How Muslims follow Jesus (pbuh)

[jack_hawkins]

I have a sneaking suspicion that of all the posters who have “replied” to the points presented in this topic, not a single soul can honestly claim to religiously follow **every one ** of the acts of worship that Jesus (pbuh) taught and practiced as mentioned in this thread.

I submit that those who do not make ablution before prayer and who do not bow and prostrate to their Creator in their prayers simply do not have a clue as to the immense significance of these acts of worship.

Followers really do need to play the part i.e. it is essential that they actually follow the actions and example set by the one they profess to follow, not merely sit back and pontificate on the “true meaning” of the things that he taught.

After all, actions do indeed speak a whole lot louder than words… and this applies especially so for Messengers of God like Jesus (pbuh).

I have a sneaking suspicion that you will continue to ignore the points made to you - since you are a troll not a genuine poster!
Jesus is God - not a Messenger of God.
You don’t follow Jesus because you don’t follow his commands. You follow Muhammad instead, copying him by being intolerant and violent.

 

[Hellisreal]

Hello Ham,

Cant you explain why the Holy Water fonts we use dont count for washing before prayer?

I think I have a good point here ham, tell me if I am wrong.

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

The aim of this thread is to show why Muslims consider ourselves to be the true followers of Prophet Jesus (pbuh).

I will give some examples of teachings which Prophet Jesus followed and taught, but which were later abandoned by the Church. However, most of these teachings were revived in the final message of Islam brought by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and remain a fundamental part of Muslim religious practices until today.

Let’s stay on topic.

Rachel

 

[hamba2han]

that’s if He taught as you are saying. Jesus taught that ALL food is ok, got a problem with that? Jesus taught that circumcision will NOT save you but you still can be circumsized if you are a Jew, got a problem with that? Alcohol is not prohibited in the first place but drunkness is, a bit of alcohol is good for the body, any problem with that?

I believe that the Bible disagrees with you on the points that you have raised.

ab what? like if you dont wash certain parts God will not listen to you ? oh please. Jesus did not teach this sorry.

Then why did Jesus, Moses and Aaron (pbut) themselves make ablution before prayer as recorded in the Bible?

Jesus taught us to teach standing, and looking at heaven as well, and to say “our Father”. Do you do like this?

Apart from bowing and prostration, Muslims will also stand and sit when we perform our Salat prayers.

how about

St Matthew 5:

43 You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thy enemy. 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you:

I find it hard to believe that Muslims follow this very important teaching of Jesus, when they are always saying that theymust punish the unbeliever.

How about this passage from Matthew 10:34-39 in the Bible?

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Don’t Christians need to follow the words of Jesus as recorded in the above Biblical verses as well?

 

[st_lucy]

How about this passage from Matthew 10:34-39 in the Bible?

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Don’t Christians need to follow the words of Jesus as recorded in the above Biblical verses as well?

Well you idea of the sword and Jesus idea of the sword are definitely different. Jesus speaks of loving ones neighbor and loving thy enemy not killing them. When He spoke of the sword in the above passage, he is saying that not all will believe and we are to be willing to still follow Him even if those in our house are not willing. Not to kill those in our house who are non believers.

 

[hamba2han]

Cant you explain why the Holy Water fonts we use dont count for washing before prayer?

Merely sprinkling “holy water” cannot be considered adequate because ablution normally involves the actual washing of the limbs and other specific parts of the body and it has to be performed with the intent of doing it for the sake of the Almighty.

 

[adrift]

You know very little of what Jesus taught.

Jesus’ first miracle was to change water into wine. He drank wine that is what He had at the last supper when He commanded that we drink His blood.

Jesus came and fulfilled the Law. Part of that fulfillment was making it fuller hence there is no longer any circumcision, by the command of Jesus, now there is Baptism which by Jesus’ command replaced circumcision.

Paul was commissioned by Jesus and his teachings are from him. You are untruthful to call Paul’s teaching false. Yours is the false teaching.

