How Practical is it for Women to be Submissive to Their Husbands in Modern Society

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Tis_Bearself said:
If you’re going to spend money, bring money into the house. If you’re not bringing money into the house, then don’t expect a lot of extraneous stuff or status goods.
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Eh, that’s going to be largely in the eye of the beholder, what is “extraneous stuff” and “status goods.”

I agree that everybody has to try to stay in their income.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
One could argue that, but I see too many couples, including in my family, where the man makes the money and then his wife spends more than they can afford.

If you’re going to spend money, bring money into the house. If you’re not bringing money into the house, then don’t expect a lot of extraneous stuff or status goods.
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Well, if my wife stays at home minding the kids then I would consider that to be important work. Just because one person make all the money doesn’t mean the other person’s role is worthless. I know of couples where the wife spends extravagantly too, but it’s more out of lack of cummunication with the husband about what money is available to them. Neither my wife or myself would make a big financial commitment without consulting the other.

I also know one couple where the man makes all the money and the man also makes stupid financial decisions. And buys a lot of “status goods”.
 
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Xantippe said:
Eh, that’s going to be largely in the eye of the beholder, what is “extraneous stuff” and “status goods.”

I agree that everybody has to try to stay in their income.
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I suppose so, but when somebody is overspending, it’s usually not on necessities.

I have seen a husband who went the other extreme and forced his wife and kids to live like they were in Iron Curtain Eastern Europe because he was afraid to spend a dollar. The poor wife was my mother’s good friend. She was so sad, she prayed every day to find some way out of the situation. One day she was praying at church and her husband dropped dead. I hate to say this, but it was a big relief for her.
 
TheAmazingGrace said:
Geez. Can’t they just communicate like mature adults? Playing games never turns out well.
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I will never understand men who want their wives to use “various wiles to get good things out of him.” Why do people prefer to be managed and lied to, rather than communicate like adults? Why is that more respectful of the wife.

Of course, I don’t have much in the way of feminine wiles, and mine are mostly exhausted by dealing with Baby Girl.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
One day she was praying at church and her husband dropped dead.
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I’d say she got some shock though.

Stingyness is not a great trait to bring to marriage. Frugality, on the other hand is essential. Even if you are wealthy, you don’t get that way by throwing your money around.
 
Now you are changing it. The initial question wasn’t about emergency situations where the spouses don’t have time to discuss anything. In those cases, everyone does their best.

My question was how would you handle a situation where your husband ignored your expertise (which assumes you had a chance to make your argument.)
 
Xantippe said:
I will never understand men who want their wives to use “various wiles to get good things out of him.” Why do people prefer to be managed and lied to, rather than communicate like adults? Why is that more respectful of the wife.
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Neither do I. I’m a simple country boy and I just want to be treated as such. 😁
 
AdamPeter said:
Well, if my wife stays at home minding the kids then I would consider that to be important work. Just because one person make all the money doesn’t mean the other person’s role is worthless.
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My mother stayed home and minded the kids (me) and never held a paying job for the 50 years after she was married though she had had a career before.

She handled all the bills because Dad liked her to do that; he didn’t really want to deal with it. But she did not spend Dad’s money in a significant way (such as on a car) without Dad’s significant (name removed by moderator)ut.

This has nothing to do with worthlessness. Mom was not a wimp and was very assertive and raised me to be that way. But the bottom line is that when one person is making the money, then the other person doesn’t just get their way about spending it.

I didn’t work for a couple years because I was in school, on my own loan in my own name that I paid off myself and did not expect my husband to pay off in any way, shape or form because it would have been unfair and burdensome on him. Nor did he (or my parent) co-sign for my loan. During that time, my husband paid for my groceries and other necessities, and carried me on his medical insurance. I did not go out and buy cars, go on vacation, or pay my massive tuition bills on his dime. Once I was out, I assumed responsibility for my own debt, including structuring it so that if I died he would not have to pay it, and making sure he knew that.

I realize couples have different ways of working these things out, but I personally think that each half of a couple should make the effort to not burden the other with avoidable debt. If something unavoidable happens, like job loss or illness, then you have to pull together as a couple, but you don’t just expect the other person to go along with your own money wishes, and the more you can just take care of things yourself, the less worry it is for the other person.
 
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Well, since I’m the expert, I’d act according to my intuition. Kissing up to the male ego is not as important as making prudent decisions in important matters. It would be irresponsible to let him lead me into a potentially bad situation just so I can say I submitted.
 
