well, so long as the 10% is sufficient for me to live on, so that as St Paul says I am never a burden on others, and sufficient to similarly provide for my children and spouse or anyone else who is financially dependent on me so that they also don’t unnecessarily become a burden on others.
Excellent answer though it will be difficult once wealth is in your hands already. One thing is for sure, God will bless the giver more than he/she can imagine.
 
I did not read the thread except for a few great replies, so hopefully what I have to add is actually an addition to the thread. 😃

A priest on EWTN had a great explaination for the camel and the eye of the needle. In bibilical times, towns were surrounded by walls for safety and civility. These walls would have large doors for when dignitaries and armies and other large processions enter the town. For everything else, there is the “eye of the needle”. These are smaller doors that just fits a full grown man. Well a camel can get through if first, you unload the camel. The ones that cannot get through are those that stubborning grip their bags and getting stuck in the door way.

So imagine there is a row of people going single file into the city’s “eye of the needle.” Some of them are very poor and can slide through easily. Others are richer but hand off what they carry to their companions who are inside first then go through. Some have loaded camels and so they unload and then proceed in the same way. The camel just walks in unburdened, while ducking his head. (They have long necks after all.) But now there is a rich man who is stingy and does not trust anyone. He does not have any friends either to help him carry his things through the gateway. So no matter how much he tries, he will not get through unless he realizes he has to put down some of his processions. Ironically these processions of his are actually processing him.
 
I am wary of threads such as this. When the question is truly honest in asking “how much do I need”, how does the Church teachings direct ME, what can I learn to apply to MY life – then it is a fair question.

However, it is often about other people. Trying to deduce if they have too much. Sometimes it is just wealth envy. Sometimes it is political or even in support of socialism. Be cautious, suspicious and introspective.
Well to set your mind at ease, my question, as I have stated severl times, has as much to do with discerning things foe myself as anything. It stems from a number of different threads of thought on my part. I have no political agenda, and really no other desire than that others should consider this question carefully in their own lives. The only “social” agenda I might have is that our parishes have the support, both financial and physical (volunteering) that they need to fulfill their mission.

Am I envious of others’ wealth? Perhaps years ago this would be true. But honestly now I fear it. Not for others, but for me. I know now why God did not let me “win the Lottery” when I begged him to. I am afraid that I am too weak to be entrusted with large sums of money.

Anyway - I hope this helps you to not be concerned about my purpose in proposing this question. I frankly felt it was an important one to ask. The answers have also been most illuminating though, I’m afraid, not very comforting.

Peace
James
 
Well, so long as the 10% is sufficient for me to live on, so that as St Paul says I am never a burden on others, and sufficient to similarly provide for my children and spouse or anyone else who is financially dependent on me so that they also don’t unnecessarily become a burden on others.
Very good answer except that the next question becomes - what is “sufficient”?
That will undoubtedly vary from culture to culture and from person to person.

Peace
James
 
Why be rich anyway?
Why not?

If you have a knack for making money or starting a business, why not?

As long as you don’t make it your ‘god’ the Church does not condemn it. And does not demand percentages, nor demand that you ‘fear’ wealth for yourself, or for others.

We are to enjoy the things of this world in proper degree and perspective. If God gives you a talent, you are to use it.
 
Why not?

If you have a knack for making money or starting a business, why not?
To me - This is something entirely different than “being rich”. These abilities you mention can indeed be blessings and gifts from God.
Starting a business (or businesses) can provide many benefits to many people.
The ability to spot good investments (profitable and christian) can likewise provide benefits to many.
As long as you don’t make it your ‘god’ the Church does not condemn it. And does not demand percentages, nor demand that you ‘fear’ wealth for yourself, or for others.
And so - How do you know when you have “made it your god” or not? What yard stick do you use to make the determination that you are serving “wrong master”?
When you have enough money to buy a 30 foot speedboat that you always wanted or give this money to some charitable cause, it seems that the decision says something about whether we are serving our will or God’s Will.
We are to enjoy the things of this world in proper degree and perspective. If God gives you a talent, you are to use it.
And so the idea as a christian is to determine just what that proper degree and perspective is. Is the perspective of the world, or the perspective of God.
I agree, if God gives you a talent, you are to use it. For the Glory of Him who gave you that talent.

Peace
James
 
Why not?

If you have a knack for making money or starting a business, why not?

As long as you don’t make it your ‘god’ the Church does not condemn it. And does not demand percentages, nor demand that you ‘fear’ wealth for yourself, or for others.

