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Hellisreal
Guest
There were no Muslims at the time of Jesus. The prophet M came along sooo much later its not even… something I need to point out to anyone who knows when he was born for crying out LOUD.
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cor
Guest
Thank you for this information. I thought that Muslims did not believe God was “father.” Do Muslims believe Allah is their Father?
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LilyM
Guest
Tertullian is not a saint - in fact some of his views have been condemned as heresies. So he’s the opposite of a saint.
And no, todays Canon Law of the Catholic Church does not require women to cover their heads - you only need to walk into a Catholic church to realise this.
I love it when you try to speak about our faith from such ignorance.
And you are still a hypocrite for not being baptised as Jesus was.
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dolphinlove
Guest
I just started reading this thread.
You lost me after the first sentence when you called Jesus a prophet.
I dont know how many times I have to repeat myself.
Jesus is the SON of God.
Repeat this three times Ham, and it will stay with you for the rest of your life.
You lost me after the first sentence when you called Jesus a prophet.
I dont know how many times I have to repeat myself.
Jesus is the SON of God.
Repeat this three times Ham, and it will stay with you for the rest of your life.
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Holly3278
Guest
If Muslims were* true* followers of Jesus, they’d be Catholic! 
Anyway, that is just half joking. Muslims get a lot of things wrong. Like they deny the divinity of Jesus. That is wrong. Jesus is fully divine and fully human. I like to witness to Muslims when I get the chance.
Anyway, that is just half joking. Muslims get a lot of things wrong. Like they deny the divinity of Jesus. That is wrong. Jesus is fully divine and fully human. I like to witness to Muslims when I get the chance.
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Morning_Star15
Guest
Ham, it boggles my mind that you would claim to do everything that Jesus did to a “T”, when you haven’t been baptised in water, as Jesus was, He who certainly didn’t need baptism, but only did it to set an example of what we’re supposed to do. I would provide you with other examples of things that Christ did and taught that Muslims don’t follow, but I won’t bother because the baptism one is sufficient. Good luck dodging this one (or ignoring it). 
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Integritus
Guest
You have a good eye.
Our Muslim friend now has a choice if he still wants to be the ‘true’ follower of Jesus Christ. 1) Believe the Newsweek article with dubious scholars, and only believe Jesus about God the Father (thereby denying an important Islamic teaching that God is not Father) 2) believe everything Christ said as preserved by the successors of Jesus’ Apostles and in the Bible 3) or now reject the Newsweek article, and continue to believe the successors of Muhammed’s companions, and in the Qu’ran, and continue to believe that Jews and Catholics have somehow “corrupted” every divine message of Jesus the Messiah, and all the prophets before Him that spoke of His coming.
Of course, 2 of these choices would continue to show inconsistency on the part of our Muslim friend. In any case, may God bless him and us.
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dolphinlove
Guest
Look Ham…
Im going to go off topic here, but…
I know you take a lot of effort with your postings here trying to ‘point out’ how right islam is and how wrong christianity is…
But after several attempts, cant you see we have proved time and time again that christianity is right for the people that come here. You have been proven wrong again and again, but still persist…
How about just accepting the fact none of us will never convert, we are christians and are willing to remain that.
As I said earlier, Jesus IS the SON of GOD, and we will not look at him any other way.
Im going to go off topic here, but…
I know you take a lot of effort with your postings here trying to ‘point out’ how right islam is and how wrong christianity is…
But after several attempts, cant you see we have proved time and time again that christianity is right for the people that come here. You have been proven wrong again and again, but still persist…
How about just accepting the fact none of us will never convert, we are christians and are willing to remain that.
As I said earlier, Jesus IS the SON of GOD, and we will not look at him any other way.
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Hellisreal
Guest
Woah!!!
He may have spawned heresy
(not good!!!)but , he may very well be a Saint, yet not declared!
Lets not get hasty here now.
On top of the fact, we are neglecting to mention all the good he did.
Look at how Augustine gets a bad rep over, S*x. think about it.
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LilyM
Guest
Getting a ‘bad rap’ and having some views that don’t fit with current orthodoxy as Augustine did is totally different to being an out and out unrepentant heretic … and I’m certain Hitler and Mussolini did good for a lot of people too, just that they led so many astray and did evil to others.Woah!!!
He may have spawned heresy
but , he may very well be a Saint, yet not declared!
Lets not get hasty here now.
On top of the fact, we are neglecting to mention all the good he did.
Look at how Augustine gets a bad rep over, S*x. think about it.
