"How Religion Increases Depression in Teens" (???)

[benidict]

I would say…that there is a difference between happiness and joy.
I would also say…that your posts do not look like they are written by someone as happy as you claim. After all, you have specifically come to CAF to take offense at religion. Happy people, as a rule, don’t chase after something to be offended by.

…and yes, I realize that I, too, am an odd person out here, being a Mormon in a Catholic forum. However, I fully admit to being a grouchy old curmudgeon. I find that defending my belief system against inaccurate claims about it makes my mind work and gives me typing practice…and sometimes it makes me happy. Most of the time it makes me frustrated. I get HAPPY by listening to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and knitting Christmas sweaters. I get JOY from going to church, studying the scriptures and in the occasional times when I actually am doing the right thing.

You get your happiness however you get it. I think you would be happier as a theist, but then that’s because I am one. I’m biased.

hi diana. i have never thought you were grouchy! lol! and you definitely are one of my favorite Mormons. Peace and prayers for your well being and happiness

 

[dianaiad]

i do not claim to know it was NOT a being…i simply BELIEVE it far more likely to have been a blind unthinking, unplanned force…why? we know such forces exist with empirical evidence…we have no empirical evidence of any “super” natural beings so there are fewer assumptions in believing in an unplanned force than in a planning thinking acting being beyond our universe

science usually does not deal with spiritual claims…most “attacks” on religion from science involve the physical world when theists make claims on this world

You are right about that one! That’s the problem with the idea that science can’t address the spiritual things…the ‘why’ of existance. It CAN address the ‘what.’ it’s like attempting to measure air pressure with a ruler. You aren’t going to get an accurate reading either way.

I think, personally, that God gave us two ‘books,’ and we need to be reading both. The first book He wrote very personally…the universe. We read it in the rocks, the oceans and life. To the theists who get hissy fits over what we find there, I have to say…why in the world would God write lies in His own creation? If we weren’t supposed to find out the processes by which things came to be, then He wouldn’t have shown us the evidence in the first place. The second ‘book’ is scripture…His communication directly to man. That deals with the way we are supposed to relate to Him and to each other. One cannot use one ‘book’ to dismiss the other; they are companion pieces. If they ‘seem’ to contradict each other, then…wait awhile. It’ll all come together eventually. That’s MY brand of belief, anyway.

such as virgin births men flying w/o any technological aid men raising from the dead etc those are very much in science’s realm to make critical judgments on, when religion makes claims of biology, physics, medicine…science is the only tool we have to determine if these are possible.

Oh, that’s new…MOST of the time when I discuss the virgin birth, it is to point out that since men can do that (and I personally know a woman who not only was a virgin when she gave birth, she wasn’t the genetic mother, either…she bore a child for her sister and brother in law), then it is rather silly of anybody to assume that DEITY could not do it.

So your argument here is that God could NOT have accomplished this because MAN wouldn’t have been able to at the time? Isn’t that circular?

and why is it theists only say religion is outside science’s realm when science proves them wrong?

It only ‘proves them wrong’ when they make scientific claims…I would put strict biblical creationism in that category, but…not the virgin birth. In fact, in that case, I"m afraid that science has rather confirmed the possibility of such a thing being possible. There is no way, for instance, that you can prove that I do not get answers to my prayers–or that Deity did NOT set off the ‘big bang.’

say for example if we tested that holy relic that is suppose to be the transubstantiated flesh of christ,

I’m not a Catholic, but we both might want to tred carefully here…if you are talking about the eucharist, that IS strictly a religious thing. No Catholic is going to claim that the bread and wine used in it changes in any scientifically measurable way. While I do not believe in the literal transubstantiation involved there, it is a spiritual claim and firmly in the realm of miracles.

and found that it had evidence of only female genetic information ie no biological father… i can not even fathom any christian saying “well we don’t really care science cant test faith” you know just as well as I that if such an event were to occur it would be yelled from every pulpit in the world as scientific proof of jesus and transubstantiation as loud as the preists could yell it.

You have a point. However, I find it rather difficult to imagine a priest allowing a scientist to run such tests on the consecrated Host…we are talking instant excommunication here, and I DO mean ‘instant.’ As well, I do believe, as I mentioned, that Catholics don’t believe that transubstantiation CAN be scientifically measured. It’s a faith thing.