 

[adrift]

Merely sprinkling “holy water” cannot be considered adequate because ablution normally involves the actual washing of the limbs and other specific parts of the body and it has to be performed with the intent of doing it for the sake of the Almighty.

Irrelevant such washing is not required anymore. The only part of the body that the Bible mention is the feet not limbs or other specific body parts. Jesus gave us all that was required no where did He require it.

 

[Eireann]

And Paul also said, but I’m sure you won’t believe this either…

**Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Galatians 1:8 **But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.

Muslims believe…while in a cave on Mt. Hirah, Muhammad said that the angel Gabriel appeared to him and commanded him to recite (96:1-19). This recitation became the Qur’an. In these encounters with the angel Gabriel, sometimes he would see the angel, other times he would only hear him, and at others he only heard the sound of a bell through which the words of the angel came.

Since I’m a follower of Christ and so was Saint Paul, I don’t believe that it was a Heavenly Angel.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Merely sprinkling “holy water” cannot be considered adequate because ablution normally involves the actual washing of the limbs and other specific parts of the body and it has to be performed with the intent of doing it for the sake of the Almighty.

How do you find time to pray 5 times a day when you are on here all the time trying to convert people?

 

[hamba2han]

How do you find time to pray 5 times a day when you are on here all the time trying to convert people?

It is not a religious obligation for Muslims to try and convert people, we are however commanded to deliver the Message of Islam to non-Muslims and the rest is entirely up to them for it is they themselves who will be questioned by their Creator on the Day of Judgment why they did or did not embrace Islam after hearing this Message.

And prayers normally take up less than an hour per day for me and so this leaves me a bit of time for message delivery.

 

[Hellisreal]

Merely sprinkling “holy water” cannot be considered adequate because ablution normally involves the actual washing of the limbs and other specific parts of the body and it has to be performed with the intent of doing it for the sake of the Almighty.

How do you know what the intent is?

When I cross myself its in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, AKA GOD.

So its very intent is to do it for the sake of the Almighty.

And what do you mean by “other specific parts”

Please dont tell me if its going to be too graphic.

 

[hamba2han]

How do you know what the intent is?

When I cross myself its in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, AKA GOD.

So its very intent is to do it for the sake of the Almighty.

And what do you mean by “other specific parts”

Please don’t tell me if its going to be too graphic.

You need to ask yourself this question:

Did Jesus himself make ablution and perform his prayers the way that you are doing it?

He followed the way that earlier Prophets like Moses and Abraham (pbut) themselves did it as mentioned in the Torah.

In the Muslim way of making ablution, we would wash our hands, mouth, nose, face, forearms, head, ears and feet… as well as making sure that the rest of our body and our clothes are free from any impurities.

 

[Hellisreal]

You need to ask yourself this question:

Did Jesus himself make ablution and perform his prayers the way that you are doing it?

He followed the way that earlier Prophets like Moses and Abraham (pbut) themselves did it as mentioned in the Torah.

In the Muslim way of making ablution, we would wash our hands, mouth, nose, face, forearms, head, ears and feet… as well as making sure that the rest of our bodies and our clothes are free from any impurities.

Gosh. I do take a shower before Mass so going that far seems…

Maybe its habit due to the lack of adequate bathing facilities back in Muhhamed’s time.

Did Jesus preform the Sign of the Cross with Holy Water?

Think that one through and tell me why that would even make sense.

Let me tell you about the cross, that might help you understand.

 

[hamba2han]

Gosh. I do take a shower before Mass so going that far seems…

Maybe its habit due to the lack of adequate bathing facilities back in Muhhamed’s time.

Did Jesus preform the Sign of the Cross with Holy Water?

Think that one through and tell me why that would even make sense.

Let me tell you about the cross, that might help you understand.

You need to understand that ablution is an act of worship just like the prayer itself and therefore it needs to be done in a prescribed manner and order of washing as well.

