"How Religion Increases Depression in Teens" (???)

[CharlesDarwin]

I would like to suggest that you have not done enough research, then. Have you read the apologetics of the early 18th century? There is no darkness of mood or sorrow in the proofs of God offered by Samuel Clarke or J.B. Bossuet. I was convinced that God must exist by my reason and rational mind alone. Absolutely no rituals, rites, or brainwashing took place. In fact, I didn’t own a Bible until just last week: I came to my belief in God through philosophical tracts and mathematics. So many things point to God: the existence of time, of space, of causality, and Necessity. These things make me feel joyous and wondrous in my beliefs. This study, on the other hand, may just have happened to stumble upon a lot of depressed people… it isn’t uncommon in America today.

By the way, I would posit that it is sinful not to fear eternal damnation. God provides it through His judgment, so a lack of fear about eternal damnation is a lack of fear and respect for the Creator of Time and Space.

Syllogism:

All things in Time and Space have a cause (anyone who denies this is being obfuscatory)
The Universe proceeds in Time and in Space
The Universe has a cause.
Since the Universe has a cause, it cannot be cyclical, as Time and Space must have originated, necessarily, from something Timeless and Formless: eternal and infinite.

Is this logical, or is it senseless? At least tell me it makes you doubt your doubt.

I mean no harm, for you are my brother creature.

I apologise. Sometimes I find it annoying when people let their Cross get to them, but I am just the same way… God bless you!

I didn’t say only atheists were rational or that only theists were brainwashed
all i said is that most atheists are not atheists because we want to have lots of sex…were atheists because as we see it…atheism makes more sense and aligns more precisely with reality

i didnt say some christians could not say the same thing

All things in Time and Space have a cause (anyone who denies this is being obfuscatory)

All things we know of. this does not mean everything…energy for example is still up in the air

The Universe proceeds in Time and in Space

The universe proceeds in our time and space but some hypothesis suggest that many many time/space bubbles may exist in time and space

The Universe has a cause.

Proof?

Since the Universe has a cause, it cannot be cyclical, as Time and Space must have originated, necessarily, from something Timeless and Formless: eternal and infinite.

even if this is true you have no reason to assume this was a being and not simply an unknown force

 

[Bailey2]

I am addressing only the original post:

This “study” was published in the Review of Religious Research journal. This journal is not peer reviewed and therefore the methods of the study are questionable at best (see below from the journal’s website).

*The denominational researchers I consulted have pointed out that the pressures of their work do not leave them the time to write extended articles for refereed publications, nor is there the same pressure which academics experience to publish a certain number of such articles each year. Hence, it has often been difficult for the RRR to fulfill its purpose of facilitating the sharing of applied research. *

In truth, there is very little research on religion and psychology and the results put together are conflicting both for children and teens and adults for that matter. The author’s hypothesis about religious values vs secular values is a good one but it would need more research to say that with a bit more certainty. My guess is that statement is based on the observations of immigrant cultures over the years from various countries of origin.

Communication between parent and child and styles of parenting have more to say about depression than religion. And here is a study to counterbalance the one the original poster cited:
livescience.com/culture/090109-kids-spirituality.html

Don’t get too upset over these “studies.” When there are twenty or so of them saying the same thing then worry about it, but only if they are peer reviewed! Religious values are a good thing.

 

[GloriousOrder]

Proof?

What do you mean by ‘proof’? A logical argument is based on thought, not on proof. Do I have to prove to you that, by applying force to a chair, it will fall over? Do I have to prove that the Sun comes up in the East and sets in the West, setting Time for us? The Universe so completely exists in time and space that it follows the same laws of cause and effect that the chair and the Sun follow. How can I prove things which everyone knows to be true?

even if this is true you have no reason to assume this was a being and not simply an unknown force

What do you mean? The Universe itself is an unknown force for most people , but (as I think I’ve established) it must have a higher origin than itself. A balloon may be able to expand, but a person must wrap the rubbers together to make a balloon, and then blow into it. The Universe cannot just exist because of an “unknown force”, because that higher, unknown force would be just as mindless as the Universe, and would thus be subject to space and time too. If something is subject to anything else, it cannot be called the end-point: the end-point, the Necessary Being, must exist by it’s own existence, and not be contingent on anything else.

