How Muslims follow Jesus (pbuh)

[hamba2han]

Fasting

According to the Gospels, Jesus fasted for forty days. Matthew 4:2: “And he fasted forty days and forty nights, and afterward he was hungry.” This was in accordance with the practice of the earlier prophets. Moses is also recorded in Exodus 34:28, to have fasted: **“And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.” **

        In the Qur’aan, Chapter al-Baqarah (2):183, the believers are instructed to observe regular fasting.

} يَأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الصِّيَامُ كَمَا كُتِبَ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ {

“O you who believe, fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, in order that you may become pious.”

The purpose of fasting is clearly defined as being for the development of God-consciousness. Only God knows who is actually fasting and who is not. Consequently, one who is fasting refrains from eating and drinking based on an awareness of God. Regular fasting heightens that awareness, which subsequently leads to a greater inclination towards righteousness.

The believers are required to fast from dawn until dusk for the whole month of Ramadaan (the ninth month of the lunar calendar). Prophet Muhammad (e) also said, “The best fast [outside of Ramadaan] is that of my brother [Prophet] David who used to fast every other day.”

And so, Muslims follow Prophet Jesus (pbuh) in our manner of fasting.

Interest

By upholding the Law, Prophet Jesus also opposed the giving or taking of interest because the texts of the Torah expressly forbade interest. It is recorded in Deuteronomy 23:19 that, “You shall not lend upon interest to your brother, interest on money, interest upon victuals, interest on anything that is lent for interest.”

Interest is also strictly forbidden in Chapter al-Baqarah (2):278 of the Qur’aan:

}يَأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ اتَّقُواْ اللهَ وَذَرُواْ مَا بَقِيَ مِنَ الرِّبَآ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ مُؤْمِنِينَ{

“O you who believe, fear Allaah and give up what interest remains due to you, if you really are believers.”

In order to fulfill this divine requirement, Muslims developed an alternative system of banking, commonly known as ‘Islamic Banking’, which is interest-free.

And so, Muslims follow Jesus (pbuh) by staying away from interest.

 

[kellie]

The way Jesus (pbuh) made ablution would certainly have been the same as done by Moses and Aaron (pbut) and which is mentioned in the Book of Exodus, chapter number 40 and verses number 31 to 32: 31 - And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat. 32 - When they went into the tent of the congregation, and when they came near unto the altar, they washed; as the LORD commanded Moses.

What this means is that merely sprinkling with “holy water” the way that Christians like yourself are doing it surely does not equate with the proper method of ablution done by Jesus, Moses and Aaron (pbut).

As for Passover which commemorates the Exodus and freedom of the Israelites from ancient Egypt, many Muslims do indeed remember this event by observing a day of fasting just like how we believe Prophet Moses (pbuh) fasted on that day to express gratitude to God for liberating the Israelites from Egypt.

This day, which in the Islamic calendar falls on the 10th of Muharram every year, is known as the Day of Ashura.

And so, even though it is not a religious obligation to do so, many Muslims do indeed follow Prophets Jesus and Moses (pbut) in remembering the Exodus by fasting on this Day of Ashura and often, also fasting on the two days immediately before and after this day.

So you want us to follow the actions of Jesus EXACTLY in the way of how he performed ablution before prayer, but you won’t follow Jesus EXACTLY in the way He observed Passover.

Why? What is the difference? Both are an act of thanking Almighty God are they not?

 

[kellie]

The way Jesus (pbuh) made ablution would certainly have been the same as done by Moses and Aaron (pbut) and which is mentioned in the Book of Exodus, chapter number 40 and verses number 31 to 32: 31 - And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat. 32 - When they went into the tent of the congregation, and when they came near unto the altar, they washed; as the LORD commanded Moses.

What this means is that merely sprinkling with “holy water” the way that Christians like yourself are doing it surely does not equate with the proper method of ablution done by Jesus, Moses and Aaron (pbut).

As for Passover which commemorates the Exodus and freedom of the Israelites from ancient Egypt, many Muslims do indeed remember this event by observing a day of fasting just like how we believe Prophet Moses (pbuh) fasted on that day to express gratitude to God for liberating the Israelites from Egypt.

This day, which in the Islamic calendar falls on the 10th of Muharram every year, is known as the Day of Ashura.

And so, even though it is not a religious obligation to do so, many Muslims do indeed follow Prophets Jesus and Moses (pbut) in remembering the Exodus by fasting on this Day of Ashura and often, also fasting on the two days immediately before and after this day.

