How Relevant Is Our Lady Of Fatima Today ?

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My apologies for the lack of a reference here, but I definitely recall reading in biographies of St. Maximilian Kolbe that he predicted that some day, the Immaculata would be seen atop the Kremlin.

That would be a very good indication of what God intends to effect through the conversion of Russia. Till we see that day, the rosary crusade must keep growing.
 
originally posted by chris1888:
*The Moscow Patriarch Alexei II could not be more anti-Catholic if he tried and any attempt at making inroads or setting up Catholic parishes are ferciously resisted and labelled proselytism. *

Not all patriarchs live forever.
 
In case anyone got the wrong idea, I was asking the question rhetorically. I believe OLF is very relevant, but I know that those who agree are in a definite minority. And while I agree the Orthodox Church is schismatic, I firmly believe “Russia’s errors” are very clearly the Marxist-Leninist idealogy. Their may be some serious errors with Orthodox theology, but it’s still infinitely better than being Christ hating Communists, and at the same time we should remember how far are own nation’s morals have declined.
Yes “Russia’s errors” are the errors of communism. This also would probably include abortion (first legalized in Russia) to name one of the worst evils that has spread throughout the world. But I believe that when Our Lady said conversion, she meant complete conversion to the Catholic faith, and as everyone can see, Russia isn’t even a strong Orthodox country anymore. Until the conversion of the poor nation, it will continue to be the instrument of chastisement for the world. Oremus!
 
Yes “Russia’s errors” are the errors of communism. **This also would probably include abortion (first legalized in Russia) **to name one of the worst evils that has spread throughout the world. But I believe that when Our Lady said conversion, she meant complete conversion to the Catholic faith, and as everyone can see, Russia isn’t even a strong Orthodox country anymore. Until the conversion of the poor nation, it will continue to be the instrument of chastisement for the world. Oremus!
I’m no fan of Russia, but you can’t blame this one on them. Abortion has been legal off and on in different places at different times all through history. This is one evil the Russians didn’t start.
 
Under Vladimir Lenin, the Soviet Union legalized all abortions in 1920, but this was fully reversed in 1936 by Joseph Stalin in order to increase population growth. Iceland was the first Western country to legalize therapeutic abortion under limited circumstances, doing so in 1935, and the earliest country to do so without recriminalizing it later. Only a handful of countries – mostly in Scandinavia —decriminalized abortion before Britain did so in 1967. Other countries soon followed, including Canada (1969), the United States (1973 in most states, pursuant to the federal Supreme Court decision which legalized abortion nationwide), France (1975), Austria (1975),New Zealand (1977), Italy (1978) and the Netherlands (1980). However, these countries vary greatly in the circumstances under which abortion is permitted. In 1975, the West German Supreme Court struck down a law legalizing abortion, holding that they contradict the constitution’s human rights guarantees. After Germany’s reunification, despite the legal status of abortion in the former East Germany, a compromise was reached which deemed most abortions illegal but does not penalize it under certain circumstances.
 
When Our Lady showed the three children a Vision of Hell, she told them “more people go there for sins of the Flesh than anything else”. Russia has spread its errors (there’s rampant atheism and secularism) and we have our children indoctrinated with graphic sexual images in a book promoted by Planned Parenthood. Its essential that we remember her message in this day and age.
 
Under Vladimir Lenin, the Soviet Union legalized all abortions in 1920, but this was fully reversed in 1936 by Joseph Stalin in order to increase population growth. Iceland was the first Western country to legalize therapeutic abortion under limited circumstances, doing so in 1935, and the earliest country to do so without recriminalizing it later. Only a handful of countries – mostly in Scandinavia —decriminalized abortion before Britain did so in 1967. Other countries soon followed, including Canada (1969), the United States (1973 in most states, pursuant to the federal Supreme Court decision which legalized abortion nationwide), France (1975), Austria (1975),New Zealand (1977), Italy (1978) and the Netherlands (1980). However, these countries vary greatly in the circumstances under which abortion is permitted. In 1975, the West German Supreme Court struck down a law legalizing abortion, holding that they contradict the constitution’s human rights guarantees. After Germany’s reunification, despite the legal status of abortion in the former East Germany, a compromise was reached which deemed most abortions illegal but does not penalize it under certain circumstances.
OK, if we are limiting ourselves to Western nations in the twentieth century Russia and the other communist countries have clearly been the leaders. But abortion began at least as far back as ancient Egypt and as been sometimes legal and sometimes illegal throughout time. Lack of charity and love for the innocent is not a new development, it has pained us from the beginning.
 
