How Quickly Should We Overturn Roe?

[Augustinian]

Kavanaugh may not get confirmed based on his financial disclosures. He owes more to credit card companies then he’s worth.

A lot of people owe a lot of money on their credit cards. I can’t see this as a reason for any senator to vote against him.

 

[Augustinian]

And there will likely be the standard Republican loopholes

Regardless of what political party controls a state house, there are likely to be exceptions of different kinds in any new abortion laws that are passed.

A reversal of Roe doesn’t mean the Pro Life movement is over, by any stretch of the word.

But that doesn’t mean that its all futile and people shouldn’t do anything.

 

[PJH_74]

A lot of people owe a lot of money on their credit cards. I can’t see this as a reason for any senator to vote against him.

I’m not quite sure on this one other than to say he’d be less sway able or much more importantly not have the appearance of so. We are right however in demanding the most stringent levels of scrutiny out of nominees due to the level of power we are giving them for life. It’s interesting to note that he’d actually be by far the poorest justice on the court.

 

[on_the_hill]

Kavanaugh may not get confirmed based on his financial disclosures. He owes more to credit card companies then he’s worth.

Maybe Trump can have a lawyer use an offshore bank to wire transfer money to the credit card companies as payment to have an insider hack into accounts to wipe out Kavanaugh’s debt (along with lots of other people’s, so as to cover their tracks). Then, Trump can claim the Russians had nothing to do with it (which, of course, would be true in this case), which will immediately cause Congress to launch an investigation into an alleged Trump/Russia money laundering scheme that doesn’t exist.

In the meantime, while everyone is distracted, Kavanaugh gets appointed. Problem solved.

 

[PJH_74]

Regardless of what political party controls a state house, there are likely to be exceptions of different kinds in any new abortion laws that are passed.

A reversal of Roe doesn’t mean the Pro Life movement is over, by any stretch of the word.

But that doesn’t mean that its all futile and people shouldn’t do anything.

Agreed…but what are the more detailed proposals? It seems to me that many Pro-lifers have little real thoughts, plans, or are willing to do something about it.

 

[on_the_hill]

Oh, and RvW won’t be overturned regardless of Kavanaugh’s appointment.

I skimmed an article about the hugely successful and widely unknown cabal of conservative Catholics who have been manipulating federal court appointments for decades. Supposedly they were behind the appointments of all the Catholics on the Court. The Secrets of Leonard Leo, the Man Behind Trump’s Supreme Court Pick

And I have to say, I question their success with that. Remind me: Which SCOTUS decisions over the past 30 years have fallen on the side of Catholicism?

 

[Damian]

Because the secular process allows everyone to the table and you have to argue your point from a reference point that everyone has access to, Human Well-Being. If your particular book club wants to argue why you want the legal system of the planet where your favorite superhero comes from because you want to emulate that story, that is not a reference point that everyone at the table universally can use as an agreed upon reference point. I can’t go knock on the White House door and demand that everyone have to act a certain way or ban a certain freedom on days that I wear a Green Lantern ring because on the planet where the Green Lantern ring bearers walk around they do that there. You have to argue your point from a reference point that everyone has access to and accepts. That is why you can’t argue from the point of the bible, koran, or the green lantern comic series. You have to argue from the point of universal Human Well-Being.

Your benign cultural practices are fine for your culture, not for everyone else. Also your non-benign cultural practices will be outlawed as well regardless of religious freedom excuse. For instance, you can not deny medical aid to anyone other than yourself for religious reasons, you can not religiously brand anyone else but yourself, you can not neglect anyone else other than yourself.

 

[phil19034]

Here’s the question: Is it best to overturn Roe v Wade all at once, or to make piecemeal progress over time? I ask because with Kavanaugh’s pending confirmation hearings to SCOTUS (US Supreme Court), there is much discussion about the potential ability to overturn Roe outright. So, if the court has the ability to overturn Roe completely, should it?

It really depends… There has to be a court case that properly challenges it. And that is not as easy as it sounds.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

For now. Just wait until I gather my legions and overthrow secular democracy and replace it with a good old fashioned Catholic monarchy.

 

[Damian]

Hahaha love it, “THIS IS CATHOLICISM!” Picturing Leonidas as a bare chested Pope with the hat and sandals.

