How should I understand the CC's view on capital punishment?

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Okay, so abortion (among other topics) is something that has consistently been condemned in Church teaching since its beginning, and infallibly defined as morally evil. We will not find such a thing for capital punishment. Capital punishment was openly practiced through the entirety of the past two millenniums in Christian lands, and continues to be practiced some today. There didn’t seem to be a huge outcry from the Church with that, or if there was, it was a peep compared to its firmness on other issues. However, taking a life is always an evil thing, and in Catholic theology it only is made acceptable through the principle of double effect.

So how is it that this view developed into a more firm stance against capital punishment today, when the technology to quarantine people is something that has been around for ages? If, let’s say, we fell into a dystopian future, would this cease to be much of an issue once again? How much of this is discretionary?
 
I think the clarified stance on the nature of capital punishment we see in the current CCC is directed mainly at the US, being the only Christian country in the world that practices it. All other Christian countries have abandoned it gradually over the last century or more for the very reasons the CCC gives. It’s cruel and unnecessary in our times.
 
Right, but heightened sensitivity just within the past century isn’t by itself an adequate explanation. Moral law is timeless, and the power to not kill a confined prisoner has been around since the Roman Empire and before. What changed? (I’m against capital punishment btw, but I want to be against for the right reasons, not because its a fad among rich white people)
 
The Church recognises that civil authorities are permitted to resort to capital punishment in the interest of their mandate to serve and protect society from harmful agressors, but she makes the point that its retributive value is only symbolic and its safeguarding and medicinal value need to be assessed in the context of the times. The Church is saying that capital punishment has to promote the sanctity of life… and it isn’t doing that in the current environment.
 
So capital punishment is more about discipline (time and place) then an actual doctrine. In the US it is unnecessary; in Somalia it may be the most prudent option.
 
It is a judicial precept that is in service to a moral law. It isn’t actually the moral law itself. That moral precept is that the lives of human beings are sacred and always will be. We have a responsibility to condemn capital punishment as an institution, everywhere while still recognising it as permissable in extreme cases of harmful agressors who continue to threaten society. Bin Laden for example. Even were it necessary as a general law of some society, it has to be recognised as an allowance… not a right.
 
Sincerely, the way.it is written in the cathecism, they give you a general rule.first and then they start to give exceptions, and by the time you get to the last exception, the exceptions have swallowed the original rule in its totality. If you read it all, the only situation after all the exceptions in which the church actually would approve capital punishment (again after all the exceptions and reading the entire clause) is killing a mass shooter during the course of a mass shooting. Any other situation falls within the exceptions.
 
Yeah, where’s your catechism? Here it is online and a hard copy is very good to have on hand. No funds? Heck, I’ll send you a spare copy!
 
CCC 2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."68
 
Capital punishment was openly practiced through the entirety of the past two millenniums in Christian lands, and continues to be practiced some today. There didn’t seem to be a huge outcry from the Church with that, or if there was, it was a peep compared to its firmness on other issues.
Far from opposing capital punishment the church has always recognized that states have a moral right to apply it.
However, taking a life is always an evil thing…
If taking a life was always evil then the church would never have allowed it inasmuch as she teaches that we may not do evil even though good may come of it.
…in Catholic theology it only is made acceptable through the principle of double effect.
The church has never justified capital punishment on that basis. The foundation of her position is that the punishment is, for certain crimes, just. She has taken Gn 9:6 quite literally.
So how is it that this view developed into a more firm stance against capital punishment today…
The church has always recognized that capital punishment should not be applied if it constituted a threat to the public and it appears that this is why it is opposed now, not because it is immoral but because it is unhelpful.
… the technology to quarantine people is something that has been around for ages?
I’m glad you made this point since it is surely true.

Ender
 
Right, but heightened sensitivity just within the past century isn’t by itself an adequate explanation. Moral law is timeless, and the power to not kill a confined prisoner has been around since the Roman Empire and before. What changed?
  • The Pope and the bishops, using their prudential judgment, have concluded that in contemporary society, at least in countries like our own, the death penalty ought not to be invoked, because, on balance, it does more harm than good. *(Cardinal Dulles)
    The objection to its use is practical.
Ender
 
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Cathoholic:
Yes, as no legal system ever attempts to “fully determine” culpability so no one.can be determined fully culpable unless the person is caught in the act by officials, as in our days law enforcement has many othe non lethal ways to defend human life, and authority must limit themselves to those means, and there are many other ways to punish aggressors and keep then away from the public and to add that at the end it states that cases where execution is necessary are so.rare that it.is almost unexistant, basically you cannot use the death penalty. The only situation that would actually fit in all these exceptions is someone with a gun mass murdering people at a public place that the only way for the police to stop him would be to kill him.
 