Barnabas: “You shall not kill either the fetus by abortion or the new born” (Letter of Barnabas, circa 125)
Anon: An unknown author writing circa 135 CE in The Apocalypse of Peter: “I saw a gorge in which the discharge and excrement of the tortured ran down and became like a lake. There sat women, and the discharge came up to their throats; and opposite them sat many children, who were born prematurely, weeping. And from them went forth rays of fire and smote the women on the eyes. These were those who produced children outside of marriage, and who procured abortions.”
"Those who slew the unborn children will be tortured forever, for God wills it to so."
 
St. Basil the Great (circa 330 - 379 CE): “She who has deliberately destroyed a fetus has to pay the penalty of murder…here it is not only the child to be born that is vindicated, but also the woman herself who made an attempt against her own life, because usually the women die in such attempts. Furthermore, added to this is the destruction of the child, another murder… Moreover, those, too, who give drugs causing abortion are deliberate murderers themselves, as well as those receiving the poison which kills the fetus.” Letter 188:2
St. Ambrose: (339 to 397 CE) “The poor expose their children, the rich kill the fruit of their own bodies in the womb, lest their property be divided up, and they destroy their own children in the womb with murderous poisons. and before life has been passed on, it is annihilated.” 6
St. John Chrysostom (circa 340 - 407 CE): “Why sow where the ground makes it its care to destroy the fruit? Where there are many efforts at abortion? Where there is murder before the birth? For you do not even let the harlot remain a mere harlot, but make her a murderer also. You see how drunkenness leads to whoredom, whoredom to adultery, adultery to murder; or rather something even worse than murder. For I have no real name to give it, since it does not destroy the thing born but prevents its being born. Why then do you abuse the gift of God and fight with His laws, and follow after what is a curse as if a blessing, and make the place of procreation a chamber for murder, and arm the woman that was given for childbearing unto slaughter?” Homily 24 on Romans
St. Jerome (circa 342-420 CE): “They drink potions to ensure sterility and are guilty of murdering a human being not yet conceived. Some, when they learn that they are with child through sin, practice abortion by the use of drugs. Frequently they die themselves and are brought before the rulers of the lower world guilty of three crimes: suicide, adultery against Christ, and murder of an unborn child.” Letter 22:13
Tertullian circa 160-240 CE: “For us [Christians] we may not destroy even the fetus in the womb, while as yet the human being derives blood from other parts of the body for its sustenance. To hinder a birth is merely a speedier man-killing; nor does it matter when you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to birth. That is a man which is going to be one: you have the fruit already in the seed.” Apology 9:6
“They [John and Jesus] were both alive while still in the womb. Elizabeth rejoiced as the infant leaped in her womb; Mary glorifies the Lord because Christ within inspired her. Each mother recognizes her child and is known by her child who is alive, being not merely souls but also spirits.” De A ninta 26:4

Statements by groups:

The Didache (also known as “The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles”) dates from the first half of the second century CE. It states: “Thou shalt not murder a child by abortion.” (2:2) It also says that “The Way of Death is filled with people who are…murderers of children and abortionists of God’s creatures.” (5:1-2)
The Synod of Elvira, held in Spain in 306 CE: “If a woman becomes pregnant by committing adultery, while her husband is absent, and after the act she destroys the child, it is proper to keep her from communion until death, because she has doubled her crime.” Canon 63.
The Synod of Ancyra, held in 314 CE, condemned abortion. The penalty was 10 years of penance
The Apostolic Constitutions (circa 380 CE) allowed abortion if it was done early enough in pregnancy. But it condemned abortion if the fetus was of human shape. “Thou shalt not slay the child by causing abortion, nor kill that which is begotten. For everything that is shaped, and his received a soul from God, if slain, it shall be avenged, as being unjustly destroyed.” 7:3:15 This document claimed to have been written by the apostles. However, it was actually written late in the 4th century CE at about the time that Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire and serious oppression of Paganism started.
 
Barnabas: “You shall not kill either the fetus by abortion or the new born” (Letter of Barnabas, circa 125)
Anon: An unknown author writing circa 135 CE in The Apocalypse of Peter: “I saw a gorge in which the discharge and excrement of the tortured ran down and became like a lake. There sat women, and the discharge came up to their throats; and opposite them sat many children, who were born prematurely, weeping. And from them went forth rays of fire and smote the women on the eyes. These were those who produced children outside of marriage, and who procured abortions.”
“Those who slew the unborn children will be tortured forever, for God wills it to so.”