And even though you are telling me that you follow Jesus to the letter when it comes to ablution before prayer, you then say that Passover, which was an act of thanks to God performed by Jesus, is NOT a religious obligation for the Muslims.

So what makes you think washing the whole arm before prayer is a religious obligation, instead of using holy water to make the sign of the cross like we do?

 

[Verisimilitude]

As previoulsy posted.



hamba2ham has no integrity in theology much less historical fact, thinking faith trumps Truth in both cases.

 

[dolphinlove]

Muslims believe that Jesus (pbuh) did not die and he was indeed raised up alive to Heaven to be with his Creator and he will return one day.

This will be explained in a later post, God-willing.

Ill say this to you…
HE DIED ON THE CROSS FOR OUR SINS…
ANYTHING you say will fall on death ears about our savior ‘not’ dying.
Honestly Ham, save your energy trying to convince us otherwise.
We believe what is written in the NT, NOTHING else!

 

[hamba2han]

And even though you are telling me that you follow Jesus to the letter when it comes to ablution before prayer, you then say that Passover, which was an act of thanks to God performed by Jesus, is NOT a religious obligation for the Muslims.

So what makes you think washing the whole arm before prayer is a religious obligation, instead of using holy water to make the sign of the cross like we do?

Ablution before prayer was commanded to Moses and Aaron (pbut) as recorded in Exodus 40:30-31.

As for Passover, I do not think it was commanded by God to be celebrated, although giving thanks to God on that day may indeed be recommended… as on any other day for that matter.

 

[Sixtus]

Christians are not circumcised, because of a rationale introduced by Paul. He claimed that circumcision was the circumcision of the heart.

I think it is important to see where St Paul was coming from. He was not trying to convert Christians first to Jewdaism.

I think it is also important to see circumcision in the light of culture and topographical location: in the Middle East where it is practiced the most, it is a fact that uncleaness in personal hygene can lead to the spread of terrible infections which put at risk both the male and his spouse.

The further one travels away from the intense heat, the less likely there is of such high risk. Also, water was not so readily available for ablutions that it is today.

I think male circumision need be seen in that light.

More worrying is female circumision which is practiced in a lot of Middle East countries. That is purely barbaric cruelty and mutilation. I would like to see Muslims working to stamp out this henious of evils and bring its perpetrators to justice.

 

[Eireann]

Muslims believe that Jesus (pbuh) did not die and he was indeed raised up alive to Heaven to be with his Creator and he will return one day.

This will be explained in a later post, God-willing.

Such is the deception of Islam, even after all the witnesses and guards being placed at the tomb.

Even his killers knew He was dead, which is why they didn’t break His bones, this off-course was to fulfill scripture.

So a summary, here we have believers who say He died, and His killers knew He died, but Muslims who saw the great light 600 years later know He didn’t die. LOL

I think I’ll take the word of those that were there instead of a self proclaimed prophet who was duped by the devil in disguise.

 

[Hellisreal]

Such is the deception of Islam, even after all the witnesses and guards being placed at the tomb.

Even his killers knew He was dead, which is why they didn’t break His bones, this off-course was to fulfill scripture.

So a summary, here we have believers who say He died, and His killers knew He died, but Muslims who saw the great light 600 years later know He didn’t die. LOL

I think I’ll take the word of those that were there instead of a self proclaimed prophet who was duped by the devil in disguise.

False Prophets give false information.

Let us pray for Ham.

 

[hamba2han]

I think it is important to see where St Paul was coming from. He was not trying to convert Christians first to Judaism.

I think it is also important to see circumcision in the light of culture and topographical location: in the Middle East where it is practiced the most, it is a fact that uncleanliness in personal hygiene can lead to the spread of terrible infections which put at risk both the male and his spouse.

The further one travels away from the intense heat, the less likely there is of such high risk. Also, water was not so readily available for ablutions that it is today.

I think male circumcision need be seen in that light.

More worrying is female circumcision which is practiced in a lot of Middle East countries. That is purely barbaric cruelty and mutilation. I would like to see Muslims working to stamp out this heinous acts of evils and bring its perpetrators to justice.

There are numerous medical benefits that I could cite to support the practice of male circumcision… but there are also to be found medical opinion which says that these benefits are not that significant.

And so, I would say that the real reason why Christians should have their male children circumcised is because it was commanded of Abraham (pbuh) and all the other Prophets (pbut) who came after him and more significantly from a Christian perspective, Jesus (pbuh) too was circumcised and so I do not believe that male circumcision is a trivial matter at all in the eyes of God.

