How often had Protestants converted people at the tip of the Sword?

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AgnosTheist said:
Well the forceful conversions were quite common (crusades, inquisition, conquistas).
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The Crusades were not about forced conversion. Muslims lived peacefully under Christian rule, just as Christians did under Muslim rule–as long as they acknowledged their defeat and paid a tax. The Inquisition was not theoretically allowed to convert people by force either, but there were times when something like this happened in practice (in the 13th century the Inquisition started condemning rabbinic Judaism as a heretical perversion of Old Testament religion, and of course the Spanish Inquisition went after converted Jews whose conversion was allegedly insincere).
But not really the trickery, as the only trickery i know was the conversion of the Mexicans through the bogus ‘miracle of lourdes’.
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You mean Guadalupe.

I don’t think the argument is that it was a trick at the time, but that it was concocted more than a century later.

Edwin
 
ricmat said:
The crusades purpose was to regain the holy land from the Muslims, not to convert anybody.

. And the Jews who were targets of the inquisition were allowed to retain their faith, so long as they didn’t pretend to be Catholic.

The miracle in Mexico you are (probably) referring to was the apparition of “Our Lady of Guadalupe”. Given the fact that this “bogus miracle” put an end to the human sacrifice of tens of thousands of innocent people annually, and actually forced nobody to convert, I’m not sure what your issue is.

You need to do some outside reading.
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Many errors in this.

The soldiers on the Crusades slaughtered civilians in the holy Land and later in Constantinople indiscriminately in the name of Jesus. Deus vult and all that.

The Catholic Church in the south of France ruthlessly exterminated entire populations of Albigensians and other groups they found heretical. “Kill them all–God will sort them out”.

The Catholic Church performed a major massacre on St. Bartholomew’s Day during the reign of Elisabeth I, which was horrific even for the time.

Mary I burned alive over 350 people during her disastrous but relatively short reign–but too long for those burnt. The Catholics and Jesuits, egged on by the Pope, who called Elizabeth a bastard, sneaked into England and actively worked to overthrow her, plotting her assassination and the placement of Mary Queen of Scots on the throne. The people of England loved Elizabeth as they had hated Mary, and felt that to be Catholic was felt to be tantamount to being a traitor. One Catholic martyr at his execution, later sainted (of course), alleged that he was loyal to the crown, aside from Rome, at which point some one in the crowd yelled “In Rome, all treason is contained!” Philip II of Spain, Mary’s widower, tried to invade England with his Armada, only to be destroyed by the English fleet and bad weather.

Jews in Spain eventually HAD to convert and were often watched to make sure they did not practice Judaism in secret. Eventually all were kicked out or forced to leave, creating a disaster for Spain as this included many of their best and brightest. Many fled to Mexico City and eventually to New Spain, which eventually became New Mexico. There are descendants from the Jewish ‘converson’ in New Mexico to this day. A number have re-converted to Judaism.

The hideous mass burnings of Jews in Spain, the so-called autos da fe, were performed by the state under the aegis of the church, the Dominicans no less. St. Vincent Ferrer, a Dominican saint, was a violent anti-Semite.

The church has long tried to split hairs and deny all of these historical facts with the worst sort of sophistry.

YOU need to do some reading!
 
1234, the history that I know about your religion is that it has relativism written all over it.

Btw, I can’t see “many errors” in his post. Your account of history on the other hand seems to be very one-sided and more likely to contain errors.
 
1234, the St Bartholomew’s Day massacre at least was primarily done at the instigation of the nobility and other civil authorities of France and not the Church.

And if you’re Episcopalian then you must be willing to take on yourself the burden of all the horrors that Henry VIII and Elizabeth I inflicted on English Catholics, the many executions of Catholics, the ruthless destruction of monasteries and wholesale plundering of their sacred and consecrated objects to feed Henry’s (especially) greed for gold?

The social ruin forced upon Catholics who were forbidden from most if not all public offices and fined heavily if they dared to attend Mass? The fact that the royal family who are head of your church STILL cannot by law marry Catholics nor become Catholic without renouncing all rights to the throne?
 
1234 said:
Many errors in this.