Yes, as no legal system ever attempts to “fully determine” culpability so no one.can be determined fully culpable unless the person is caught in the act by officials, as in our days law enforcement has many othe non lethal ways to defend human life, and authority must limit themselves to those means, and there are many other ways to punish aggressors and keep then away from the public and to add that at the end it states that cases where execution is necessary are so.rare that it.is almost unexistant, basically you cannot use the death penalty. The only situation that would actually fit in all these exceptions is someone with a gun mass murdering people at a public place that the only way for the police to stop him would be to kill him.
OR… if they continue to kill while incarcerated.

It is a question of Justice, not just the protection of life. Is it just to kill a person guilty of a capital offense?

Justice is the reason the state exists. See firstthings.com/article/2008/08/catholicism-amp-capital-punishment-21

This is a great exposition on the purposes of punishment.
Rehabilitation
Defense against the criminal
Deterrence
Retribution
 
So capital punishment is more about discipline (time and place) then an actual doctrine.
No, it is a very established doctrine. *The doctrine remains what it has been: that the State, in principle, has the right to impose the death penalty on persons convicted of very serious crimes. *(Cardinal Dulles)
What is not doctrine is 2267. As to the Pope’s assertion that the death penalty should today be rare, I would reaffirm, against Justice Scalia, that this is to be understood as an exercise of the Pope’s prudential judgment. …Their prudential judgment, while it is to be respected, is not a matter of binding Catholic doctrine.(Cardinal Dulles)
It is, furthermore, a doctrine that is unlikely to ever change. *There are certain moral norms that have always and everywhere been held by the successors of the Apostles in communion with the Bishop of Rome. Although never formally defined, they are irreversibly binding on the followers of Christ until the end of the world. Such moral truths are the grave sinfulness of contraception and direct abortion. Such, too, is the Catholic doctrine which defends the imposition of the death penalty. *(Fr. John Hardon)
Ender
 
Okay, so abortion (among other topics) is something that has consistently been condemned in Church teaching since its beginning, and infallibly defined as morally evil.
You’re right about that. 👍
We will not find such a thing for capital punishment
.

Of course not. Because there are times when it is just and necessary to apply the death penalty.
Capital punishment was openly practiced through the entirety of the past two millenniums in Christian lands, and continues to be practiced some today. There didn’t seem to be a huge outcry from the Church with that, or if there was, it was a peep compared to its firmness on other issues.
Because it’s largely an issue of prudence for when to apply capital punishment, since it’s not in and of itself wrong. You will find instances of Church Fathers condemning the use of capital punishment, but not because they have a problem with it per se, but because of the way it’s being used. Once states became Christian, there became much less of a problem with its usage, because it was assumed Christian kings and princes would apply it in a prudent manner according to Catholic teaching. As society has become less Christian, we’ve started to hear more and more from the Church about the necessity to give up capital punishment.
However, taking a life is always an evil thing,
No. It’s always sad when a life has to be taken, and it’s best not to be taken if it isn’t necessary, but it is by no means always evil.
and in Catholic theology it only is made acceptable through the principle of double effect.
Not true with capital punishment. There is value in retribution and justice, the giving of what one deserves. Of course, the Church has and does ask that authorities show mercy toward aggressors. These two principles must be balanced by the use of prudent judgment.
So how is it that this view developed into a more firm stance against capital punishment today, when the technology to quarantine people is something that has been around for ages? If, let’s say, we fell into a dystopian future, would this cease to be much of an issue once again? How much of this is discretionary?
Let’s take a look at CCC 2267:

Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

Pretty self explanatory. Just keep in mind that “defending human lives” doesn’t include merely physical defense, but also moral and spiritual defense as well. It’s a very short summary of Church teaching on capital punishment.

*If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person. *

The Church asks that society not use capital punishment today because it better serves the common good with respect to understanding the sacredness of human life, something our modern liberal world has no understanding of. Just look at abortion, embryonic stem cell research on one hand, and on the other the use of torture or the death penalty for trivial reasons in less developed countries. By not using the death penalty in our modern world, we are better showing the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”

Further shows the Church requesting the abolition of the death penalty, both for the good of society and the criminal.
 
I usually just lurk when I have the time. This subject has interested me for some time now in order to better understand Church teaching. In first world countries there is no reason for capital punishment, so far as I can see, not in this day and age.

But what about a situation like Poland in WWII? She was overrun by the Nazis in the west and Soviets in the east, in 1939. The Polish Underground actually set up special courts. Polish citizens were subjected to them, oftentimes for collaboration and treason and executions were carried out.

I doubt that the Church will ever ‘outlaw,’ for lack of a better term, capital punishment. There’s no telling what our world will be like in, say, 200 years, 500 years, and so on, and the Church in her wisdom knows this.