As for female circumcision, whatever it’s origin, it did not originate in the Islamic tradition, contrary to popular belief. Both Muslims and Christians have circumcised their daughters since early times, and there is considerable evidence that the practice existed long before Christianity and Islam. There is no question that female circumcision preceded Islam in Africa.

Female circumcision is not prevalent at all in Saudi Arabia which of course is the cradle of Islam and neither is it practiced in Algeria, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia.but it does exists in certain other countries in the region and elsewhere in the world and so it is really more of a cultural thing.

If you wish to read more on this practice of female circumcision, kindly go here.

 

[inJESUS]

So Ham, you told me the Bible does not agree with me that Jesus declared all food ok and that he saves, and not a piece of skin ecc. Please show me how.

And show me where in the NT did Jesus make ablution or teach it.Where did he teach outward rituals when he himself neglected these rituals in favour for spirituality?

And answer why you follow meaningless rituals like Pharisee and not Jesus’ words? are you baptized just as Jesus said?

why do you eat camel meat? that was not allowed under Moses’ Law so Muhammad lied to you.

Why can a divirced woman go back to her first husband after being married to another? God despised this in the OT so Muhammad lied to you.

Muhammad gave you rituals and you are what Jesus calls Pharisee spirited people who follow words but are dead to the Spirit,

Moreover, the Lord’s prayer that you wanted to cast doubt on was stolen by your prophet:

Abu al Darda’ is reported to have said that the prophet said, “When any one is in suffering, or his brother suffers, then let him pray this prayer: 'Our Lord God who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom is in heaven and on earth, and even as Thy mercy is in heaven, so may Thy mercy also be upon earth. Forgive us our debts and our sins, for Thou art the Lord of the good. Send down mercy from Thy mercy and healing from Thy healing for those suffering, that they may begin to heal.’”

Now if you don’t want to reply why you don’t follow what Jesus commanded yet insist we do what you “think” he commanded, then save your breath because you are a Pharisee to us and to Jesus.

 

[inJESUS]

“The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you.”

But Muhammad said camel is good food.

Jesus declared all food clean :“Do not call anything impure what God has made clean” (Acts 10:15).

Lord Jesus, by everything He did, made everything clean in His name

Jesus came to fulfill and He fulfilled the Law of Moses and initiated a NEW COVENANT where HIS words are to be followed, HIS life to be imitated, and not anybody else. Old covenant finished, New Covenant started : both are not the same. Islam, on the other hand, drags society back to the law of Moses, which for Christians has been fulfilled in Christ. Islam preaches religious legalism and external holiness—don’t eat this or that food! don’t wear this or that! wash like this not like that! Allah will punish you! From a Christian point of view, Muslims still follow legalism and external righteousness that comes from self-effort without the Holy Spirit’s work in the heart. Muhammad’s “Spirit” rejected Jesus’ salvation, and we all know which “spirit” wants humanity to reject the salvation of Lord Jesus.

 

[hamba2han]

So Hamba, you told me the Bible does not agree with me that Jesus declared all food ok and that he saves, and not a piece of skin ecc. Please show me how.

He never consumed pork and anything containing blood nor did he drink alcohol, see posts 2 and 4.

And show me where in the NT did Jesus make ablution or teach it.Where did he teach outward rituals when he himself neglected these rituals in favour for spirituality?

Prior to making formal prayer, Jesus used to wash his limbs according to the teachings of the Torah. Moses and Aaron are recorded as doing the same in Exodus 40:30-31, **“30 And he set the laver between the tent of meeting and the altar, and put water in it for washing, 31with which Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet… as the Lord commanded Moses.”
**
Did Jesus (pbuh) not follow the teachings of the Torah?

Matthew 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And answer why you follow meaningless rituals like Pharisee and not Jesus’ words? are you baptized just as Jesus said?

Do you consider making ablution, bowing and prostrating in prayer to be meaningless rituals??

Then why was it commanded to Moses and followed religiously by Jesus (pbut) as recorded in the Bible and as explained already in this thread?

why do you eat camel meat? that was not allowed under Moses’ Law

Eating camel meat and riding donkeys are not commanded by God but making ablution before prayer most certainly is as can be seen in Matthew 40:31-32 above.

Moreover, the Lord’s prayer that you wanted to cast doubt on was stolen by your prophet:

Abu al Darda’ is reported to have said that the prophet said, “When any one is in suffering, or his brother suffers, then let him pray this prayer: 'Our Lord God who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom is in heaven and on earth, and even as Thy mercy is in heaven, so may Thy mercy also be upon earth. Forgive us our debts and our sins, for Thou art the Lord of the good. Send down mercy from Thy mercy and healing from Thy healing for those suffering, that they may begin to heal.’”

