How My View on Gay Marriage Changed

[TheTrueCentrist]

nytimes.com/2012/06/23/opinion/how-my-view-on-gay-marriage-changed.html?_r=3

This article is by David Blankenhorn, the founder of the Institute for American Values and had, until recently, been active in campaigning against gay marriage.

I had hoped that the gay marriage debate would be mostly about marriage’s relationship to parenthood. But it hasn’t been. Or perhaps it’s fairer to say that I and others have made that argument, and that we have largely failed to persuade. In the mind of today’s public, gay marriage is almost entirely about accepting lesbians and gay men as equal citizens. And to my deep regret, much of the opposition to gay marriage seems to stem, at least in part, from an underlying anti-gay animus. To me, a Southerner by birth whose formative moral experience was the civil rights movement, this fact is profoundly disturbing.

 

[Elizabeth502]

…like it’s such a surprise that the domestic Ministers of Propaganda, the NYT, published this -]hit/-] hate piece.

Just like they published recently another hate-piece which was so clearly an indoctrination piece in their “Religion” section – about some college guy talking about his roommate, with the usual stereotypes and inaccuracies about Christians and Christianity.

“Animus???” Yeah, right. Look in the mirror, guys. You invented Animus as it applies from the secular press to any Christian Church whatsoever.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I do agree with what he is saying. We’re losing the gay marriage debate because we have already, at this point, eroded the meaning of marriage. For most people marriage is nothing more than a public ceremony of an expression of love by two persons to one another where they are given civil rights as a couple. How do you say that doesn’t apply to homosexuals? Before we can win this battle, we need to get back to basics. We need to make people understand what marriage in its entirety is. And starting with “it is between a man and a woman” won’t suffice at this point of the battle.

 

[Crescentinus]

Should I post that blogpost by Bad Catholic about this very issue?

 

[Durus]

…like it’s such a surprise that the domestic Ministers of Propaganda, the NYT, published this -]hit/-] hate piece.

Just like they published recently another hate-piece which was so clearly an indoctrination piece in their “Religion” section – about some college guy talking about his roommate, with the usual stereotypes and inaccuracies about Christians and Christianity.

“Animus???” Yeah, right. Look in the mirror, guys. You invented Animus as it applies from the secular press to any Christian Church whatsoever.

Hate piece?

There was nothing even remotely hateful about that editorial. Just because someone doesn’t share your personal views on a subject, doesn’t mean their automatically espousing hatred.

 

[austenbosten]

“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.”

:yup:

 

[MidnightSun12]

I do agree with what he is saying. We’re losing the gay marriage debate because we have already, at this point, eroded the meaning of marriage. For most people marriage is nothing more than a public ceremony of an expression of love by two persons to one another where they are given civil rights as a couple. How do you say that doesn’t apply to homosexuals? Before we can win this battle, we need to get back to basics. We need to make people understand what marriage in its entirety is. And starting with “it is between a man and a woman” won’t suffice at this point of the battle.

I think the fundamental problem here is that people no longer see sodomy as being a grossly disordered act. No doubt a big contributor to this is the protestant view that contracepted sex is valid in the eyes of God. Once a sexual act no longer has to be open to life, what’s wrong with masturbation or even homosexual sodomy???

Really, this problem started back in the 1930’s with the acceptance of contraception…it’s just the nature of the moral relativism heresy that it takes a couple of generations to reach such a sorry state of affairs.

As Catholics, the solution to this problem is much more then just voting for the least-evil party on election day. Like Michael Voris says, we need to know and understand our faith. It’s not enough to tell people that we don’t use contraception or oppose gay marriage because the church doesn’t allow it… we need to be able to explain our beliefs logically and reveal to people the divine brilliance behind them. I know from my own personal conversion to the faith, that sinful beliefs never hold up under heavy scrutiny (there’s just no way to justify them if you truly and honestly think about them). What we have to do, as Catholics, is start getting people to truly scrutinize their beliefs and ask themselves “why do I support gay marriage?” or “why do I contracept?”.

 

[Gods_Peace]

I do agree with what he is saying. We’re losing the gay marriage debate because we have already, at this point, eroded the meaning of marriage. For most people marriage is nothing more than a public ceremony of an expression of love by two persons to one another where they are given civil rights as a couple. How do you say that doesn’t apply to homosexuals? Before we can win this battle, we need to get back to basics. We need to make people understand what marriage in its entirety is. And starting with “it is between a man and a woman” won’t suffice at this point of the battle.

I totally agree with you, first you destroy the meaning of marriage, replace it with mans own interests, and then poof, we’ve got a speedway ticket to hell. What God defines as marriage is a man and a woman (Mans partner given by God) becoming one.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I think the fundamental problem here is that people no longer see sodomy as being a grossly disordered act. No doubt a big contributor to this is the protestant view that contracepted sex is valid in the eyes of God. Once a sexual act no longer has to be open to life, what’s wrong with masturbation or even homosexual sodomy???

Really, this problem started back in the 1930’s with the acceptance of contraception…it’s just the nature of the moral relativism heresy that it takes a couple of generations to reach such a sorry state of affairs.

As Catholics, the solution to this problem is much more then just voting for the least-evil party on election day. Like Michael Voris says, we need to know and understand our faith. It’s not enough to tell people that we don’t use contraception or oppose gay marriage because the church doesn’t allow it… we need to be able to explain our beliefs logically and reveal to people the divine brilliance behind them. I know from my own personal conversion to the faith, that sinful beliefs never hold up under heavy scrutiny (there’s just no way to justify them if you truly and honestly think about them). What we have to do, as Catholics, is start getting people to truly scrutinize their beliefs and ask themselves “why do I support gay marriage?” or “why do I contracept?”.