The fact that God exists, and that this can be shown through a little hope and logic, gives me more happiness than anything. I think religious youth who are depressed have been watching too much Dawkins/Hitchens, and probably aren’t hearing any apologetics for their “beliefs”.

 

[CharlesDarwin]

What do you mean by ‘proof’? A logical argument is based on thought, not on proof. Do I have to prove to you that, by applying force to a chair, it will fall over? Do I have to prove that the Sun comes up in the East and sets in the West, setting Time for us? The Universe so completely exists in time and space that it follows the same laws of cause and effect that the chair and the Sun follow. How can I prove things which everyone knows to be true?

What do you mean? The Universe itself is an unknown force for most people , but (as I think I’ve established) it must have a higher origin than itself. A balloon may be able to expand, but a person must wrap the rubbers together to make a balloon, and then blow into it. The Universe cannot just exist because of an “unknown force”, because that higher, unknown force would be just as mindless as the Universe, and would thus be subject to space and time too. If something is subject to anything else, it cannot be called the end-point: the end-point, the Necessary Being, must exist by it’s own existence, and not be contingent on anything else.

The fact that God exists, and that this can be shown through a little hope and logic, gives me more happiness than anything. I think religious youth who are depressed have been watching too much Dawkins/Hitchens, and probably aren’t hearing any apologetics for their “beliefs”.

Everything on a macro scale seems to us to follow a cause and effect line

but we are not dealing with the macro world when we discuss the first moments of our universe. in several equations in QM, which predict things so well that if they are not true would require an almost complete reworking of our understandings of the physics…require that the effect come before the cause…or that they happen simultaneously, and even more accurate ones have done away with the concept of time altogether

why must the end point be a being? you solve the problem of how something as complex as our universe comes to exist by invoking an even more complex being but make no attempt to explain why this being is immortal or how an a-temporal being can interact on our temporal level with out resorting to magic

i think depressed kids have a chemical imbalance in their brains that is best solved by anti depressants and biofeedback exercises…not by telling them they are in risk of hell fire for being who they are

 

[wisdomseeker]

I came across this article about how religion (Catholic, christian, or otherwise) psychologically affects teens. I’m just quoting a few passeges but heres the link to the whole article: behavioural-psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_religion_increases_depression_in_teens

The article isn’t necessarily anit-religion, but some parts stood out.

The study actually found that…

…however…

…and they discovered that the happiest teens were
Petts provided this reason for why religion may incline teens to depression:

Thats the part I think is sad…its backwards. The article makes it sound like the “mores of mainstrem culture” are more important than “religious values”. In this day and age I guess that shouldnt suprise me…but I think that mainstream culture is more to blame than religion.

and just who are these researchers though? it is always good to know their background first, to know their motivation.

 

[Rocky]

Or maybe because after examining the world around us and our own beliefs we really just find the evidence for the existence of gods lacking and therefor chose to live our life as we see fit rather than how religious zealots of centuries ago thought we should live?

I think some people say they are atheists for a short time because they become angry with the god they believed in but in my experience these people rarely stay “atheist” for long.

the atheists who are lifelong atheists after deconversion generally are so because they have put alot of thought into it and really do just see no good reason to believe in a god so they dont.

this doesn’t mean they are bad or “sinful” people it just means that they do not feafr eternal punishment for things which really do not harm anyone but perhaps themselves

I have put in bold the part of the reply that most interests me. If the things that adolescents are doing are harmful to them (even if not to anyone else) wouldn’t this alone help to make them depressed? Trying smoke, drink, sex in their teen years - even though they know this is not going to help them achieve future success - seems quite depressing to me.

 

[estesbob]

how about i judge how happy i am and you judge how happy you are? sound good?

remember what happens when one makes ASSumptions

I’m glad you believe in the Assumption. That’s a great step towards coming home.