I do not believe that this is a sahih or authenticated hadith and it is very likely to be a fabricated hadith if indeed it even exists.

 

[inJESUS]

He never consumed pork and anything containing blood nor did he drink alcohol, see posts 2 and 4.

Jesus was born a Jew. As a Jew, He followed and fulfilled the Law and taught it as HE saw fit by changing what is not God’s original plan and by showing how to live the Spirit of the Law and not outward rituals, exactly opposite to what you’re claiming he taught. Am i a Jew? no, am a Christian born under the NEW COVENANT. Do you understand what that means? if the New is like the old, it wouldn’t be called new, would it? under His Covenant, Jesus declared all food clean.Jesus declared all food halal:

“Are you so dull?” he asked, "Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him unclean? For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him ‘unclean.’ For from within, out of men’s hearts come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance, and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean’.”
Mark 7:18-23 There is no need repeating the same claim. Jesus started a New Covenant under which HE declared all food halal. Old - New.

The 10 commandmants is a MORAL Law that Jesus FOCUSED ON. The other Law is called CIVIL Law PERTAINING ONLY AND ONLY TO JEWS. The purpose of these laws was to set apart the Children of Israel from all other nations on the basis of outer holiness. They were to remain separate and distinct, and were to be distinguished in the eyes of the rest of the world for serving the one true God, and refusing to adopt the practices and superstitions of idolatrous worship that surrounded them.

Among these civil laws was the rule that forbade the eating of pig meat. It was a common practice among neighboring pagan tribes to offer a pig as a sacred sacrifice to their idols. Furthermore, in that time and in that part of the world, the pig was a very filthy animal that fed on dead meat and garbage. As a result, eating pork caused the spread of terrible diseases that affected the whole community.

The Children of Israel were to keep themselves completely separate from such pagan influence and filth because the Children of Israel were chosen to be a holy nation submitting itself to the one true God. Why were the Children of Israel so special, and for what purpose had God chosen them? They were the chosen community through which would come the Savior of the World, Jesus the Messiah. At Jesus’ time, religious leaders gave more importance to these rituals of washing and diet than to the real meaning of these prohibitions.As a result, true religion for many degenerated into dead rituals lined with arrogance and hypocrisy. On the outside, the religious leaders could be seen of men reciting their prayers, washing their hands, and eating only permitted foods. But on the inside, their hearts were diseased with hatred, greed, lust, and jealousy. Men had abused the law to boast of their own version of holiness, something like what you are doing right now.

Jesus had now come to unite** all cultures of the world unto God **and to empower people of all races to live up to the holiness of the great moral laws of God. It is obvious that as this community grows worldwide there are no civil laws that can be common to all, because of great differences in environment and climate. Nevertheless, the great moral teaching of Jesus remains the same for everyone: it is not the abstinence of food that brings great glory to the Almighty, but rather the expression of genuine love for God and fellowman. This law can apply to anyone and to anyplace in the world. Hence there is no Law for Jews and Laws for gentiles because under Jesus’ New covenant the Law is the moral one, not rituals that used to differentiate between people.Jesus united both pagans and Jews.

As to alcohol, i already quoted passages about Jesus drinking alcohol as well. Alcohol is not prohibited in the Mosaic Law…unless in some cases. Drunkness is prohibited. Moreover, it took your prophet 4 passages to prohibit it which means it was not prohibited before “Jibreel” told him so.

 

[inJESUS]

Prior to making formal prayer, Jesus used to wash his limbs according to the teachings of the Torah. Moses and Aaron are recorded as doing the same in Exodus 40:30-31, **“30 And he set the laver between the tent of meeting and the altar, and put water in it for washing, 31with which Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet… as the Lord commanded Moses.”
**
Did Jesus (pbuh) not follow the teachings of the Torah?

show me where did Jesus perform the Islamic ablution and where did he command gentile and Jews to do the same. Lord Jesus gave many commandmants so if this were so important, we’d have read it somewhere so where is it?

Matthew 5:17-20

Jesus did fulfill the Law. Fulfill = finish to start His New Covenant, it does NOT mean He came to teach everything taught by Moses and give the same commandmant, otherwise He wouldn’t have said " you heard BUT I TELL YOU ". ok? all the sacrificial system required in Leviticus was fulfilled by Jesus as an atonement for us hence He fulfilled the Law of salvation and atonement. Lord Jesus saves , not ablution nor some skin.