Now, if you were talking about a freeway offramp sign, properly carbon dated, that says 'Zarahemla, three miles," THEN you would hear some celebration going on.

no people only discount science’s realm when science shows their preconceived ideas and beliefs to be wrong

Of course. And atheists dismiss all things religious even when religion does NOT affect scientific thought. Both views are short sighted…I wonder which is the more vision impaired?

To bring the topic back to the OP (hey, we ought to TRY for that once in awhile, yes?) the problem with depression in teens might be related to this very thing; the idea that it has to be either/or, and not ‘companion books’ on the same shelf. Religion/science/culture/peer pressure/parental pressure…I have had several Asian students with traditionally Asian parents, and they are under the sort of pressure that either builds mountain ranges…or cracks planets.

 

[dianaiad]

On the same token, I’ve spoken to atheists that believe that one day science will explain everything. I have noticed that atheists will claim that atheism is not a belief system but as above stated you have to have faith in something to even be an atheist. You have to have faith in humanity, that it will ultimately give you the honest answer to everything and that bias is not being used to explain something that a larger group of people wants or “needs.” Look at class warfare in the lead up to the Soviet Union, a truly atheist state, 50 million killed in the name of the “greater good.”

You aren’t discribing atheism, but humanism…different puppies. Pure atheism is best discribed as ‘non-belief.’ That’s the defense I get most often. However, I will admit that most of the atheists who come back at me with that answer cross over from ‘non-belief’ to 'I believe that there isn’t a god." For that, you are quite right; belief is definitly in there somewhere.

As to the Soviet Union and the famous atheist mass killers…in all honesty, the real reason behind those murders (even though atheism was used as an excuse in many of them, as in ‘I’m going to kill you because you are a theist’) the true reason behind them, as was the reason behind the crusades and all the mass murders attributed to theists, is…power and politics.

It’s the pendulum theory…beings, like humans, who are capable of great accomplishments and great good are ALSO capable of equally great evil. Fortunatly or unfortunately, as long as we are capable of something, someone, somewhere, will actually DO it.

 

[Justin1982]

As to the Soviet Union and the famous atheist mass killers…in all honesty, the real reason behind those murders (even though atheism was used as an excuse in many of them, as in ‘I’m going to kill you because you are a theist’) the true reason behind them, as was the reason behind the crusades and all the mass murders attributed to theists, is…power and politics.

It’s the pendulum theory…beings, like humans, who are capable of great accomplishments and great good are ALSO capable of equally great evil. Fortunatly or unfortunately, as long as we are capable of something, someone, somewhere, will actually DO it.

I find your Nietzsche-like world view rather disturbing, with a little study on the Crusades you will find that it was little the case of power and politics if you apply the fact that many of the Christian Holy and home lands had been taken by Muslim invaders. Jerusalem, Byzantium, most of north Africa and even Spain had been claimed for Islam with Christians either killed or made dhimmi’s under the Islamic system. War is never good but unjust aggressors need to be dealt with accordingly.

You call it the pendulum theory, God calls it free will. We are free to make any decision we choose whether good or bad, awareness of consequence is a good deterrent but striving for an ultimate goal is a better teacher.

 

[dianaiad]

I find your Nietzsche-like world view rather disturbing, with a little study on the Crusades you will find that it was little the case of power and politics if you apply the fact that many of the Christian Holy and home lands had been taken by Muslim invaders. Jerusalem, Byzantium, most of north Africa and even Spain had been claimed for Islam with Christians either killed or made dhimmi’s under the Islamic system. War is never good but unjust aggressors need to be dealt with accordingly.

You call it the pendulum theory, God calls it free will. We are free to make any decision we choose whether good or bad, awareness of consequence is a good deterrent but striving for an ultimate goal is a better teacher.

Oddly enough, Justin, I also call it ‘free will…’ and that concept is obvious in my post, when I referred to the fact that people who are capable of doing great good also capable of doing great evil. If free will were not involved, then surely they would be prevented from doing one or the other…

…and as far as I am aware, the Albegensians were not Muslim invaders, nor has it EVER been considered that just sending the 'wandering poor" out of the country to Jerusalem was a good idea (the 'Children’s crusade did not, in spite of myths, involve children).