 

[CharlesDarwin]

I have put in bold the part of the reply that most interests me. If the things that adolescents are doing are harmful to them (even if not to anyone else) wouldn’t this alone help to make them depressed? Trying smoke, drink, sex in their teen years - even though they know this is not going to help them achieve future success - seems quite depressing to me.

not that this was my point, of course atheists do things that increase their own depression…just like many christians do things that increase their own depression, and even if these things were a 100% indicator of not having success in the future, it is not anyone’s business except the parent’s and the kids

as far as things being detrimental to a person’s future success all in moderation, religion in excess can be harmful to a person’s future success. teen pregnancy rates are highest in states with high rates of religiosity,and how about the amish, the huderites, the FLDS etc…how successful do those kids turn out to be?

but again my point in the quoted post was not to say atheists are not just as depressed as everyone else, but rather to counter the claim that people are only atheist so they can have lots of sex and do drugs

 

[CharlesDarwin]

I’m glad you believe in the Assumption. That’s a great step towards coming home.

i do hope you are being disingenuous

 

[distracted]

I came across this article about how religion (Catholic, christian, or otherwise) psychologically affects teens. I’m just quoting a few passeges but heres the link to the whole article: behavioural-psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_religion_increases_depression_in_teens

The article isn’t necessarily anit-religion, but some parts stood out.

The study actually found that…

…however…

…and they discovered that the happiest teens were

Petts provided this reason for why religion may incline teens to depression:

Thats the part I think is sad…its backwards. The article makes it sound like the “mores of mainstrem culture” are more important than “religious values”. In this day and age I guess that shouldnt suprise me…but I think that mainstream culture is more to blame than religion.

i suffer depression but it isn’t the DEEP … abysmal depression i once experienced when outside the the Church… being lost is NOT fun… being confused and feeling your life is… empty and not knowing why … not fun…

I am not delirously happy after having come back to the Church and trying to attend Mass daily… but i am not unhappy either… and certainly not all the time…

i think this article is bunk…

and if anyone has a reason (pre-existing) to be depressed it would be someone who is NOT a teen… meaning not exactly a spring chicken…

probably some secular reporter/writer… who wrote this

 

[Rocky]

not that this was my point, of course atheists do things that increase their own depression…just like many christians do things that increase their own depression, and even if these things were a 100% indicator of not having success in the future, it is not anyone’s business except the parent’s and the kids

as far as things being detrimental to a person’s future success all in moderation, religion in excess can be harmful to a person’s future success. teen pregnancy rates are highest in states with high rates of religiosity,and how about the amish, the huderites, the FLDS etc…how successful do those kids turn out to be?

but again my point in the quoted post was not to say atheists are not just as depressed as everyone else, but rather to counter the claim that people are only atheist so they can have lots of sex and do drugs

I would think by the Amish, Huderite, etc. communities’ standards, since most of the children continue in their communities, that the children are considered very successful.

 

[Justin1982]

teen pregnancy rates are highest in states with high rates of religiosity

Seems like quite the selective argument when you don’t look at the fact that these same “high religiosity states” are the same states with far lower teenage abortions, which is quite opposite of the liberal states of less “religiosity”. Christians generally see value in the new life created regardless of the age of the person bearing the child. Should a Christian teen be having sex in the first place? Not if they value God’s Word, but we are all sinners so nobody is perfect.

 

[CharlesDarwin]

I would think by the Amish, Huderite, etc. communities’ standards, since most of the children continue in their communities, that the children are considered very successful.

my point exactly…the standard at which they live is still far less than even the least successful person outside their communities. their self imposed religiously motivated hermit lifestyle keeps their entire community down.

“thats the way they chose to live”

perhaps…but then who are we to judge anyone’s way of life as successful or not successful?

just because hudderites or the amish seems quaint or cute to you/…and say a life of weekly parties with tons of binge drinking does not…does not mean the amish are more or less successful than someone who chooses that lifestyle

 

[CharlesDarwin]

Seems like quite the selective argument when you don’t look at the fact that these same “high religiosity states” are the same states with far lower teenage abortions, which is quite opposite of the liberal states of less “religiosity”. Christians generally see value in the new life created regardless of the age of the person bearing the child. Should a Christian teen be having sex in the first place? Not if they value God’s Word, but we are all sinners so nobody is perfect.

i dont beleive i said births of babies to teen mothers… i said teen pregnancies…which includes clinical abortions and live births

either way the point is moot…the point of the original post was simply that atheists on the vast majority generally are not atheists so we can have kinkier sex, but rather because we find the god argument lacking in several areas and therefor reject it

 

[Aramis]

I would agree with this studies findings I know when i stopped going to church(well when my parents stopped forcing me to go) i became a much happier more outgoing and althogether kinder person

I became a much happier, much meaner, and much more criminally inclined person. I got better when I started going to church regularly in my early 20’s.

