How SHOULD Health Care Work?

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There have been interesting points both pro and con on this issue in this thread. I believe hospitals do negotiate in one respect in that they write off millions of dollars annually for people who cannot pay. And the idea of employer paid health insurance came about in the 70s when Nixon installed wage and price controls. Employers could not long reward long standing employees with higher salary, nor could they reward those who had excelled in their jobs, so they started adding benefits to induce employee loyalty, etc. Prior to that most people were responsible for their own health care. It was when we got all these other entities involved that health care sky-rocketed.

We do have so much more technology at play here and so many more treatment options are available. But I question whether it is a “right” to have all this available. If people had to manage their own health care accounts, I think we would have smaller ER visits except by those who really need an ER. Community based preventive health care would go a long way toward reducing the cost, I think.
Seems to me that employer-paid medical insurance (called “hospitalization insurance” as I recall) started in WW2 … again due to wage controls imposed by the Federal government.

I started full time civilian employment in 1968 and I had medical insurance from work … and that was before Nixon started the wage and price controls. Seems to me the wage/price controls were around 1980.
 
As pointed out, the people who need expensive health care can buy the insurance they need. Either you go with individual policies or you stay with the group policy structure currently in existence.

There is not and cannot be a “perfect” system. I could become self-employed tomorrow flipping houses and leave health insurance forever, and the insurance companies will still be with us, like them or not. As for hospitals writing off uncollectible balances, this usually occurs only in very poor neighborhoods. You can bet big hospital chains get the money they want one way or another.
 
As pointed out, the people who need expensive health care can buy the insurance they need. Either you go with individual policies or you stay with the group policy structure currently in existence.

There is not and cannot be a “perfect” system. I could become self-employed tomorrow flipping houses and leave health insurance forever, and the insurance companies will still be with us, like them or not. As for hospitals writing off uncollectible balances, this usually occurs only in very poor neighborhoods. You can bet big hospital chains get the money they want one way or another.
You have illustrated a basic principle we shouldn’t forget – not all of us wear the same size shoes. We aren’t all the same age, weight, height and sex. We don’t all have the same job.

We need choices. We need to be able to tailor our health care plans to suit ourselves. We definitely don’t need Big Brother forcing us all into the same health care plan – or the same shoes.
 
You can bet big hospital chains get the money they want one way or another.
Yeah, you can pretty much assume that they are staying afloat if they don’t have any bankrupcy notices hitting the news. If they are expanding, then at least they are attractive enough for investors, though they can always get in over their heads if their projections are wrong. If you see it closing, you can no they are losing money, and have no hope to make it up in the future.
 
Yeah, you can pretty much assume that they are staying afloat if they don’t have any bankrupcy notices hitting the news. If they are expanding, then at least they are attractive enough for investors, though they can always get in over their heads if their projections are wrong. If you see it closing, you can no they are losing money, and have no hope to make it up in the future.
And if they go broke and close down, that will be of no benefit to anyone. Those who have an ingrained dislike of “big hospital chains” ought to remember that.
 
You have illustrated a basic principle we shouldn’t forget – not all of us wear the same size shoes. We aren’t all the same age, weight, height and sex. We don’t all have the same job.

We need choices. We need to be able to tailor our health care plans to suit ourselves. We definitely don’t need Big Brother forcing us all into the same health care plan – or the same shoes.
Don’t Medical Savings Accounts give us choice?
 
Don’t Medical Savings Accounts give us choice?
Indeed they do. But “single payer” systems do not. They turn all the decision-making authority over to the “single payer” under the Golden Rule – who has the gold, makes the rules.
 
Don’t Medical Savings Accounts give us choice?
Indeed they do. But our friends on the other side of the aisle want us to believe that we are too dumb to figure out what to do with that choice. We need the gov’ment to help us.
 
Indeed they do. But our friends on the other side of the aisle want us to believe that we are too dumb to figure out what to do with that choice. We need the gov’ment to help us.
When I was running for Congress, I would often share a podium with a lady who was running in the Democratic primary for the Senate nomination. Since she was running for the Senate, protocol always gave her the first speech – and she would rant and rave about the medicare drug card plan, “**SEVENTY-EIGHT **choices!! That’s too many choices!!”

When my turn to speak came, I would alway compliment her on her shoes – and ask her how she managed to pick out just the right pair among "**SEVENTY-EIGHT **choices at the shoe store.😛
 
Indeed they do. But our friends on the other side of the aisle want us to believe that we are too dumb to figure out what to do with that choice. We need the gov’ment to help us.
It is easy for those with good jobs to say that this method is effectual or that method is. Any method must find a way to pay for the under-insured and those who make very little or no money. Medicaid and Medicare might work, where they not capped so that wealthy peoples contribution is maxed out.

Some people, people that work very hard, do need the governments help. Others, who would die in the street, our society chooses to care for.
 
It is easy for those with good jobs to say that this method is effectual or that method is. Any method must find a way to pay for the under-insured and those who make very little or no money. Medicaid and Medicare might work, where they not capped so that wealthy peoples contribution is maxed out.
More taxes is always the answer, eh?
Some people, people that work very hard, do need the governments help. Others, who would die in the street, our society chooses to care for.
It is a very **bad **idea to design a national health care system for a tiny percentage of the people. A flexible system with lots of choices is what we need.
 
More taxes is always the answer, eh?

It is a very **bad **idea to design a national health care system for a tiny percentage of the people. A flexible system with lots of choices is what we need.
Well, many hospitals do 10% or more free care. It may seem like a little percent to you, but to them, the cost is enormous, especially when you consider non-profits like Catholic hospitals.

I am not saying that I need my health insurance changed. I am not saying that you do.