 

[joeybaggz]

Haven’t read all the posts but IMO, Roe v. Wade will not be overturned in its entirety. And even if it was, the question of abortion would simply be returned to the states. Roe/Wade is bad law because it is based on a concept that doesn’t exist in the Constitution, a right to privacy, something that Brennan inferred. Basing constitutional law on “inferences” is risky judicial business.
As to abortion being outlawed, face it, the majority of the American people believe it is the right of a rape or incest victim to seek “relief” from the condition. IMHO, the “morning after” pill is here to stay from a societal approval standpoint. And honestly, who are any of us to dictate to a rape victim, what choices she should be allowed to make based on her conscience.

 

[Ioana]

Fertility rate refers to the number of babies born, not to the actual fertility of a women (births per 1000 women). As for maternal mortality we’re talking rates, not absolute numbers. Yes indeed the rate would decrease due to better technology, but that change would take time to be seen. Also, it still doesn’t account for the fertility factor. I admit the studies aren’t perfect, but they are food for thought against the backyard abortions argument.

 

[MonteRCMS]

FB is trying to restrict discussion.

Tried to stop this:

click here google you tube birth

 

[Augustinian]

Agreed…but what are the more detailed proposals? It seems to me that many Pro-lifers have little real thoughts, plans, or are willing to do something about it.

As a strategy , its sort of pointless to come up with detailed proposals until the matter looks like its going to resolve.

Disagreements with the details will make it a lot harder to chisel together a sufficient plurality to get anything at all done.

Or even keep what you have together.

Further, it gives details that the anti-life people can use to attack to bring down the entire pro-life movement.

 

[PJH_74]

As a strategy , its sort of pointless to come up with detailed proposals until the matter looks like its going to resolve.

Disagreements with the details will make it a lot harder to chisel together a sufficient plurality to get anything at all done.

Or even keep what you have together.

Further, it gives details that the anti-life people can use to attack to bring down the entire pro-life movement.

I think that is very short sighted. One a reasonable plan that covers the points able will likely bring people more on board. I’ll be honest it’s hard for me to jump on the pro-life bandwagon because of this. Two, if you aren’t thinking the impact though you are opening yourself more to the type of counter suit that brought us to where we stand. I also frankly think some people will never care because of their attitudes toward certain classes of people.

 

[Vonsalza]

Augustinian:

As a strategy , its sort of pointless to come up with detailed proposals until the matter looks like its going to resolve.

Disagreements with the details will make it a lot harder to chisel together a sufficient plurality to get anything at all done.

Or even keep what you have together.

Further, it gives details that the anti-life people can use to attack to bring down the entire pro-life movement.

I think that is very short sighted.

You can say that again. They don’t need to wait…

until the matter looks like its going to resolve.

That “matter” is here. Now. NOW. And has been for all human history.

 

[phil19034]

you want a real interesting look in how the Roe opinion developed, you should read The Brethren by Bob Woodward. It will confirm that Roe was the definition of judicial legislation. Justice Brennan from the get go had

We have the Republicans to thank for the Roe v. Wade decision in the first place. Who is to think this would make things any different?

Well, we really have libertarians to thank. The Republican Party is no longer controlled by the libertarians - most of them jumped over to the Democratic Party.

HOWEVER, libertarians are slowing starting to gain power again in the Republican Party.

 

[phil19034]

TheLittleLady:

The laws will then simply revert to the states.

Depends on how sweeping the decision is, and on what basis it is overturned.

An overturning of Roe doesn’t necessarily mean returning to the pre-Roe status quo.

True. One ides is whether it can be argued that unborn children can be protected under the 14th Amendment.

Some people believe they can make that argument.

 

[joaquinvedder]

I don’t get you abortion nuts. I say it with all due respect, but it’s just hard to grasp why you so desperately feel the need to overturn a law that was ruled on decades ago. I have a personal pro life stance, but that doesn’t mean I can tell other people what they can do with their bodies. And the science is hard to deny on this issue. I am fine with 1st trimester, but late in the pregnancy, I don’t condone, unless it’s a life of the mother type of circumstance.

And btw I’ve heard a few people on here saying, “we don’t give the babies a choice” or something like that. Well, they don’t have the cognitive ability to make a choice. I don’t remember being born and most likely non of you do either.

 

[TheLittleLady]

At the same time, the other side of that coin is then can mom be charged with child abuse if she has a glass of wine when pregnant? What if she refuses to take her pre-natal vitamins? Refuses to consent to a C-section or to an induction? So many nuances.