 

[Rocky]

my point exactly…the standard at which they live is still far less than even the least successful person outside their communities. their self imposed religiously motivated hermit lifestyle keeps their entire community down.

**“thats the way they chose to live” **

perhaps…but then who are we to judge anyone’s way of life as successful or not successful?

just because hudderites or the amish seems quaint or cute to you/…and say a life of weekly parties with tons of binge drinking does not…does not mean the amish are more or less successful than someone who chooses that lifestyle

Why did you put “thats the way they chose to live” in quotes? I did not write that, although I did bold it.
Why do you think “their self-imposed religious motivated hernmit lifestyle keeps their entire community down” ?? For that matter, why do you think “the standard at which they live is still far less than even the least successful person outside their communities” ??

All of that which you yourself have written about the Amish and others is in direct contrast to your supposed belief that we are not to judge anyone’s way of life as successful or not.

But in any case, the subject is “How Religion Increases Depression in Teens” – so since you brought up the Amish, et al, do you have any research that Teens in these very religious communities are more depressed than others?

 

[Gift_from_God]

I ran back to the Catholic Church when I was fifteen. My life and attitude were just horrible back then. It was tough at first because I had to become pro-life (I am now pro-life) and try to abstain from having sex as well as no be embarrassed about being Catholic. I’m almost nineteen now and man has life ever been so awesome. Just one great thing after another.

 

[CharlesDarwin]

I became a much happier, much meaner, and much more criminally inclined person. I got better when I started going to church regularly in my early 20’s.

well there are people that even atheists are glad beleive in gods

 

[CharlesDarwin]

Why did you put “thats the way they chose to live” in quotes? I did not write that, although I did bold it.
Why do you think “their self-imposed religious motivated hernmit lifestyle keeps their entire community down” ?? For that matter, why do you think “the standard at which they live is still far less than even the least successful person outside their communities” ??

All of that which you yourself have written about the Amish and others is in direct contrast to your supposed belief that we are not to judge anyone’s way of life as successful or not.

But in any case, the subject is “How Religion Increases Depression in Teens” – so since you brought up the Amish, et al, do you have any research that Teens in these very religious communities are more depressed than others?

I put it in quotes to signify that i believed that was the next response…if i wanted to quote someone id use the quote button

why do i think the amish are kept down by their beleifs? no electricity, no modern medicine, no modern transportation etc need i continue. Now i dont care how they chose to live it doesn’t harm me…same as i really dont care how anyone lives if it doesn’t affect me. but christians care a great deal about how others live…

the post which started all this confusion said atheists are atheists so we can have lots of sex and that if anyone is more depressed its atheists because of this lifestyle

i said even though thats not true…but even if atheists had lots of sex etc that doesnt mean it makes them depressed…ie living my life as humanitarian worker would make me miserable…it doesnt mean i think these workers are depressed…but if i was…i would be…so thats why im not

similarly just because being an atheist would(or supposedly did) make you depressed…doesnt mean that everyone who is or was an atheist will be or was depressed

long story short different strokes for different folks…I was depressed and angry as a christian…i am happy and kind as an atheist…some people would be angry and depressed as atheists and happy and kind as christians

so dont ASSume that just because being “X” would make you “Y”…that “X” makes everyone “Y”

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

so dont ASSume that just because being “X” would make you “Y”…that “X” makes everyone “Y”

But isn’t that exactly what you are doing in your veiled condecension.

You have implicitly claimed that being “X”(atheist) means being “Y”(intelligent) while “X”(being a believer in God) makes everyone “Y”(dim, unenlightened, supersticious, etc.).