 

[Spirithound]

“Sexually active females who are involved in religious activities report more depression and more emotional distress than sexually active males who are equally involved in religion.”

Well that’s a no-brainer…

 

[dianaiad]

“Sexually active females who are involved in religious activities report more depression and more emotional distress than sexually active males who are equally involved in religion.”

Well that’s a no-brainer…

really?

 

[Justin1982]

Oddly enough, Justin, I also call it ‘free will…’ and that concept is obvious in my post, when I referred to the fact that people who are capable of doing great good also capable of doing great evil. If free will were not involved, then surely they would be prevented from doing one or the other…

…and as far as I am aware, the Albegensians were not Muslim invaders, nor has it EVER been considered that just sending the 'wandering poor" out of the country to Jerusalem was a good idea (the 'Children’s crusade did not, in spite of myths, involve children).

The Albigensians were heretics who venerated suicide, abstinent marriage, and correct me if I’m wrong but infant sacrifice which perpetuated itself for 200 plus years. The Church worked with them for a long time until the Pope declared a Crusade which the french undertook because they were somehow growing in numbers and creeping into the political class.

My appologies for going way off topic this is being discussed away from this thread now.

 

[Spirithound]

really?

Sure. We’re talking about teens here, who are not married (of course, I’m only assuming they’re not married because they’re in high school), but are still sexually active. If the pastor were to repeatedly preach that something I enjoy doing were sinful, that would cause me rather a bit of emotional distress. Of course that doesn’t really explain why the males typically did not feel the same distress…ok, so not completely a no-brainer

The sticky wicket, of course will be interpretation of the results. The Church would look at that stat and recommend that the teens stop sinning. The secularist would look at that same stat and recommend the teens stop attending.

 

[dianaiad]

The Albigensians were heretics who venerated suicide, abstinent marriage, and correct me if I’m wrong but infant sacrifice which perpetuated itself for 200 plus years. The Church worked with them for a long time until the Pope declared a Crusade which the french undertook because they were somehow growing in numbers and creeping into the political class.

My appologies for going way off topic this is being discussed away from this thread now.

The Albegensians were not as…simple…as you portray them. They had two classes (rather like the current JW’s) of believers, and one was held to a far stricter standard than the other. They were certainly more ascetic than the local Catholic clergy, and unlike the Catholic clergy of the time, believed that everybody should be able to read the bible. They were, evidently, vegetarians. Most of what we know about their beliefs came from their enemies (like finding out what Catholics USED to believe if all Catholics died and only Jack Chick followers were around to get information from).

…and I have no idea how to bring THIS one back to the OP topic.

 

[benidict]

“Sexually active females who are involved in religious activities report more depression and more emotional distress than sexually active males who are equally involved in religion.”

Well that’s a no-brainer…

that is probably because, these dirt bag guys, are telling these young ladies they love them, and alot of other B.S. and when all is said and done, the females feel like they have been used and thrown away. id tell the guys, start respecting the ladies, as they would their mothers and sisters. i dont think they would appreciate anyone treating them this way. Peace

 

[Spirithound]

that is probably because, these dirt bag guys, are telling these young ladies they love them, and alot of other B.S. and when all is said and done, the females feel like they have been used and thrown away. id tell the guys, start respecting the ladies, as they would their mothers and sisters. i dont think they would appreciate anyone treating them this way. Peace

Absolutely a viable hypothesis. I wonder whether there was found a difference between sexually active females who attend religious services and sexually active females who do not.

 

[benidict]

Absolutely a viable hypothesis. I wonder whether there was found a difference between sexually active females who attend religious services and sexually active females who do not.

good question. Peace

 

[fathie]

I think I know why religion is one reason that causes depression. The church preaches about the one above us all who protects us, saves us, loves us and all that. When something really bad happens to us we blame Him and ask Him why He has forsaken us. When we want something and pray for it and it does not come or we don’t get it, again we turn against Him because we think that He is not helping us. But the truth is, we are not helping ourselves. Nothing will happen to us if we don’t put action to our words, we keep on blaming someone who is not really there and we are the ones who is depressing ourselves. Some people are just hypocrites and does not know the real meaning of faith. We have faith because we truly believe in Him, not because we want something from Him. Teens today are so caught up in the material and modern world and don’t know how to find peace in themselves. They keep on blaming others for their misfortunes while in fact they themselves caused it.

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