AdamPeter said:
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babochka:
He knew I didn’t want to go, but he didn’t let up. So I went. Was that submission or self-giving? It was certainly the subjection of my own will to make him happy. But don’t we all do that in marriage, men and women alike? If we aren’t doing that sort of thing for our spouses, we should be.
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Yeah, but if that only goes one way then you are the one dying to your husband and not the other way around.
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Of course! And in a healthy relationship, it will be mutual. The Church clearly teaches that. As my (married) priest likes to put it, marriage is a slow death (to self). I can give many more examples of my husband dying to himself for my good and the good of our family. This is how a healthy marriage looks. But mutual submission still does not change the reality that the Church teaches that the man is the head of the family. The Church does not define how this is going to look in any particular family, of course.

I think you got it right here:
I mean, if the man truly is the head of the family then this is what it means. You are the slave of the family. If you’re going to talk about submission then I think you need to take into context the specific things that Jesus said about marriage and leadership.

About marriage he says that the wife and the husband are to be one in mind and body. That doesn’t sound like “wife…do what man says”.
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This goes to my earlier point. Modern women CHOOSE their husbands. You aren’t randomly assigned one.

Why would you marry someone you couldn’t trust to make decisions for you? Someone you can’t make decisions with?

You understand as next of kin your spouse makes decisions for you when you are unconscious or incapable? This is a person you are literally trusting with your life and your children’s lives. This is the person who will raise your children if you die.

In many ways your husband DOES have final say over a lot in your life. You agree to that when you get married.
 
Xantippe said:
Of course, I don’t have much in the way of feminine wiles, and mine are mostly exhausted by dealing with Baby Girl.
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I feel you. Pretending to be coy and cute is exhausting. Does a number on your dignity, too.
 
KathleenT said:
You understand as next of kin your spouse makes decisions for you when you are unconscious or incapable?
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This applies equally to the wife making decisions for her unconscious or incapable husband, and raising his kids alone should he die. So in many ways the wife has the final say over a lot in the husband’s life too.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
when one person is making the money, then the other person doesn’t just get their way about spending it.
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But neither should the person earning it have an absolute veto on what is bought.
Tis_Bearself said:
I didn’t work for a couple years because I was in school, on my own loan in my own name that I paid off myself and did not expect my husband to pay off in any way, shape or form because it would have been unfair and burdensome on him. Nor did he (or my parent) co-sign for my loan. During that time, my husband paid for my groceries and other necessities, and carried me on his medical insurance. I did not go out and buy cars, go on vacation, or pay my massive tuition bills on his dime. Once I was out, I assumed responsibility for my own debt, including structuring it so that if I died he would not have to pay it, and making sure he knew that.
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This just makes it clear to me that you and I view money in a very different way.
Fair enough if that worked for you. But I don’t believe in splitting financial things like that. I didn’t bring any debt into marriage bar the small loan that I took out to pay for the wedding. But now that we’re married we don’t differentiate between the bills/obligations. It’s all one pot of money.
 
KathleenT said:
Why would you marry someone you couldn’t trust to make decisions for you? Someone you can’t make decisions with?
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I intend to marry someone whose judgment I trust, but I can’t predict how they’ll act in every situation, especially when kids come into the picture. I’m perfectly capable of compromise - I just don’t want to be forced into the role of a subservient partner for fear of offending God. If that was what the Lord intended for me, then He probably would’ve have made me a lot less headstrong.
 
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No, that’s how we work too sans the “make right”. I don’t really know what you mean by that. We make the decision and if it is a flop we deal with it. The person who forced the decision knows who they are, no need to beat a dead horse.

That’s what I mean by final say. If he insists, you have two choices work with him or undermind him.
 
Yes, she does!

The man being head of the family does not mean the wife is a child. She is the wife, she has her own power and authority.
 
And this is why we need to choose spouses who see things our way on money matters.

I know for a fact that my husband would worry himself into an ulcer if he was forced to take on responsibility for a six figure loan for someone’s college. There are actually US states that would force a spouse to take on half the responsibility for that, and any other debt incurred by one person during the marriage, unless perhaps they could get out of it via a prenuptial agreement. Thank God we do not live in any of those states as neither one of us would be comfortable with that approach.

I love my husband. I do not want to worry him. And he loves me and doesn’t want to worry me. So we try to set things up to spare the other person worry. Now sometimes like I said, if somebody loses their job or gets sick, then that’s an unforeseen circumstance and we would be there for each other (has already happened a couple of times). But I did not marry a man in order to needlessly inflict money worries on him. I see it as my job to not do that. And I expect him to feel the same way towards me.
 
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