How Not to Argue

[denitaA]

**I’m a very sensitive person. Today before the meeting of my Catholic Daughters’ group, one of the Ladies, who’s very liberal, was complaining about a parish she visited where there were only male EMCs. she and another lady were remarking that our Holy Father was “going backwards.” I spoke up,“What’s wrong with that?” and she referred to a book she was reading called*What Jesus Meant.*While we weren’t loud, I argued in favor of Tradition, saying "I didn’t join the Catholic Church to be Protestant, and sited a few liturgical abuses, and laypeople “taking over parishes,” Like I said we weren’t loud, but I ended up in tears. Now I know I shouldn’t have argued in the first place, but hearing that talk upset me. What should I have done instead?

BTW she said the book was written by some nuns.**

 

[Mike30]

**I’m a very sensitive person. Today before the meeting of my Catholic Daughters’ group, one of the Ladies, who’s very liberal, was complaining about a parish she visited where there were only male EMCs. she and another lady were remarking that our Holy Father was “going backwards.” I spoke up,“What’s wrong with that?” and she referred to a book she was reading called*What Jesus Meant.***While we weren’t loud, I argued in favor of Tradition, saying "I didn’t join the Catholic Church to be Protestant, and sited a few liturgical abuses, and laypeople “taking over parishes,” Like I said we weren’t loud, but I ended up in tears. Now I know I shouldn’t have argued in the first place, but hearing that talk upset me. What should I have done instead?

BTW she said the book was written by some nuns.

If you did as you said I don’t see that you did anything wrong at all.

Current Pope going backwards. Yes, many progressives make that claim as they see the distinct possibility of them losing some of the gains they claim to have made in the years since Vatican II. make no mistake about it. There are those who want want nothing less than the total extermination of anything even remotely traditional in the Church so that the new Church can be born. They are very dangerous.

 

[Hound_Dog]

**I’m a very sensitive person. Today before the meeting of my Catholic Daughters’ group, one of the Ladies, who’s very liberal, was complaining about a parish she visited where there were only male EMCs. she and another lady were remarking that our Holy Father was “going backwards.” I spoke up,“What’s wrong with that?” and she referred to a book she was reading called*What Jesus Meant.***While we weren’t loud, I argued in favor of Tradition, saying "I didn’t join the Catholic Church to be Protestant, and sited a few liturgical abuses, and laypeople “taking over parishes,” Like I said we weren’t loud, but I ended up in tears. Now I know I shouldn’t have argued in the first place, but hearing that talk upset me. What should I have done instead?

BTW she said the book was written by some nuns.

You did nothing wrong. In fact I brought up a topic last week about my feelings about the Church becoming protestant and some gave me grief. While I applaud those that have come from another denomination and became one with the Universal Church, I don’t like the way some are trying to bring protestant practices and thinking into the Church.

Now I’ve done it lol

 

[TheRealJuliane]

**I’m a very sensitive person. Today before the meeting of my Catholic Daughters’ group, one of the Ladies, who’s very liberal, was complaining about a parish she visited where there were only male EMCs. she and another lady were remarking that our Holy Father was “going backwards.” I spoke up,“What’s wrong with that?” and she referred to a book she was reading called*What Jesus Meant.***While we weren’t loud, I argued in favor of Tradition, saying "I didn’t join the Catholic Church to be Protestant, and sited a few liturgical abuses, and laypeople “taking over parishes,” Like I said we weren’t loud, but I ended up in tears. Now I know I shouldn’t have argued in the first place, but hearing that talk upset me. What should I have done instead?

BTW she said the book was written by some nuns.

“Some nuns” are in heresy. I don’t know that book but be aware that there are nuns who believe that women should be ordained. Your group may have several members who want that to happen too. It would be good if you had some back-up before taking them on, but you did nothing wrong. We all have to defend our Church from heresy.

Hang in there, and keep bravely stating the truth!

 

[onjac]

Just hang in there.

 

[MarkThompson]

I’m a very sensitive person. … I ended up in tears.
. . .
Now I know I shouldn’t have argued in the first place, but hearing that talk upset me. What should I have done instead?