Do you consider making ablution, bowing and prostrating in prayer to be meaningless rituals??

yes because Jesus did not teach us the position of prayer but what to say, whether standing or kneeling or looking up the sky,it doesn’t matter what matters is how you pray… Jesus did not teach us how to clean the outside but the inside.Jesus washed the feet of His disciples to teach us that we are all equal and one, do you do the same in Islam as we do in Church? do you wash each others’ feet as Jesus did?

Eating camel meat

is prohibited according to the same Law you want us to follow so why are you allowed to eat what Moses prohibited?

I do not believe that this is a sahih or authenticated hadith and it is very likely to be a fabricated hadith if indeed it even exists.

ah you must check then who was the one who quoted it.

And finally, you tell me, are you as a Muslim required to live according to the Mosaic Law?

 

[hamba2han]

Speaking of donkeys and Mosaic Law as written in the Torah, the Qur’an has something to say about this:

The likeness of those who were entrusted with the (obligation of the) Taurat (Torah) (i.e. to obey its commandments and to practise its legal laws), but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is as the likeness of a donkey who carries huge burdens of books (but understands nothing from them). How bad is the example (or the likeness) of people who deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah. And Allah guides not the people who are Zalimoon (polytheists, wrong-doers, disbelievers, etc.)… Noble Qur’an, 62:05

 

[Eireann]

. And Allah guides not the people who are Zalimoon (polytheists, wrong-doers, disbelievers, etc.)… Noble Qur’an, 62:05

Exactly, your finally admitting you’ve been misled. along with the other billion Muslims.

I think you’ll be a Catholic one day.

 

[Verisimilitude]

hamba2han to CAF: Islam is a construction project with scaffolding, changing as required revealed by god Allah through Gabriel through Muhammed.

CAF to hamba2han: The Christian message never changed revealed by G-d Himself.

hamba2han to CAF: Islam never changes. Christians can’t trust the bible because 600 years later Muhammed said so, but the Qur’an has no errors.

CAF to hamba2han: You just contradicted yourself and points out numerous & obvious errors in Koran.

hamba2han to CAF: The Quran can’t be translated into another language properly so you can’t know the true meaning- accept my word on what your scripture means by accepting my scripture.

CAF to hamba2han: Why do you think yours is true and accurate?

hamba2han to CAF: An ant spoke to Solomon, water is wet, and a blood clot is science before it’s time. Look, continental drift and plate tectonics is written in the Koran.

CAF to hamba2han:

hamba2han to CAF: Let me tell you the secrets of the universe as revealed in the Koran.

CAF to hamba2han: What about answering the question?

hamba2han to CAF: Muslims follow Jesus better than Catholics because the Koran says so. We wash like Jesus washed, and pray like Jesus prayed.

CAF to hamba2han: What about answering the question?

hamba2han to CAF: Jesus never drank wine.

CAF to hamba2han: What about answering the question?

hamba2han to CAF: Speaking of donkeys and Mosaic Law as written in the Torah.

CAF to hamba2han: Why don’t you answer questions put to you?

hamba2han to CAF: As for female circumcision…

 

[hamba2han]

This is perhaps off-topic but for anyone who is still not clear as to how Muslims view earlier Prophets like Jesus (pbuh), then maybe it would be much better if the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself explain it to you.

Abu Huraira reports that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

**“My position, in relation to the prophets who came before me, can be explained in the following example: ‘A man erected a building and adorned his edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche in the corner, where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche! I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in line of the prophets.’” **(Reported by Bukhari and Muslim.)

Since this is, like I mentioned, not really the topic of this thread, I will not elaborate further as I believe that this explanation of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is sufficiently clear for anyone who wants to understand.

For those who simply do not want to understand, then I’m afraid I cannot help you to understand.

 

[inJESUS]

This is perhaps off-topic but for anyone who is still not clear as to how Muslims view earlier Prophets like Jesus (pbuh), then maybe it would be much better if the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself explain it to you.

Abu Huraira reports that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said:

**“My position, in relation to the prophets who came before me, can be explained in the following example: ‘A man erected a building and adorned his edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche in the corner, where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche! I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in line of the prophets.’” **(Reported by Bukhari and Muslim.)

Since this is, like I mentioned, not really the topic of this thread, I will not elaborate further as I believe that this explanation of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is sufficiently clear for anyone who wants to understand.

For those who simply do not want to understand, then I’m afraid I cannot help you to understand.

is it of any surprise to all that once again Muhammad stole Jesus’ words and attributed them to himself?

Matt 21:42-43 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: `The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.