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Morning_Star15
Guest
And even if Tertullian were a saint, that doesn’t mean that every word that comes out of a theologian’s mouth is Church doctrine. Unless Ham is willing to say that everything that has ever been written by every Muslim Imam and theologian was placed into Muslim law and is still expected to be followed today, bringing a random theologian’s opinion into this debate isn’t going to help his argument at all.
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
Moslems will use parts of Sacred Scripture that’s allegedly in their favor if it can “be used against us” but when shown in full context they run.
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Zooey
Guest
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Montalban
Guest
By “Mont” I take it you mean me, Socrat ?
a) I don’t think Jesus or Mohammad were prophets
and
b) I think Mohammad was less than Jesus (who is God). Man is less than God.
This man Mohamma was much much less
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hamba2han
Guest
Is Jesus (pbuh) a divine son of God because he called God “Father”? Well, how do all Christians refer to Him? What does Jesus himself have to tell us in this regard? Let us read
"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven…"(Matthew 5:45) and
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."(Matthew 5:48)…etc.
There are countless verses in the Bible to this effect. To understand what is meant by the reference to “Father”, we need only read John 8:42:
"Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me."
So the love of God and His prophets is what makes God someone’s “father.” Similarly,
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."(John 8:44)
Obviously, neither the Devil nor God is the physical father of any of them. The term “Father” in that day and age was used by the Jews in the same sense that Christians use the word “father” today to address a priest. It was not meant to be taken literally. Otherwise, the Bible would bear witness that every believer in Jesus (pbuh) is also the “physical” son of God.
Further, please note that Joseph is called a “father” to Pharaoh in Genesis 45:8, and Job is called the “father” of the poor in Job 29:16. Once we read all of this we begin to understand how the Jews used to understand the reference to God Almighty as “Father.”
And when we consider who it was that Jesus (pbuh) was addressing his message to, as seen in the context of the verse “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24) and also “These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: 'Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5-6), then it is quite clear that his use of the term “Father” when speaking to the “lost sheep of Israel” was for them to easily understand that he was referring to their Creator.
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hamba2han
Guest
Greetings
Jesus greeted his followers by saying “Peace be upon you”. In chapter 20:19, the anonymous author of the Gospel according to John wrote the following about Jesus after his supposed crucifixion: **“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ ” ** This greeting was according to that of the prophets, as mentioned in the books of the Old Testament. For example, in 1st Samuel 25:6, Prophet David instructed emissaries whom he sent to Nabal: “And thus you shall salute him: ‘Peace be to you, and peace be to your house, and peace be to all that you have.’ ” The Qur’aan instructs all who enter homes to give greetings of peace; and those entering paradise will be greeted similarly by the angels. In Chapter al-An‘aam (6):54, God instructs the believers to greet each other with peace:
} وَإِذَا جَآءَكَ الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِآيَاتِنَا فَقُلْ سَلاَمٌ عَلَيْكُمْ {
“When those who believe in my signs come to you, greet them: Peace be upon you.”
Whenever Muslims meet each other, they use this greeting.
Compulsory charity
Jesus confirmed the institution of compulsory charity, known as “the tithe (tenth)”, which was required from the annual harvest to be given back to God in celebration. In Deuteronomy 14:22: **“You shall tithe all the yield of your seed, which comes forth from the field year by year.” **
In the 6th chapter, al-An‘aam, verse 141, God reminds the believers to pay the charity at the time of harvest:
} وَهُوَ الَّذِي أَنْشَأَ جَنَّاتٍ مَعْرُوشَاتٍ وَغَيْرَ مَعْرُوشَاتٍ وَالنَّخْلَ وَالزَّرْعَ مُخْتَلِفًا أُكُلُهُ وَالزَّيْتُونَ وَالرُّمَّانَ مُتَشَابِهًا وَغَيْرَ مُتَشَابِهٍ كُلُواْ مِنْ ثَمَرِهِ إِذآ أَثْمَرَ وَآتُواْ حَقَّهُ يَوْمَ حَصَادِهِ وَلاَ تُسْرِفُواْ إِنَّهُ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْمُسْرِفِينَ {
**“It is He who produces trellised and un-trellised gardens, date palms and crops of different shapes and tastes, and olives and pomegranates, similar yet different. Eat of their fruit when they bear, but pay the due at the time of harvest without being extravagant, for, surely He does not like those who are extravagant.” **
The system of compulsory charity (in Arabic, zakaah) is well organized, with different rates for cash and precious metals than that for agricultural products and cattle. Also, those who are eligible to receive are clearly defined in the Qur’aan, Chapter at-Tawbah (9):60. It is mainly distributed among various categories of the poor and is not used to provide a comfortable living for priests.