– Patty
 
In first world countries there is no reason for capital punishment, so far as I can see, not in this day and age.
The reason for capital punishment is the same today as it has always been: the need for retributive justice. The physical defense of society is not the primary objective of punishment and it is therefore not the primary determinant of whether or not capital punishment should be used.
I doubt that the Church will ever ‘outlaw,’ for lack of a better term, capital punishment.
True, this will never happen.*The death penalty is not intrinsically evil. Both Scripture and long Christian tradition acknowledge the legitimacy of capital punishment under certain circumstances. The Church cannot repudiate that without repudiating her own identity. *(Archbishop Chaput)
Ender
 
I usually just lurk when I have the time. This subject has interested me for some time now in order to better understand Church teaching. In first world countries there is no reason for capital punishment, so far as I can see, not in this day and age.

But what about a situation like Poland in WWII? She was overrun by the Nazis in the west and Soviets in the east, in 1939. The Polish Underground actually set up special courts. Polish citizens were subjected to them, oftentimes for collaboration and treason and executions were carried out.

I doubt that the Church will ever ‘outlaw,’ for lack of a better term, capital punishment. There’s no telling what our world will be like in, say, 200 years, 500 years, and so on, and the Church in her wisdom knows this.

– Patty
That is because capital punishment is neither intrinsically evil in the way of abortion and euthasia… or intriscally good in the way of praying, the sacraments and even the duty to punish sinners within the scope of civil society. It doesn’t have an intrinsic moral value. It is a tool in service of a greater good. The sacredness of human life.

So yes, it is foreseeable that the times and environments of the future may still warrant resorting to its use for the good of society.
 
That is because capital punishment is neither intrinsically evil in the way of abortion and euthanasia… or intrinsically good in the way of praying…
If an act is intrinsically bad then the intention is immaterial; it is wrong even if the intention behind it is good. There is not, however, something that is intrinsically good because no good act makes the intention immaterial. Even if the act is good if the intention behind it is bad then the action itself is bad, therefore while something can be intrinsically bad there is nothing that can be intrinsically good. Consider praying: I don’t think anyone would consider it a good thing for a person to pray that his neighbor contract AIDS and die.

Ender
 
If an act is intrinsically bad then the intention is immaterial; it is wrong even if the intention behind it is good. There is not, however, something that is intrinsically good because no good act makes the intention immaterial. Even if the act is good if the intention behind it is bad then the action itself is bad, therefore while something can be intrinsically bad there is nothing that can be intrinsically good. Consider praying: I don’t think anyone would consider it a good thing for a person to pray that his neighbor contract AIDS and die.

Ender
I haven’t looked too thoroughly for any writings that specifically address the intrinsic good in a thing, but they do exist. To pray is to put yourself at the mercy of God in an act of faith. People have struggled with how to pray for … millenia. The Apostles asked Jesus how to pray. If we take an ungodly request to God, we are reacting in some sort of ignorance, but we are still submitting to the power of God and that is an intrinsically good act.

The Sacraments are of the same nature. Someone can approach the Sacraments with an ignorant or malicious heart, but the Sacrament remains intrinsically good. A person may condemn themselves but the Sacrament does not condemn them. St Teresa of Avila even related an incident that demonstrates the intrinsic good of the Eucharist…

"Once, while approaching to receive Communion, I saw with my soul’s eyes more clearly than with my bodily eyes two devils whose appearance was abominable. It seems to me their horns were wrapped around the poor priests’s throat, and in the host that was going to be given to me I saw my Lord with the majesty I mentioned placed in the priest’s hands, which were clearly seen to be His offender’s; and I understood that that soul was in mortal sin. What would it be my Lord, to see Your beauty in the midst of such abominable figures? They were as though frightened and terrified in Your presence, for it seems they would have very eagerly fled had You allowed them.

This vision caused me such great disturbance I don’t know how I was able to receive Communion, and I was left with a great fear, thinking that if the vision had been from God, His Majesty would not have permitted me to see the evil that was in that soul. The Lord Himself told me to pray for him and that He had permitted it so that I might understand the power of the words of consecration and how God does not fail to be present, however evil the priest who recites them, and that I might see His great goodness since He places Himself in those hands of His enemy, and all out of love for me and for everyone. I understood well how much more priests are obliged to be good than are others, how deplorable a thing it is to receive this most Blessed Sacrament unworthily, and how much the devil is lord over the soul in mortal sin. It did me a great deal of good and brought me deep understanding of what I owed God. May He be blessed forever and ever."

Things that are intrinsically good prove their merit as enduring institutions in society and nothing can negate their intrinsic goodness not even a prudential judgement of the times. Capital punishment is not an enduring institution and its subjection to ‘prudential judgement’ proves that to be the case. It is a sentence with a civil purpose. Not an enduring institution.
 
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