The soldiers on the Crusades slaughtered civilians in the holy Land and later in Constantinople indiscriminately in the name of Jesus. Deus vult and all that.

The Catholic Church in the south of France ruthlessly exterminated entire populations of Albigensians and other groups they found heretical. “Kill them all–God will sort them out”.

The Catholic Church performed a major massacre on St. Bartholomew’s Day during the reign of Elisabeth I, which was horrific even for the time.

Mary I burned alive over 350 people during her disastrous but relatively short reign–but too long for those burnt. The Catholics and Jesuits, egged on by the Pope, who called Elizabeth a bastard, sneaked into England and actively worked to overthrow her, plotting her assassination and the placement of Mary Queen of Scots on the throne. The people of England loved Elizabeth as they had hated Mary, and felt that to be Catholic was felt to be tantamount to being a traitor. One Catholic martyr at his execution, later sainted (of course), alleged that he was loyal to the crown, aside from Rome, at which point some one in the crowd yelled “In Rome, all treason is contained!” Philip II of Spain, Mary’s widower, tried to invade England with his Armada, only to be destroyed by the English fleet and bad weather.

Jews in Spain eventually HAD to convert and were often watched to make sure they did not practice Judaism in secret. Eventually all were kicked out or forced to leave, creating a disaster for Spain as this included many of their best and brightest. Many fled to Mexico City and eventually to New Spain, which eventually became New Mexico. There are descendants from the Jewish ‘converson’ in New Mexico to this day. A number have re-converted to Judaism.

The hideous mass burnings of Jews in Spain, the so-called autos da fe, were performed by the state under the aegis of the church, the Dominicans no less. St. Vincent Ferrer, a Dominican saint, was a violent anti-Semite.

The church has long tried to split hairs and deny all of these historical facts with the worst sort of sophistry.

YOU need to do some reading!
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This is absolutely false. Your reading apparently is not from the correct sources.
 
Righteousone said:
This is absolutely false. Your reading apparently is not from the correct sources.
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If those were absolutely false then why did Pope John Paul II issue a formal apology for the past atrocities of Catholics?

The best comment you could make is “Those are not entirely accurate. Your reading apparently is not from the reliable sources”. 😃
 
1234 said:
Mary I burned alive over 350 people during her disastrous but relatively short reign–but too long for those burnt. !
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Traitors were executed by Queen Mary the Great and most of the common people of England were Catholic. The protestant faith was forced on the English Catholic people from above.
 
1234 said:
The hideous mass burnings of Jews in Spain, the so-called autos da fe, were performed by the state under the aegis of the church, the Dominicans no less. St. Vincent Ferrer, a Dominican saint, was a violent anti-Semite.

!
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During the Spanish Inquistition at the most 3000 to 4000 people were executed for their crimes. That is over several hundred years of the Spanish Inquistition. Only the few were put to death. St. Vincent Ferrer was a great saint and the autos da fe were good
 
1234 said:
The Catholic Church in the south of France ruthlessly exterminated entire populations of Albigensians and other groups they found heretical. “Kill them all–God will sort them out”.

!
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Albigensians killed many Catholics and their evil faith would have destoryed French society. Just as the protestant faith has destoryed the faith of Christ in modern europe.
 
Sword_Brethren said:
During the Spanish Inquistition at the most 3000 to 4000 people were executed for their crimes. That is over several hundred years of the Spanish Inquistition. Only the few were put to death. St. Vincent Ferrer was a great saint and the autos da fe were good
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I think its safe to assume that it is only 3 to 4000 because the vast majority of the victims chose self-preservation and accepted catholicism at the tip of the sword…or whatever torture device being employed. like the lovely Iron Virgin.
 
1234 said:
Code: 
The Catholic Church performed a major massacre on St. Bartholomew's Day during the reign of Elisabeth I, which was horrific even for the time.

!
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The Catholic Church did not do that. The french people did that because of their hatred of Calvinism.
 
Tip: When you already have all the answers, don’t put a question in your thread title.
 
Sword_Brethren said:
The Catholic Church did not do that. The french people did that because of their hatred of Calvinism.
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This is how people are told lies and mistruths about the Catholic church. The church that has been preserved for 2,000 years.:signofcross:
 
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