We are to enjoy the things of this world in proper degree and perspective. If God gives you a talent, you are to use it.
Are you a giver? I mean do you want to earn so much that you can give a certain % of your wealth?
 
Why be rich anyway?
This question is crucial. I think there are only 2 reasons why people want to be rich:
  1. because of greed/materialism
  2. because of love
Materialism promises heaven but delivers hell. Only love can answer the deepest longings of our soul. Choosing option 1 or 2 is a personal decision.
 
Can I just add, that one in six, yes 1/6 people dont get enough to eat in this world on a daily basis and go hungry. As it stands with all our Charitable giving we are reaching about 80% of those people (source: WFP) so for a start not everyone is being fed… and further more in 2008 food prices increased so we are now looking at feeding an extra 120 million people as a result.

Furthermore, the bible says that we shall be happy if we have food and clothing. Are you not content? Im sure your Postcode alone places you in the top 25% richest people in the world if you live in the Europe/ America…
 
And so - How do you know when you have “made it your god” or not? What yard stick do you use to make the determination that you are serving “wrong master”?
When you have enough money to buy a 30 foot speedboat that you always wanted or give this money to some charitable cause, it seems that the decision says something about whether we are serving our will or God’s Will.
But that could be true with anything deemed extraneous (TV, computer, cell phone, etc.) so at what point does enjoyment of one’s wealth become a sin? Remember, only religious (i.e. brothers, sisters, religious priests) take vows of poverty. No one else is REQUIRED under pain of sin I believe to be poor.

The question is how much must one give in order to avoid mortal sin? And since theologians are not sure, it makes it hard to fully determine. I mean, if one is a multi-millionaire and gives 10% to their parish and another 10% to various charities, would that meet the requirements? It would seem like it would be only the person’s regular Confessor/Spiritual Director (assuming said C/SD was orthodox in their faith) who could give an authoritative answer to that question for said individual. You really can’t go wrong just adhering to what your C/SD says.
The NT, we’re called to give from our joyful hearts.
But if someone is only giving out of fear of Hell, is that really from a joyful heart?
 
Can I just add, that one in six, yes 1/6 people dont get enough to eat in this world on a daily basis and go hungry. As it stands with all our Charitable giving we are reaching about 80% of those people (source: WFP) so for a start not everyone is being fed… and further more in 2008 food prices increased so we are now looking at feeding an extra 120 million people as a result.

**Furthermore, the bible says that we shall be happy if we have food and clothing. Are you not content? **Im sure your Postcode alone places you in the top 25% richest people in the world if you live in the Europe/ America…
👍👍

Peace
James
 
And so - How do you know when you have “made it your god” or not? What yard stick do you use to make the determination that you are serving “wrong master”?
When you have enough money to buy a 30 foot speedboat that you always wanted or give this money to some charitable cause, it seems that the decision says something about whether we are serving our will or God’s Will.
Are you sure about that? Ar you sure that it is only the “religious” who are “required” to be “poor”? Oh - I don’t mean literally, for we are not all called to be “itinerant preachers”, but spiritually and with a heart that says, any wealth I have is for God and for the Glory of His Kingdom.
I believe that we are all much more like the “rich young man” than we want to admit. We all recognize the call to, “sell all we have, give to the poor, and then go follow Jesus”, but we hedge. We look at what we have financially and then we decide how to spend it and when it comes to “Charity”, when it comes to God, we ask, What is “Required”.
The question is how much must one give in order to avoid mortal sin?
I must confess my disappointment at this statement. can it be that you are not concerned with committing sin, so long as you can avoid “mortal sin”? Is your love for God so limited that you feel it acceptable to offend him, just so long as he doesn’t “kick you out” into the darkness?
We are called to Love God with our entire being, with all of our hearts, with our entire strength. Christ was beaten, humilated, crowned with thorns, mocked, stripped, and crucified for us and for our sins. How can one ask such a question as you have, and look Christ in the eye as He hangs on the Cross?
God gave His only Son, Christ Gave the last Drop of His blood, and you ask, “What must one give in order to avoid mortal sin”.
I think the question should be how much of your income is God’s Love worth? How much of your “treasure”, of your comfort, are you willing to let go of, in order to alleviate the sufferings of Christ who is hungry, thirsty, mocked, naked, in prison, and hated by the world even today.
Think of the person, or persons who mean the most to you. Those whom you love dearly; your wife, your children. Would you die for them? Do you ask what must I give them or do you rather ask what can I give them? Do you look at them and think how much they are requiring of you, or do you look at them and say how much of myself can I give them?
This is where perspecitve comes in. What is your pespective on God. A Love for whom you would give the last measure of devotion and earthy treasure, or a “Lord” whom you fear and give only what is “required”.

