How not to be poor

[misericordie]

Island Oak:

Sounds more like a social bias than anything supported by statistics as inherited wealth is entirely distinct from earned income–one can be enhanced by a college degree, the other is determined entirely by the genetics lottery. I don’t doubt there is a correlation between college educated parents and college attendance by their offspring–recognition of the value of the education–for many things in addition to mere income generating potential–is usually passed on. Inheritance, if it happens at all, is usually an event that occurs long after one becomes self-sufficient.

Really?! With all due respect I wish your kids good luck–and lots of scholarship opportunities. I’m trying to imagine what kind of job is out there that provides an unskilled, inexperienced 18 year old with enough income to pay for college, living expenses, allows sufficient time to study and graduate debt-free within 4 years?!?

I agree with th last statement.
Well, I have a four year college degree from a famous Jesuit University, and NO one in my family EVER attended college.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

Pete2:

This argument completely ignores the point, which is that racism and slavery is what got black people into this situation in the first place.

And it is a spiral. The points you make, Rob’s Wife, on higher education/income make this point beautifully: it’s easier for a highly educated couple to give their kids good education because they probably are doing better than average financially,
:yup: ** Yes. Exactly so.**
and they probably are smart enough to teach their kids good values.
:nope: **You responded to me while I was responding to you, so I’ll restate that here is where I disagree. Values = morals and neither are subject to finances. Poor parents do have to make some tough choices. But to say “Well, of course he beat the daylights out of his kids! He’s ignorant and poor!” ?? I disagree. **
Poor people from broken homes who were abused or lacked good leadership from parents, and whose parents did not provide good educations to them, are not well equipped to break out. You don’t have to go back more than a couple generations to figure out why black communities are in more of a rut than white communities: racism. Our parents and grandparents lived in a society where racism was acceptable. So now all the sudden we expect black people to break out of the cycle?
Whoa there! What cycle? The cycle of abuse or the cycle or poverty? Are you saying black people today beat their kids and do drugs because some white people 50 years ago or now were/are racist?
It’s like telling a poor homeless person on the street: why don’t you just get up off the ground, take a shower, and then go get yourself a job! Problem fixed! It is not that easy. Although I’m sure that the author of this article and his ultra-conservative Republican friends would probably think that homeless people COULD just get up off the street, take a shower, and become productive members of society.
No. I don’t think that at all. It’s more like telling a poor homeless person: this is the direction you need to go to get off the streets. Here, take this map and if you follow it, you have a really good chance at bettering your life.
Pete

 

[Lillith]

misericordie:

Yup, and it is really sad that some people struggle to have even the basics, while the wealthier get wealthier, and yet basic programs such as the one you mention get eliminated or reduced, so as to give tax breaks to those who make over 75,000$ a year.

Hello…late in the game as always…I just had to clear up (what I see as) a misconception in this statement. My husband makes 75,000$ a year, and we paid 20,000$ in taxes last year…Isn’t that our civic duty performed well?

The fact is that I don’t know when these “tax breaks for the rich” will kick in and when my husband made 55,000$ a year we were doing the same (savings, vacations, ect.), nothing has seemed to change. I am finding “the more you make the more they take” to be very true. Maybe big corporations know loopholes…but not I, and it would be wrong, in my opinion, to look for ways to cheat.

I’m not complaining…I know I’m Blessed…but I want you to know I about flipped when I realized we had paid that much! That was a yearly salary for me when I worked outside the home.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Our parents and grandparents lived in a society where racism was acceptable. So now all the sudden we expect black people to break out of the cycle?

Booker T Washington broke the cycle and so did George Washington Carver. Both were slaves and the offspring of slaves.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

Island Oak:

Sounds more like a social bias than anything supported by statistics as inherited wealth is entirely distinct from earned income–one can be enhanced by a college degree, the other is determined entirely by the genetics lottery.
Legally yes. But in reality the income a parent has is usually shared to some extent with the children before the parent dies - this is what I meant by “inherited”. Most parents do help their children out financially while living.

Really?! With all due respect I wish your kids good luck–and lots of scholarship opportunities. I’m trying to imagine what kind of job is out there that provides an unskilled, inexperienced 18 year old with enough income to pay for college, living expenses, allows sufficient time to study and graduate debt-free within 4 years?!?
You didn’t read all of my post. I said I wouldn’t foot the bill - not that I’d kick them out to sink or swim on their own entirely. And why does it have to be within 4 years? Does something horrible happen if it takes 5? Or what if they go on to graduate school?

I’m sorry if I’m managed to offend you again. It wasn’t my intent to do so, just saying there are other ways to get a college education that some find to be more practical in the long term. Should others feel a need to do it differently, they are certainly welcome to do so. It’s just not what we have chosen.

 

[Pete2]

Rob’s Wife,

Drugs, physical abuse, and broken homes strongly coorelate with poverty and low education. It doesn’t matter whether these people are black or white. People with no money and no education are more prone to these other social problems. Not to say that all poor people have drug problems. But there are more drug problems in poor neighborhoods, this is not disputed.

The spiral exists in that it is difficult to break out of this. There are certainly examples of people who break out of the ghetto and go on to academic and financial success. But that is the exception, and not the rule.

So my point is that racism and slavery led to an environment where black people had fewer opportunities than white people. Does anyone disagree? This led to a higher poverty rate among blacks than among whites, and this is documented. And this higher poverty rate leads to all the other social problems, that create a downward spiral that is very difficult to break out of.

With regards to your roadmap analogy-- I agree. But it doesn’t happen all in one generation. It is a multi-generation shift, and we (the government and taxpayers) have to care enough about it to provide the support necessary to help that shift. It’s not just a “get up and dust yourself off” kind of thing. Racism is the root cause.

Pete

 

[Island_Oak]

I’m sorry if I’m managed to offend you again…

Hey, no offense taken here…after all I already have my college degree. Now it’s just getting those saving socked away for my kids…

 

[Therese_Martin]

Notice:

This thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.