How radical is Pope Francis really?

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ABC NEWS AUSTRALIA:

"Since his ascension in 2013, Pope Francis has become a lightning rod for criticism and controversy, with conservatives faulting his pronouncements on homosexuality, income disparity and the environment.

He has openly criticised the Vatican for its ‘pathology of power’, its careerism and ‘spiritual narcissism’.

Francis put noses out of joint with attempts to fill key Vatican positions with moderates. He’s criticised the Curia for, among other things, its ‘theatrical severity and sterile pessimism’.

They call Francis a radical because he deplores the sequestration of great wealth for a rich few and deprivation of the many poor. But Francis is a moderate. Jesus was the radical.

Ever since he was elected as Pope, Francis has set an agenda for the Church. His comments on gays in the Church (‘Who am I to judge?’) , his brokering of the relationship between Cuba and America, his commitment to ending poverty and income inequality, and his forthcoming encyclical on the environment which will acknowledge climate change, have raised eyebrows and generated strong reactions among conservative pundits and clergy.

His comments regarding ‘responsible parenting’ have been seen by some as the beginning of a discussion about birth control.

After his comments on not judging homosexuals, commentator Michael Brendan Doughtery wrote in The Week that Catholics must learn to resist popes and that the duty of believers is ‘not just to rebuke and correct those in authority … but to throw rotting cabbages at them or make them miserable’.

Does all this really make him a radical, though?

It depends on who you ask. ‘In doctrinal matters Francis is no radical, no reformer. He is strongly pro-life and an ardent supporter of traditional family values,’ writes Eamon Duffy in The New York Review of Books.

Duffy points out that Francis opposed same sex marriage bills in Argentina, but at the same time supported civil unions.

Moreover, he has made few strides on the issue of the ordination of women.

Yet his utterances seem to send conservatives into an apoplexy.

When Francis denounced trickle-down economics as ‘crude and naive’, Paul Ryan, a presidential hopeful and Mitt Romney’s former running mate said, ‘The guy is from Argentina—they haven’t had real capitalism.’

America’s Heritage Foundation has accused him of backing ‘a modern, pagan, green religion’ in his environmental encyclical. The encyclical is not due for public release until September, so how this assessment was made remains a mystery.

In Crisis magazine, Catholic writer Rachel Lu argued that when Francis highlights the need for environment stewardship, it smacks of ‘intellectual faddism’.

In September Francis is due to visit the US and he may be asked to address Congress. John Carr from Georgetown University argues that such an address would make both sides uncomfortable. He points out that while Republicans dismiss Francis’ comments about income inequality as ‘socialist’, Democrats have not addressed poverty in any meaningful way either.

British Labor MP Maurice Glassman, writing in the New Statesman, agrees: ‘It is not just that many people like the look of Pope Francis, it is also that what he says about the destructive value of free markets, etc, is popular. It is not articulated by any mainstream political party in Europe, let alone Britain.’

‘He defies the orthodoxies of left and right in the name of common-good policies in which there is an active reconciliation between estranged interests, including class interests.’

Garry Wills, one of America’s most important historians and author of The Future of the Catholic Church with Pope Francis, believes that the supposedly radical Pope is merely a good Christian and those criticising him would do well to remember the Gospels.

‘They call Francis a radical because he deplores the sequestration of great wealth for a rich few and deprivation of the many poor,’ he writes. ‘But Francis is a moderate. Jesus was the radical. How hard it will be for the wealthy man to enter the kingdom of God?’

While there is a perception that the Pope is more popular among non-Catholics than Catholics, according to The New York Times, a recent Pew Poll found that 90 per cent of Catholics like what the pope is doing, and the number is even higher (95 per cent) among the most observant, mass attending Catholics.

Elizabeth Stoker Bruenig’s makes the same point in The New Republic, dismissing those who criticise Francis’ pronouncements on the environment as trendy.

‘Stewardship of the Earth as the charge of humanity is native to the Genesis account itself,’ she writes.

‘The dignity due the environment can be traced in the Catholic tradition to none other than Saint Francis of Assisi, whose name the Pope adopted.’"
abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/how-radical-is-pope-francis-really/6425006
 
After his comments on not judging homosexuals, commentator Michael Brendan Doughtery wrote in The Week that Catholics must learn to resist popes and that the duty of believers is ‘not just to rebuke and correct those in authority … but to throw rotting cabbages at them or make them miserable’.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: and if you missed that… I’m rolling my eyes. What a load of twaddle.
While there is a perception that the Pope is more popular among non-Catholics than Catholics, according to The New York Times,** a recent Pew Poll found that 90 per cent of Catholics like what the pope is doing, and the number is even higher (95 per cent) among the most observant, mass attending Catholics.**
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The short answer, he’s not.

The news media sensationalizes what he says and takes it out of context to support their immoral and irrational narratives. Pope Francis has done nothing but support and affirm the teachings of the Church. He’s not the most eloquent speaker, he’s very casual in what he says because he is always speaking from a point of faith and understanding of the gospels. The media, which is pretty much -never- speaking from a point of faith or understanding reads what they want into what he says and report their misunderstandings / misrepresentations as fact. Sometimes this is the result of simple ignorance, other times I can see no explanation beyond maliciousness.
 
The sad truth of the matter is that almost everyone has an agenda and they shamelessly exploit his words for their own gain.
Indeed. Oh well, Christ certainly didn’t promise us an easy time of things. Not to sound like I wish ill on anyone, but they’ll get their comeuppance in the end.
 