I’m sorry that the above is blunt and I don’t intend this to be an indictment of you personally, for I have been (and still am) just as guilty of this. Why else would Christ be suffering so today except for our lukewarm faith.
And since theologians are not sure, it makes it hard to fully determine. I mean, if one is a multi-millionaire and gives 10% to their parish and another 10% to various charities, would that meet the requirements?
Much could depend on how that remaining 80% is used. If the person lives modestly and invests that money in ways that provides honest, uplifting, work for others then it can be seen that such a person is seeking the Kingdom through the Love and welfare of his fellow man. If that person lives lavishly and conspicuously, spending freely on the things of luxury without regard to where or how they are made, then such a one is not seeking the Kingdom, and instead is seeking after selfish things of this world while his brother suffers.

A better question in my mind should be, whether a person with a lrge income needs more to live on than a person with a modest income?
This person, has the same number in his family regardless of income, so food requirements don’t change. The size of house needed doesn’t change. The number of cars needed doesn’t change. The desire to provide for college, life insurance and other things doesn’t change.
Thus - A household of a given size has certain needs, and even adding in certain other things that are “good things” to provide for the future of the children etc, such a household only “requires” a certain amount of money to live on, regardless of how much “income” there is.
So -
Ask youself again if the “multimillionaire”, avoids sin by giving 20% and keeping 80%.
It would seem like it would be only the person’s regular Confessor/Spiritual Director (assuming said C/SD was orthodox in their faith) who could give an authoritative answer to that question for said individual. You really can’t go wrong just adhering to what your C/SD says.
You are right. No one can say what is in someones heart. I certainly cannot.
The NT, we’re called to give from our joyful hearts.
But if someone is only giving out of fear of Hell, is that really from a joyful heart?

A person who is giving out of “fear of hell” has bigger issues than just what they give.
Fear of the Lord is said to be the beginning of Wisdom. – But only the Beginning…
The growth of Wisdom in our Lord replaces fear with Love.
When The Lord becomes our Love then we give with Joy to our beloved, who is our Lord.

Peace
James
 
The NT, we’re called to give from our joyful hearts.
The question was personal. This is a philosophical discussion.

And there seems to be an awful lot of assumption taking place here and there.
 
Are you sure about that? Ar you sure that it is only the “religious” who are “required” to be “poor”? Oh - I don’t mean literally, for we are not all called to be “itinerant preachers”, but spiritually and with a heart that says, any wealth I have is for God and for the Glory of His Kingdom.
I believe that we are all much more like the “rich young man” than we want to admit. We all recognize the call to, “sell all we have, give to the poor, and then go follow Jesus”, but we hedge. We look at what we have financially and then we decide how to spend it and when it comes to “Charity”, when it comes to God, we ask, What is “Required”.
But, one can hedge all one wants on non-sins. According to Church teaching, obedience to the evangelical counsels is NOT required for Salvation.
I must confess my disappointment at this statement. can it be that you are not concerned with committing sin, so long as you can avoid “mortal sin”? Is your love for God so limited that you feel it acceptable to offend him, just so long as he doesn’t “kick you out” into the darkness?
We are called to Love God with our entire being, with all of our hearts, with our entire strength. Christ was beaten, humilated, crowned with thorns, mocked, stripped, and crucified for us and for our sins. How can one ask such a question as you have, and look Christ in the eye as He hangs on the Cross?
God gave His only Son, Christ Gave the last Drop of His blood, and you ask, “What must one give in order to avoid mortal sin”.
I think the question should be how much of your income is God’s Love worth? How much of your “treasure”, of your comfort, are you willing to let go of, in order to alleviate the sufferings of Christ who is hungry, thirsty, mocked, naked, in prison, and hated by the world even today.
Think of the person, or persons who mean the most to you. Those whom you love dearly; your wife, your children. Would you die for them? Do you ask what must I give them or do you rather ask what can I give them? Do you look at them and think how much they are requiring of you, or do you look at them and say how much of myself can I give them?
This is where perspecitve comes in. What is your pespective on God. A Love for whom you would give the last measure of devotion and earthy treasure, or a “Lord” whom you fear and give only what is “required”.
I’m sorry that the above is blunt and I don’t intend this to be an indictment of you personally, for I have been (and still am) just as guilty of this. Why else would Christ be suffering so today except for our lukewarm faith.
Your bluntness does not bother me. As you can see, I am quite blunt as well. 🙂

But what does it mean to “love God”? We are required to obey the precepts of the Church for Salvation, but we are not required to obey the evangelical counsels. If “loving God” means just obeying His rules, then my question is a legitimate and valid one. Or we could ask: at what point does failure to love God become a mortal sin? We are thus entering into a major philosophical discussion: the nature of love and its degrees.