I assume these quotes and those in the next post are aimed at me? Look, I am not saying that the Church has not always forbidden abortion or that abortion has not always been wrong. I am saying that Russia is not the first place that people were mislead or unloving enough to allow it. That is simply true. It was legal in some ancient societies, and allowed in others, just like other sinful actions. Why is it important to place this on Russia? Russia has been the source of many troubles, but the Russians were not the first to countenance abortion.
 
I assume these quotes and those in the next post are aimed at me? Look, I am not saying that the Church has not always forbidden abortion or that abortion has not always been wrong. I am saying that Russia is not the first place that people were mislead or unloving enough to allow it. That is simply true. It was legal in some ancient societies, and allowed in others, just like other sinful actions. Why is it important to place this on Russia? Russia has been the source of many troubles, but the Russians were not the first to countenance abortion.
I agree, and now that Portugal, the home country of Fatima also allows abortions what are we to make of this? I read somewhere once that 40 million Americans have been aborted since Roe.

That grave sin is a worldwide pandemic not specific to Russia.
*
Michael*
 
I agree, and now that Portugal, the home country of Fatima also allows abortions what are we to make of this? I read somewhere once that 40 million Americans have been aborted since Roe.

That grave sin is a worldwide pandemic not specific to Russia.
*
Michael*
The Vatican said that now that Portugal has allowed abortion and that the Faith is being eroded there, the “era of Fatima” appears to be over, although what Our Lady said about the errors of Communism still has affected the world.
 
Just before the 4th vision at Fatima in August, Jacinta Marto had a vision of a Pope in a large house, on his knees, crying before a table, while outside a large mob were throwing stones, cursing and using foul language. Does anyone remember what happened when John Paul II visited Utrecht in the Netherlands in May 1985 ?
 
Just before the 4th vision at Fatima in August, Jacinta Marto had a vision of a Pope in a large house, on his knees, crying before a table, while outside a large mob were throwing stones, cursing and using foul language. Does anyone remember what happened when John Paul II visited Utrecht in the Netherlands in May 1985 ?
Is THAT what happened in Utrecht??
 
A few thousand communists, anarchists, radical feminists and homosexual rights supporters tried to attack the Pope when he came to Utrecht. One commentator called it the most disasterous visit to a country by a Pope in the Church’s history.
 
I assume these quotes and those in the next post are aimed at me? Look, I am not saying that the Church has not always forbidden abortion or that abortion has not always been wrong. I am saying that Russia is not the first place that people were mislead or unloving enough to allow it. That is simply true. It was legal in some ancient societies, and allowed in others, just like other sinful actions. Why is it important to place this on Russia? Russia has been the source of many troubles, but the Russians were not the first to countenance abortion.
No not the first, but without a doubt the most infleuntial in world affairs at that time. More than that, Russia trumpeted athiesm to the world as a mantra that has been picked up by millions worldwide who don’t even have a clue where it came from.
 
A few thousand communists, anarchists, radical feminists and homosexual rights supporters tried to attack the Pope when he came to Utrecht. One commentator called it the most disasterous visit to a country by a Pope in the Church’s history.
**One of the ways God ‘punishes,’ as St. Paul says, is to leave them to their own foibles and perverted desires. Not only do they lose Faith through their own sins, but it is next to impossible to reclaim it again unless there is a radical call to conversion, which in itself is quite difficult. And like the apostles were told, if a town rejects you because of Me, sow your steps with salt and move on. Utrecht revealed its own disaster. **
 
I’m no fan of Russia, but you can’t blame this one on them. Abortion has been legal off and on in different places at different times all through history. This is one evil the Russians didn’t start.
I’m sorry but I’ve read that it was first legalized in Russia, but I won’t claim infalliablity on it. 🙂
 
I assume these quotes and those in the next post are aimed at me? Look, I am not saying that the Church has not always forbidden abortion or that abortion has not always been wrong. I am saying that Russia is not the first place that people were mislead or unloving enough to allow it. That is simply true. It was legal in some ancient societies, and allowed in others, just like other sinful actions. Why is it important to place this on Russia? Russia has been the source of many troubles, but the Russians were not the first to countenance abortion.
Sorry, I didn’t mean that Russia was the first country/society to ever allow abortion, I was just pointing it out for our more recent history. Regardless, it was just my opinion that abortion on demand was an error of Russia and anyone is free to disagree.
 
The Vatican said that now that Portugal has allowed abortion and that the Faith is being eroded there, the “era of Fatima” appears to be over, although what Our Lady said about the errors of Communism still has affected the world.
So if the “era of Fatima” is over because Portugal is now falling into error, then I guess it wouldn’t hurt if the Vatican finally released the remaining words of Our Lady after “In Portugal, the Dogma of the Faith will always be held, etc…”
 
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