I may be wrong and I haven’t tracked the history of it all, but this is something that has been a long time coming. I think the fact that we have made Marriage a legal contract even in the eyes of a Church is the root of the problem that has slowly eroded over time and got to where it is today. We can’t win the gay marriage debate with this mindset. If marriage is nothing more than a vow between two loving persons, then certainly the gays have a valid argument that they should have that “right” as well.

 

[Gods_Peace]

I think the fundamental problem here is that people no longer see sodomy as being a grossly disordered act. No doubt a big contributor to this is the protestant view that contracepted sex is valid in the eyes of God. Once a sexual act no longer has to be open to life, what’s wrong with masturbation or even homosexual sodomy???

Really, this problem started back in the 1930’s with the acceptance of contraception…it’s just the nature of the moral relativism heresy that it takes a couple of generations to reach such a sorry state of affairs.

As Catholics, the solution to this problem is much more then just voting for the least-evil party on election day. Like Michael Voris says, we need to know and understand our faith. It’s not enough to tell people that we don’t use contraception or oppose gay marriage because the church doesn’t allow it… we need to be able to explain our beliefs logically and reveal to people the divine brilliance behind them. I know from my own personal conversion to the faith, that sinful beliefs never hold up under heavy scrutiny (there’s just no way to justify them if you truly and honestly think about them). What we have to do, as Catholics, is start getting people to truly scrutinize their beliefs and ask themselves “why do I support gay marriage?” or “why do I contracept?”.

But the church has perfectly logical reason’s, from Revealed Truths and Proper reasoning faculties being united to argue against sodomy, the true centrist is going to have a hard wake up if he doesn’t change. He’s a man who wastes his God given gifts, so they will be stripped away from him if he continues to twist them to his condemnation.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I totally agree with you, first you destroy the meaning of marriage, replace it with mans own interests, and then poof, we’ve got a speedway ticket to hell. What God defines as marriage is a man and a woman (Mans partner given by God) becoming one.

At this point I am more inclined to just focus on restoring the true meaning of marriage. The gay marriage debate will eventually be washed away by the tsunami of the truth. But we can’t win this debate right now given what everyone else thinks what marriage is.

 

[_Abyssinia]

It is offensive to compare those who want gay ‘marriage’ to the civil rights movement, and David Blankenhorn should know better.

The two can not be compared as there is no scientific proof that homosexuality is something that is genetic, unlike skin colour.

 

[Gods_Peace]

Exactly! I’m so tired of people thinking marriage is just a partner for lustful desires. God didn’t create marriage to preserve lust, but to do exactly the opposite! It’s going to be hard to get the Truth into their ears, seeing how much they hate it. Proper marriage, the way God had designed it to be bears much virtue and fruit. Mans sinful version of what constitutes marriage bears sin which turns into death.

 

[Durus]

Canada has had Gay marriage since 2005 and everything has been fine. Love between two consenting adults is actually quite beautiful.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Canada has had Gay marriage since 2005 and everything has been fine. Love between two consenting adults is actually quite beautiful.

And herein lies the problem. While love is an integral part of marriage, marriage is more than just love. And it certainly is more than just consent. This is why I said earlier that the problem began when we started with a legalistic view of marriage.

 

[MidnightSun12]

But the church has perfectly logical reason’s, from Revealed Truths and Proper reasoning faculties being united to argue against sodomy, the true centrist is going to have a hard wake up if he doesn’t change. He’s a man who wastes his God given gifts, so they will be stripped away from him if he continues to twist them to his condemnation.

I absolutely agree with you there!

The problem is that so many priests and lay-Catholics have no concept of what the church teaches, is apathetic towards the teachings, or even actively opposes them that we can no longer simply direct inquiring minds towards the nearest RCIA class in the hopes that the truth will be revealed to them there. As enlightened Catholics, we have to take the first steps in sheperding the flock and teaching people about the beauty of the authentic Catholic faith since the majority of church leaders just don’t seem to be up to the job, anymore…

 

[ConstantineTG]

I absolutely agree with you there!

The problem is that so many priests and lay-Catholics have no concept of what the church teaches, is apathetic towards the teachings, or even actively opposes them that we can no longer simply direct inquiring minds towards the nearest RCIA class in the hopes that the truth will be revealed to them there. As enlightened Catholics, we have to take the first steps in sheperding the flock and teaching people about the beauty of the authentic Catholic faith since the majority of church leaders just don’t seem to be up to the job, anymore…

The beliefs of the laity is not even the tip of the iceberg. The problem is the larger secular world believes that marriage is something else. In the First Millennium homosexuality was prevalent, but they never thought of entering into homosexual marriages. They know back then what marriage was and that homosexual relationships have no place in marriage. Today, the general view of what marriage is has shifted even among the heterosexuals. That is why you have polygamy, bigamy, domestic partnerships, etc.

 

[Durus]

The beliefs of the laity is not even the tip of the iceberg. The problem is the larger secular world believes that marriage is something else. In the First Millennium homosexuality was prevalent, but they never thought of entering into homosexual marriages. They know back then what marriage was and that homosexual relationships have no place in marriage. Today, the general view of what marriage is has shifted even among the heterosexuals. That is why you have polygamy, bigamy, domestic partnerships, etc.

The human race has always had polygamy, domestic partnerships and bigamy. Those things didn’t come about because of homosexual marriage.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The human race has always had polygamy, domestic partnerships and bigamy. Those things didn’t come about because of homosexual marriage.

No, that is not the point I was trying to make. I’m saying our view on marriage has changed which is what led to homosexual marriage. It is the result, not the cause.

 

[Durus]

No, that is not the point I was trying to make. I’m saying our view on marriage has changed which is what led to homosexual marriage. It is the result, not the cause.

thanks for clearing that up. Now I see what you meant.