How Quickly Should We Overturn Roe?

[Tis_Bearself]

Unless there are a bunch of people here who sit on the S Ct bench, you can debate this all day and nothing you say matters.

Supreme Court doesn’t go overturning itself fast, ever, unless FDR shows up with a new court-packing plan, which is not happening.

The Court is also not Congress where people are just going to vote according to their party.

As Blondie sang, dreaming is free, though.

 

[PJH_74]

You will likely simply have fewer abortions. I think measures to support poor women and make men more accountable should be taken though.

Yes, but in some states it’s nearly impossible if you are poor to obtain one at a normal clinic. This is due to the amount of hoops the operators must go through and this results in a scarcity of them. I’d be surprised if there aren’t appreciable numbers of “unofficial” abortions conducted because of this.

Another thing to consider is this one of those issues where people to seek prescribing a moral law as long as it is not them. I’d suspect many people here have not been the young woman with few places to turn in life or the woman who was raped or has had her life endangered.

 

[brishen]

I haven’t read all the replies but I’m going to present what I’m sure is an opposing opinion. Roe V. Wade should not be overturned. This is not a Catholic country, we do not live by religious laws, and FWIW in Judaism abortion is allowed for the health of the mother up until the baby’s head emerges, until then it considered part of the Mother. I personally don’t agree with abortion, but I take the Jewish side on this and I definitely take the view that the government should not impose religious laws. Sorry.
No soul will be lost to abortion, not a single one.

 

[Augustinian]

Roe V. Wade should not be overturned. This is not a Catholic country, we do not live by religious laws,

It is true that America is not a Catholic country, but the Pro Life movement isn’t exclusively Catholic either, by any stretch of the word. People of many religious traditions are united in this regard.

Further, when we talk specifically about Supreme Court decisions like Roe v Wade- they are not supposed to be based upon what the justices think is the best policy. They are supposed to be based upon the Constitution and the statutes passed by Congress and the states. If a justice has the personal opinion that Abortion is hunky dory and the greatest thing since sliced bread- but sees nothing in the constitution to justify a ruling which mandates abortion on demand on a nationwide basis- it would still be the justices duty to overturn it.

Justices are supposed to make their decisions based on the law, not make law.

 

[brishen]

I guess we will to have to agree to disagree, i think Roe V. Wade is constitutional.

 

[Ioana]

Read those studies. They do not just count official abortions. They base their assumptions on more complex measures such as the fertility rate and maternal mortality (few people would argue backyard abortions are safer so if they were to take place we’d see a rise in that). As for the difficult cases, in the case where Mom’s life is in danger it is ok as long as you try to save both. If Mom was raped, that’s sad and we need to offer compassion, jail the rapist and provide her will all the support she needs. Just as we wouldn’t want infanticide to be legal if she were raped though, so we should not want abortion to be legal. As a female, if I were raped, I’d keep the child. Maybe that’s easy to say when the odds of that happening are low and I’d probably have the means to raise the child, but by that logic we should allow any crime victim to do basically anything legally, lest we sound like uncompassionate monsters.

 

[Augustinian]

I guess we will to have to agree to disagree, i think Roe V. Wade is constitutional.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on the constitutionality of Roe.

But the reasoning that you offered in your previous post- that America is not a Catholic country is flawed, and wasn’t the reason Blackmun gave in his opinion. I think all of the justices, even White and Rehnquist who dissented would have agreed America isn’t a Catholic country.

 

[brishen]

I said my reasoning. Jewish law. So I’m fine when civil law keeps the same.

 

[PJH_74]

Read those studies. They do not just count official abortions

I’d like to, but unfortunately I don’t have time to read all of that. But really, does guessing at numbers accomplish much? My main point is that outlawing abortion will just push it underground with the risks I
I’ve mentioned earlier and we’ll be spending even more time trying to guess what is going on.

 

[Ioana]

Fairs, but the studies suggest otherwise. They are not guessing numbers. If abortion rates would really stay the same legal or not then we would not see fertility rates increase and maternal mortality decrease. As you said, backyard abortions are unsafe and would lead to an increase in maternal mortality, thus a decrease is odd. Fertility rate also speaks for itself. Sorry if I came off as aggressive by the way.