Merely taking a shower or even jumping into a pool of water will not serve this purpose because the washing is not being done in proper order or in the prescribed manner.

Would you knowingly pray in a haphazard way or improper order and then hope that God will accept your prayers?

The same goes for making ablution which as I have mentioned is an act of worship by itself.

 

[LilyM]

You need to understand that ablution is an act of worship just like the prayer itself and therefore it needs to be done in a prescribed manner and order of washing as well.

So are our own ‘ritual ablutions’, baptism (which Jesus most certainly did, but you haven’t done) and the Sign of the Cross with Holy Water - done in the manner he prescribed to his followers and they passed on to us.

So I’ll look forward to hearing in the next few weeks that you have been baptised as Jesus was and as he commanded his followers to do???

One thing Jesus DIDN’T do was the ritual ablutions before eating - he is specifically recorded in the gospels as NOT having done them, and being criticised for it, so what makes you think he did or cared about ritual ablutions before prayer? He is nowhere recorded as having done them. Tell us anything in the Gospels that says specifically that he washed before prayer, or at any other time except his baptism.

Would you knowingly pray in a haphazard way or improper order and then hope that God will accept your prayers?

‘Improper’ order? There isn’t an ‘improper’ way for anyone to talk to anyone else, unless your INTENT is to be rude or offensive in some way.

 

[Hellisreal]

You need to understand that ablution is an act of worship just like the prayer itself and therefore it needs to be done in a prescribed manner and order of washing as well.

Merely taking a shower or even jumping into a pool of water will not serve this purpose because the washing is not being done in proper order or in the prescribed manner.

Would you knowingly pray in a haphazard way or improper order and then hope that God will accept your prayers?

The same goes for making ablution which as I have mentioned is an act of worship by itself.

Thanks for the explaination Ham, I am not going to say much here because I greatly respect anyone who takes their faith seriously and quite clearly this is a very big deal to Muslims about this washing ritual.

I have no problem with that, I do have a problem with you telling me Jesus wants me to do that and told his apostles to tell us to do that too.

Its hard to imagine he would have since I never read about this particular thing being taught in the bible or in the Early Church the way you describe.

I guess this is a later development that Muhhamed thought would be best.

 

[cor]

As to the ‘miracle of turning water into wine’, it is found only in the Gospel of John, which consistently contradicts the other three gospels. The Gospel of John was opposed as heretical in the early Church, while the other three Gospels were referred to as the Synoptic Gospels because the texts contained a similar treatment of Jesus’ life. Consequently, New Testament scholars have expressed doubt about the authenticity of this incident.

Muslims follow Prophet Jesus (pbuh) by not consuming alcohol.

Do you have more information or details on how the Gospel of John was “opposed as heretical in the early Church”? Which persons opposed it?

There are followers of Jesus, namely certain “Messianic Jews”, who agree with you about pork and circumcision. These followers of Jesus still follow the Torah. You can read more about them here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

Maybe you should explore that religion, with God guiding your heart.

 

[jack_hawkins]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[hamba2han]

Do you have more information or details on how the Gospel of John was “opposed as heretical in the early Church”? Which persons opposed it?

“The Fourth Gospel was opposed as heretical in the early church, and it knows none of the stories associated with John, son of Zebedee. In the judgment of many scholars, it was produced by a ‘school’ of disciples, probably in Syria.”
- Robert W. Funk, Roy W. Hoover, and the Jesus Seminar, The Five Gospels

The rest of this article can be read here.

Also, the following is an excerpt from another article:

This claim of Jesus as “God” is found only in John and most likely reflects a later development of Christian theology known as the Holy Trinity where Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit are came to be known as three persons in one body. John’s view of Jesus is a more theologically sophisticated one than of other gospel writers. That being said, this idea of Jesus as God is an extremely radical one, especially in a Jewish society in which even evoking the name of God could result in execution. Such views have caused some to question whether John was in the mainstream of early Christianity or if he might have written a gospel considered heretical by early Jewish-Christians.