If you can’t deal with hearing people who disagree with you, then the solution is not to engage in such discussions! I suppose the other solution would be to deliberately seek out such confrontations and toughen yourself up a bit. But there is nothing wrong with being sensitive, provided you recognize that about yourself (which you do). Simply avoid getting into situations that will aggravate you, even if the other people are, strictly speaking, in the wrong.

 

[RogerDeCourcy]

Just remain calm and state Church dogma and discipline. You may get an angry reaction. The Devil doesn’t like to hear the Truth. State the facts in charity and walk on.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

Just hang in there.

I agree, hang in there. You did nothing wrong.

 

[po18guy]

BTW she said the book was written by some nuns.

You have likely identified the problem. Methinks that she views the Church as “going backward” only in relation to her steaming full-speed ahead toward the unknown.

You are sensitive for a reason - in this case it was to be offended by her radical views, so as to make orthodoxy known. A faith does not last 2,000 years by being blown about on the winds of change.

I would have asked her if she has considered the Episcopal faith. She can roar there with little fear of controversy.

 

[SrMarie]

“What Jesus Meant” was written by Garry Wills - I’m pretty sure HE isn’t a nun…

Women being ordained wasn’t even a part of this original topic and then all the sudden somehow we jumped again to heretic nuns (really sisters).

If we could just have a little better communication as a Church we might be able to solve some of these misunderstandings and disagreements before people get offended and emotional.

It’s good to be offended and emotional when it is about something intrinsic to the faith. Sometimes we have to know how to pick our battles. Part of our vocation as faithful Christians is to work for unity. There are essentials we have to believe and the things that are practices or inconsequential rules/disciplines can sometimes vary and people can have different viewpoints.

You are certainly entitled to your point of view and so is the woman you spoke with. It was good that you expressed your opinion.

Whenever I hear someone say we are going backwards I try to say, “No, we are moving forward and this forward movement has to do with reevaluating some of the things we lost and renewing them.” This invites the person to be a part of the renewal instead of fearing that the backwards movement is going to be harmful.

 

[_Abyssinia]

**I’m a very sensitive person. Today before the meeting of my Catholic Daughters’ group, one of the Ladies, who’s very liberal, was complaining about a parish she visited where there were only male EMCs. she and another lady were remarking that our Holy Father was “going backwards.” I spoke up,“What’s wrong with that?” and she referred to a book she was reading called*What Jesus Meant.***While we weren’t loud, I argued in favor of Tradition, saying "I didn’t join the Catholic Church to be Protestant, and sited a few liturgical abuses, and laypeople “taking over parishes,” Like I said we weren’t loud, but I ended up in tears. Now I know I shouldn’t have argued in the first place, but hearing that talk upset me. What should I have done instead?

BTW she said the book was written by some nuns.

Book was not written by nuns, it was written by Garry Wills. Here is a refutation to the book:

firstthings.com/article/2007/01/a-jesus-just-for-me-37

 

[Moore11]

The Pope is not “going backwards” he is reminding us of the path that we have been on for 2000 years. He is gently correcting the Church to keep us on course. That is hardly backwards. But rather forwards toward heaven.

 

[Andre1000]

**I’m a very sensitive person. Today before the meeting of my Catholic Daughters’ group, one of the Ladies, who’s very liberal, was complaining about a parish she visited where there were only male EMCs. she and another lady were remarking that our Holy Father was “going backwards.” I spoke up,“What’s wrong with that?” and she referred to a book she was reading called*What Jesus Meant.***While we weren’t loud, I argued in favor of Tradition, saying "I didn’t join the Catholic Church to be Protestant, and sited a few liturgical abuses, and laypeople “taking over parishes,” Like I said we weren’t loud, but I ended up in tears. Now I know I shouldn’t have argued in the first place, but hearing that talk upset me. What should I have done instead?

BTW she said the book was written by some nuns.

Maybe you should practice to argue, so that you became good at arguing.
Practice makes perfect.