Also remember that folks who are STILL smarting over the reforms of Vatican II also feed this rumor mill.
Francis is Pastoral, makes himself available (so he can instruct and admonish when necessary) and all about efficiency, kindness, and openness to people.
With that you get folks who can’t “hear” his message because they are already ingrained with another, conflicting message.
If you have no idea what the Catholic church teaches on a given subject, no surprise you don’t get his context.
That’s the way the secular world sees him, and then people who ought to know better about the Vicar of Christ get all wound up.
Let us pray for eyes to be opened, and ears open to hearing the truth.
God bless him.
 
In reality, Pope Francis’s theological and social teachings are very similar to Benedict’s- but that’s not what the media will tell you.
 
The short answer, he’s not.

The news media sensationalizes what he says and takes it out of context to support their immoral and irrational narratives. Pope Francis has done nothing but support and affirm the teachings of the Church. He’s not the most eloquent speaker, he’s very casual in what he says because he is always speaking from a point of faith and understanding of the gospels. The media, which is pretty much -never- speaking from a point of faith or understanding reads what they want into what he says and report their misunderstandings / misrepresentations as fact. Sometimes this is the result of simple ignorance, other times I can see no explanation beyond maliciousness.
The sad truth of the matter is that almost everyone has an agenda and they shamelessly exploit his words for their own gain.
I agree with both of you. Pope Francis is not radical, but he is a little, shall we say, a little discombobulated, and that makes it easy for media-types with agendas to glom onto something that he says and twist it around to make it say what they want to think that he said. I seriously doubt – SERIOUSLY doubt that he is going to make all the volte-face changes that certain circles would like for him to make.
 
I think he is Pope to shake us up a bit. People seem very much in their own ruts: the liberal rut, the anti–V2 rut, the ruts of focus on one area of teaching to the neglect of others.

Christ shook people up too. He shook up those who were overly concerned with external rules and those who relied overmuch on their own minds, but he also shook up the poor: He didn’t let them slide on sin just because they were poor.

I like this about him, but I also see that what he says is kind of like Christ’s parables: not all will understand.
 
I think he is Pope to shake us up a bit. People seem very much in their own ruts: the liberal rut, the anti–V2 rut, the ruts of focus on one area of teaching to the neglect of others.

Christ shook people up too. He shook up those who were overly concerned with external rules and those who relied overmuch on their own minds, but he also shook up the poor: He didn’t let them slide on sin just because they were poor.

I like this about him, but I also see that what he says is kind of like Christ’s parables: not all will understand.
“Comfort the afflicted, and afflict the comfortable.” 😃
 
The short answer, he’s not.

The news media sensationalizes what he says and takes it out of context to support their immoral and irrational narratives. Pope Francis has done nothing but support and affirm the teachings of the Church. He’s not the most eloquent speaker, he’s very casual in what he says because he is always speaking from a point of faith and understanding of the gospels. The media, which is pretty much -never- speaking from a point of faith or understanding reads what they want into what he says and report their misunderstandings / misrepresentations as fact. Sometimes this is the result of simple ignorance, other times I can see no explanation beyond maliciousness.
I dont agree that this is the case. If it were, Pope Francis would have ceased giving them ammunition by this point, but he hasnt. In fact he clarified that the ideas the media reports are his own, “not what the media says I [Pope Francis] think”, i.e. No twisting of words. After that clarification, what you are describing here sounds much like conspiracy theorism.
 
Reminding some entrenched Cardinals and Bishops that living out the Gospels and Corporal Works of Mercy is their vocation and duty probably does seem radical to those who have lived in the rarified air of the Vatican.:rolleyes:
 
I dont agree that this is the case. If it were, Pope Francis would have ceased giving them ammunition by this point, but he hasnt. In fact he clarified that the ideas the media reports are his own, “not what the media says I [Pope Francis] think”, i.e. No twisting of words. After that clarification, what you are describing here sounds much like conspiracy theorism.
I believe that Pope Francis is actually using the media (without their knowledge) to evangelize. He uses the spin from the liberals to soften their hearts to the message of the Gospel, and then slowly catechizes them.

Pope Francis believes in evangelizing with love.

What lots of people forget or don’t realize is that you need to evangelize a person before you catechize them. That was part of our problem in post World War II society, and the need for the New Evangelization… we had more and more baptized Christians who were not evangelized and being Catechized. So they never understood the discipline of the Church. My father is one of the casualties of never being evangelized before being catechized. 😦

The key is for faithful Catholics to remember that the Pope is Catholic and is the true Pope, protected by the Infallibility of the Church.
 
I believe that Pope Francis is actually using the media (without their knowledge) to evangelize. He uses the spin from the liberals to soften their hearts to the message of the Gospel, and then slowly catechizes them.
I take it you didn’t read what I wrote.

What spin? Pope Francis has said there is no spin. 🤷
 
My advice, if you are confused about anything his Holiness says, listen to his words in it’s entirety, compare it to the Catechism of the Church, the Bible and the pronouncements of his predecessors, and you will find he is not as “radical” as you really think.

For example, on the issue of homosexuals, the Pope said that if a homosexual person WANTS TO KNOW CHRIST (emphasized because this is usually omitted by the media) he wouldn’t judge. No Pope has ever said that ANY person who wants to become closer to God should be turned away, regardless of the sins they may have committed. Plus, if a homosexual person wants to “know Christ” it can also imply they desire to change their lives, i.e abstain from immoral acts and lead a life of chastity and celibacy.

If a proper study is made of Pope Francis’s theology and writings on faith issues, it turns out that fundamentally he doesn’t really differ from Pope St John Paul II or Pope Benedict XVI.
 
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: and if you missed that… I’m rolling my eyes. What a load of twaddle.

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An observant Catholic would and should “like” what any Pope is doing in the Church as they are well, the Pope.

I see too much “preference” given to this or that Pope. All of our Popes for the last 150 years at least, have been holy men- leading the Church exactly where she needs to be.

It’s not that complicated.
 
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