Much could depend on how that remaining 80% is used. If the person lives modestly and invests that money in ways that provides honest, uplifting, work for others then it can be seen that such a person is seeking the Kingdom through the Love and welfare of his fellow man. If that person lives lavishly and conspicuously, spending freely on the things of luxury without regard to where or how they are made, then such a one is not seeking the Kingdom, and instead is seeking after selfish things of this world while his brother suffers.
A better question in my mind should be, whether a person with a lrge income needs more to live on than a person with a modest income?
This person, has the same number in his family regardless of income, so food requirements don’t change. The size of house needed doesn’t change. The number of cars needed doesn’t change. The desire to provide for college, life insurance and other things doesn’t change.
Thus - A household of a given size has certain needs, and even adding in certain other things that are “good things” to provide for the future of the children etc, such a household only “requires” a certain amount of money to live on, regardless of how much “income” there is.
So -
Ask youself again if the “multimillionaire”, avoids sin by giving 20% and keeping 80%.
But does one have to give all of what is not “required”? I can find no Church document that authoritatively demands this. I am not denying that we are required to give a portion of our excess to the Church and others, but what is the requirement on pain of sin and mortal sin? Since mortal sin requires full knowledge, it seems like a touchy issue because it seems neither one of us, even in searching, can come up with authoritative knowledge on the issue.

Now, one can point to the words of Christ in Scripture, but at some point, one has to honestly ask: who cares? Neither one of us can authoritatively interpret Scripture and the Church is the arbiter of sin and mortal sin.
 
But, one can hedge all one wants on non-sins. According to Church teaching, obedience to the evangelical counsels is NOT required for Salvation.

Your bluntness does not bother me. As you can see, I am quite blunt as well. 🙂

But what does it mean to “love God”? We are required to obey the precepts of the Church for Salvation, but we are not required to obey the evangelical counsels. If “loving God” means just obeying His rules, then my question is a legitimate and valid one. Or we could ask: at what point does failure to love God become a mortal sin? We are thus entering into a major philosophical discussion: the nature of love and its degrees.

But does one have to give all of what is not “required”? I can find no Church document that authoritatively demands this. I am not denying that we are required to give a portion of our excess to the Church and others, but what is the requirement on pain of sin and mortal sin? Since mortal sin requires full knowledge, it seems like a touchy issue because it seems neither one of us, even in searching, can come up with authoritative knowledge on the issue.

Now, one can point to the words of Christ in Scripture, but at some point, one has to honestly ask: who cares? Neither one of us can authoritatively interpret Scripture and the Church is the arbiter of sin and mortal sin.
You have expressed yourself, and the requirements of, “The Law”, as defined by The Church, quite well.
Christ Himself does tell us to listen to and obey The Church (Mt 18:15-18) and those set in authority over us (Matthew 23:2-3).

I guess I just have trouble with the idea of just doing what is “required” as a minimum while others starve, while our parishes struggle to meet payroll and upkeep, while our brothers and sisters in Christ struggle to come up with tuition so they can send their children to Catholic Schools etc. Maybe it is just me and my outlook, and maybe others aren’t sinning by doing the minimum but I’d hate to stand before God and have to answer for it.

Peace
James
 
You have expressed yourself, and the requirements of, “The Law”, as defined by The Church, quite well.
Christ Himself does tell us to listen to and obey The Church (Mt 18:15-18) and those set in authority over us (Matthew 23:2-3).

I guess I just have trouble with the idea of just doing what is “required” as a minimum while others starve, while our parishes struggle to meet payroll and upkeep, while our brothers and sisters in Christ struggle to come up with tuition so they can send their children to Catholic Schools etc. Maybe it is just me and my outlook, and maybe others aren’t sinning by doing the minimum but I’d hate to stand before God and have to answer for it.

Peace
James
What Church documents address the issues of what we are required to do in terms of responsibility? For example, are we responsible for issues outside our immediate “sphere of influence” for lack of a better term.

If you haven’t sinned, then you have nothing to “answer for”.
 
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