 

[denitaA]

“What Jesus Meant” was written by Garry Wills - I’m pretty sure HE isn’t a nun…

Did Mr. Wills interview some nuns then? Madonna (the lady), did mention that some nuns talking about those things in the book. As in, “Read what these nuns in here have to say.” Which made me assume they wrote it. Sorry for misunderstanding that part.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

I recommend the book, “How to Win Friends and Influence People.” It deals with this topic.

 

[HelenRose]

**I’m a very sensitive person. Today before the meeting of my Catholic Daughters’ group, one of the Ladies, who’s very liberal, was complaining about a parish she visited where there were only male EMCs. she and another lady were remarking that our Holy Father was “going backwards.” I spoke up,“What’s wrong with that?” and she referred to a book she was reading called*What Jesus Meant.***While we weren’t loud, I argued in favor of Tradition, saying "I didn’t join the Catholic Church to be Protestant, and sited a few liturgical abuses, and laypeople “taking over parishes,” Like I said we weren’t loud, but I ended up in tears. Now I know I shouldn’t have argued in the first place, but hearing that talk upset me. What should I have done instead?

BTW she said the book was written by some nuns.

You did not do anything wrong at all. However, people like this are well armed and ready to destroy your faith in God. I don’t know if I am taking the right position either but I don’t try to argue with someone who is out to destroy my faith anymore.

What I am going to do from now on is: If I am called upon to defend the Church, I will simply say, “I am a devout conservative Catholic and I disagree with you.” If pressed I will say, “I am a devout conservative Catholic and I disagree with you.”

Now, if someone is genuinely asking me why I believe what I believe, I will try to do the best I can to answer. But, if they are setting a trap for me, I back off. Remember how the Pharisees would try and trap Jesus? He knew what the traps were and how to respond. I don’t have that gift.

The best I can do is a gentle smile and my firm statement of faith. I won’t raise my voice. I won’t cry. I won’t back down. I won’t argue. But I will make my position known.

As for the nuns. Well, I follow the Desert Nuns in Arizona - desertnuns.com/ .

They are a wonderful antidote and answer to the words of angry feminist nuns. I love these young women who are doing their very best to love and serve God.

P.S. medievaldreams2reality.blogspot.com/

 

[AlanFromWichita]

If you can’t deal with hearing people who disagree with you, then the solution is not to engage in such discussions! I suppose the other solution would be to deliberately seek out such confrontations and toughen yourself up a bit. But there is nothing wrong with being sensitive, provided you recognize that about yourself (which you do). Simply avoid getting into situations that will aggravate you, even if the other people are, strictly speaking, in the wrong.

This is good advice. Like the OP, I’m a very sensitive person and when I knew I was right and others were wrong but I couldn’t get it across, it would kill me. I’ve used the approach of deliberately jumping into things that I find important and not get caught up in it. Next step, don’t let it bother. Then, be able to speak without turning them against me … and finally my graduation of all this is to post in this forum section.

 

[SrMarie]

Did Mr. Wills interview some nuns then? Madonna (the lady), did mention that some nuns talking about those things in the book. As in, “Read what these nuns in here have to say.” Which made me assume they wrote it. Sorry for misunderstanding that part.

I have never read the book so I have no idea - but you can take a quote from anyone and twist it to support your point. You don’t have to be sorry, I wasn’t annoyed with you, I realize you were repeating what was said to you. I hope you didn’t feel that I was tsk-tsking you… that was not my intention.

The woman probably thinks that sisters have more authority than a lay man and so over-exaggerated their “participation” in the content of the book.

It just helps when we are trying to work together as Catholics to make sure we are focused on working towards unity and NOT towards being right as an individual. We should be seekers of truth which is different than always being right. It seems like that wasn’t your problem but it seems that it was the other woman’s problem. She wanted to be right. It’s in our human nature but it never helps anyone grow closer to God.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

It just helps when we are trying to work together as Catholics to make sure we are focused on working towards unity and NOT towards being right as an individual. We should be seekers of truth which is different than always being right. It seems like that wasn’t your problem but it seems that it was the other woman’s problem. She wanted to be right. It’s in our human nature but it never helps anyone grow closer to God.

This is soo true. Last year for Lent, I fasted from my need to be right in any given setting.

It changed my life for the better. Very self-effacing.