But, when the elderly where paying into Medicare, they earned a right to get the same quality health care that others are getting. It’s called entitlement. Well, the system is going to go broke, what should we do? Increase the burden on people who spend all of their money to support the economy anyway (poor and middle class)? Just give them the same ****** care the often get now?

Doesn’t someone have to pay?

Are you going to be able to make a charitable organization, filled with excellent doctors to care for them?

Or wallow in your own good fortunes and let them die?

Stratified health care sounds like an excellent way to create turmoil. We have it to some degree now.

More taxes? I don’t know, I like the bargaining power of a starving beast…
 
Well, many hospitals do 10% or more free care. It may seem like a little percent to you, but to them, the cost is enormous, especially when you consider non-profits like Catholic hospitals.
Which is why I say it’s a bad idea to design a health care system for a tiny fraction of the people. We have this pernicious idea that hospitals are somehow “bad.” So we punish them by making pay for health care for the poor. Naturally, for them to stay in business, they pass on the costs to other patents. which is an unfair burden on those who have to pay extra. At the time when they most need their money to pay for their own health care, they have to pay extra.
I am not saying that I need my health insurance changed. I am not saying that you do.

But, when the elderly where paying into Medicare, they earned a right to get the same quality health care that others are getting. It’s called entitlement.
It’s called a pyramid scheme, and if anyone but the government were doing it, they’d be put in prison for it.
Well, the system is going to go broke, what should we do? Increase the burden on people who spend all of their money to support the economy anyway (poor and middle class)? Just give them the same ****** care the often get now?

Doesn’t someone have to pay?
At the very beginning of this thread, I said “someone has to pay.”

I recommended (among other things) Medical Savings Accounts, with for assistance for the poor incorporating a double sliding scale .
Are you going to be able to make a charitable organization, filled with excellent doctors to care for them?

Or wallow in your own good fortunes and let them die?
As opposed to taxing everyone, squandering the taxes on bureaucracy and paperwork, and letting them die anyway?
 
The ‘assistance’ won’t pay for ongoing treatment in cases of serious illness (eg chemotherapy). Once the money in the account is gone, that’s it. Curious, do you also believe that the pention is also an immoral burden on the taxpayer? I suspect yes.
 
The ‘assistance’ won’t pay for ongoing treatment in cases of serious illness (eg chemotherapy). Once the money in the account is gone, that’s it.
What assistance are you talking about?
Curious, do you also believe that the pention is also an immoral burden on the taxpayer? I suspect yes.
I’d much rather see more generous 401Ks – I put the max into my 401K and it paid off very well.
 
As an employee of the insurance industry…I just found out yesterday at a lunch with some fellow coworkers who sell health coverage to companies…that 70% of the diseases and claims are due to lifestyle choices. (this isn’t a poll we ran, it is commonly known in the medical industry) So–at my company, we are going to run an experiment globally…it will take effort upon that of top top mgmt, but to see if changing lifestyle (smoking cessation programs, weight watchers on site, giving people incentives for watching what they eat and drink, etc…) leads to lower claims.

Yes, some diseases are hereditary…but, 70% are directly related to how lead our lives…and don’t take care of ourselves, as a whole…as a society.

I’ll have to make sure to remember to post back here after the verdict is in with how we do.🙂
 
As an employee of the insurance industry…I just found out yesterday at a lunch with some fellow coworkers who sell health coverage to companies…that 70% of the diseases and claims are due to lifestyle choices. So–at my company, we are going to run an experiment globally…it will take effort upon that of top top mgmt, but to see if changing lifestyle (smoking cessation programs, weight watchers on site, giving people incentives for watching what they eat and drink, etc…) leads to lower claims.

Yes, some diseases are hereditary…but, 70% are directly related to how lead our lives…and don’t take care of ourselves, as a whole…as a society.

I’ll have to make sure to remember to post back here after the verdict is in with how we do.🙂
Interestingly enough, after all the hoorah about how tobacco companies cost healthcare systems money, there is some evidence that they actually save healthcare money. Smokers die faster, and cost less.
 
What assistance are you talking about?

.
the MSA you mention, with ‘provisions’ for the poor, which I take to mean government gives them a certain amount of money to begin with and a tax-free portion of their wages goes into the account thereafter.
 
the MSA you mention, with ‘provisions’ for the poor, which I take to mean government gives them a certain amount of money to begin with and a tax-free portion of their wages goes into the account thereafter.
The Government guarentees a certain portion. It works like this – imagine based on a certain person’s tax return, he is expected to be able to contribute $1,000. The government guarentees the other $2,000.

The government only pays out money when he seeks treatment – and then only covers part of the treatment – he pays the other part. There is a second sliding scale that ensures he always has some money in his MSA up to the last dollar – to give him an incentive to save and bargain for healthcare.
 
Interestingly enough, after all the hoorah about how tobacco companies cost healthcare systems money, there is some evidence that they actually save healthcare money. Smokers die faster, and cost less.
from a small claims standpoint however (small claims meaning claims that add up slowly) …smokers can have more throat illnesses, flus, colds, etc…along the way than their non smoking counterparts. again, medical stats not insurance stats. but, let’s face it…smoking is by far not the only problem out there when it comes to escalating claims and rising health insurance prices…the obesity rate in this country soars far above the rest of the world…and it’s unreal how many diseases are linked to that… even being 40 lbs overweight can impact one’s health. i know that when i don’t work out, i feel pretty lousy, as opposed to when i try to be consistent.

so…there’s proof in the pudding. (non sugar pudding albeit)😃

ps: the interesting thing that employers need to note though, is that when you ask your ee’s to work 12+ hours per day …lay off people and ask others to do the work of three people…where on earth will be all this extra time for them to work out and cook healthy meals? so, not only will it take personal change, but employers need to step up and stop overworking their employees, quite frankly. two way street.
 
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