And so, Muslims follow the way of Jesus (pbuh) in how we greet each other as well as in the matter of compulsory charity.
Jesus greeted his followers by saying “Peace be upon you”. In chapter 20:19, the anonymous author of the Gospel according to John wrote the following about Jesus after his supposed crucifixion: **“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ ” ** This greeting was according to that of the prophets, as mentioned in the books of the Old Testament. For example, in 1st Samuel 25:6, Prophet David instructed emissaries whom he sent to Nabal: “And thus you shall salute him: ‘Peace be to you, and peace be to your house, and peace be to all that you have.’ ” The Qur’aan instructs all who enter homes to give greetings of peace; and those entering paradise will be greeted similarly by the angels. In Chapter al-An‘aam (6):54, God instructs the believers to greet each other with peace:
} وَإِذَا جَآءَكَ الَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِآيَاتِنَا فَقُلْ سَلاَمٌ عَلَيْكُمْ {
“When those who believe in my signs come to you, greet them: Peace be upon you.”
Whenever Muslims meet each other, they use this greeting.
Compulsory charity
Jesus confirmed the institution of compulsory charity, known as “the tithe (tenth)”, which was required from the annual harvest to be given back to God in celebration. In Deuteronomy 14:22: **“You shall tithe all the yield of your seed, which comes forth from the field year by year.” **
In the 6th chapter, al-An‘aam, verse 141, God reminds the believers to pay the charity at the time of harvest:
} وَهُوَ الَّذِي أَنْشَأَ جَنَّاتٍ مَعْرُوشَاتٍ وَغَيْرَ مَعْرُوشَاتٍ وَالنَّخْلَ وَالزَّرْعَ مُخْتَلِفًا أُكُلُهُ وَالزَّيْتُونَ وَالرُّمَّانَ مُتَشَابِهًا وَغَيْرَ مُتَشَابِهٍ كُلُواْ مِنْ ثَمَرِهِ إِذآ أَثْمَرَ وَآتُواْ حَقَّهُ يَوْمَ حَصَادِهِ وَلاَ تُسْرِفُواْ إِنَّهُ لاَ يُحِبُّ الْمُسْرِفِينَ {
**“It is He who produces trellised and un-trellised gardens, date palms and crops of different shapes and tastes, and olives and pomegranates, similar yet different. Eat of their fruit when they bear, but pay the due at the time of harvest without being extravagant, for, surely He does not like those who are extravagant.” **
The system of compulsory charity (in Arabic, zakaah) is well organized, with different rates for cash and precious metals than that for agricultural products and cattle. Also, those who are eligible to receive are clearly defined in the Qur’aan, Chapter at-Tawbah (9):60. It is mainly distributed among various categories of the poor and is not used to provide a comfortable living for priests.
And so, Muslims follow the way of Jesus (pbuh) in how we greet each other as well as in the matter of compulsory charity.
L
LilyM
Guest
He didn’t just call God ‘Father’, he called him ‘Abba’ - which is a term of intimacy, like ‘Daddy’ in English. NOBODY called God by that name before him. So yes, he is unique in his relationship to the Father.
And things like this: "Thomas answered and said unto him [Jesus], My Lord and my God." (John 20:28) are how Jesus has taught us to treat him. Did he tell Thomas that no, he actually wasn’t God? Of course not, because he IS God, ham.
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Morning_Star15
Guest
A question for you: do Muslims practice this charity towards everyone, or only towards fellow Muslims? If it’s only towards fellow Muslims, please show where Jesus said we should only be charitable towards Muslims.
And FYI, Christians do practice charity and wish each other peace - I recommend you do some RESEARCH about Christian practices before making accusations - making these unfounded accusations is not a very charitable thing to do.
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Hellisreal
Guest
My apologies LilyM, I had no idea that Tertullian went off the rails and is most likely in Hell after reading more about him at new advent.
I would discard most, if not all he ever said now.
I would discard most, if not all he ever said now.
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Booklover
Guest
Well, you continue to ignore the bolded posts I made, and considering how much anti-Christian stuff is out there presented by dissidents and so on, I’m not surprised you posted this!
Mk. 7 6-8
He responded, "Well did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
"This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me;
In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines human precepts."
You disregard God’s commandment but cling to human tradition.
Vickie
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