 

[hmikell7]

True but it still has to go through the appeals process to be put on the Court’s dockett before it can be fast-tracked, unless I’m mistaken.

 

[bethcoe]

If the government should not impose religious laws then the bottom line is the government should impose no laws. We can take all laws and apply them to religious belief. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal. Both are against the law imposed by the government.
You stated that no soul will be lost by abortion. You are just thinking about the aborted baby. Now think of all the babies that would have come from that baby had the baby been allowed to be born. Children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and on down through the generations that would have come from that one baby that will never exist. Playing God with so many more lives not just the life lost to abortion.
My question for you is you are opposed to abortion personally, why?

 

[Vonsalza]

Illegal abortions will go right on, and people will still use contraception and coitus interruptus and masturbation. You are not making the country any better or moral by this, you are just increasing your feelings of pious accomplishment. The left will still work to kill the family with sexual perversion, and the right will still work to kill the family with economic perversion.

Well, to be fair, overturning Roe won’t stop a single abortion, in-and-of itself. Roe just guarantees a woman’s right to it. When that becomes overturned, it’s not the same thing as making abortion illegal.

There will need to be additional laws passed to do that.

While that may succeed in the southern US, I wouldn’t hold my breath nation-wide. 90% of dems favor abortion, and so do over 30% of republicans.

If abortion becomes illegal in your state, it will probably mean that you’ll need to drive an additional few hours to have one if you live in the southern US.

Oh and you know what Roe v. Wade is about? Right to privacy. Look it up and get informed. A government big enough to prevent abortion is big enough to demand abortion.

I’m not an enemy of forced sterilization in many cases; which is related in the Catholic mind.

 

[Vonsalza]

Good luck. While I do not support convenient abortions, what options are you willing to provide if or ever abortion becomes illegal again?

• Are you willing to support poor women who can’t properly care for the baby, especially if it means working or not?
• How are you holding the men responsible?
• How would you actually police this kind of thing? It will continue underground no matter what you will try and likely under much cruder and unsanitary conditions.
• Are you willing to adopt or foster these children?

I’m afraid most of the pro-life movement only has has their eyes on abortion and no one seems to be able to propose answers to the above? We don’t live in a world prior to Roe vs Wade. Women where shamed and shunned and were the ones left holding the baby in most cases.

Truth. (10 char)

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

But if you are arguing for your particular religious values and tenants to be the legal law of the land for everyone else to abide by, then no, sorry, that’s not a valid argument.

Why not? Why should someone’s secular views be allowed to be enforced as law but not religious views?

 

[Vonsalza]

First amendment of the Constitution of the United States;

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

So follow whatever religion you want. You just can’t make other people do it.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

Unless we got enough people together and repealed the 1st Amendment to read “congress shall pass no law in violation of Catholic doctrine and the Catholic Church will receive preferential treatment in the eyes of the US Government”

 

[TheLittleLady]

If abortion becomes illegal in your state,

And there will likely be the standard Republican loopholes. As long as you have a medical professional to sign off that your fetus has abnormalities, that you will be physically, emotionally or mentally harmed, that you did not consent to the sex, etc. you will be able to have your abortion.

 

[PJH_74]

If abortion rates would really stay the same legal or not then we would not see fertility rates increase and maternal mortality decrease. As you said, backyard abortions are unsafe and would lead to an increase in maternal mortality, thus a decrease is odd. Fertility rate also speaks for itself. Sorry if I came off as aggressive by the way.

I wasn’t offended, don’t worry. The thing is legal abortions have more than halved in the last 40 years, so I’m a little confused by the assertion that they are level. I’m not quite sure how someone goes around appropriately and accurately figuring out if a woman is fertile or not. As for maternal mortality, are we talking about rates or numbers? There’s a big difference. That said, people are having less babies and of course medical techniques have been improving. So statistically you have less opportunities and likely improving odds.

 

[Dhc8_Type]

Kavanaugh may not get confirmed based on his financial disclosures. He owes more to credit card companies then he’s worth.