How should ISIL be stopped?

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Air drop some Ebola on them.
They are absolutely powerless against it.
 
This is an unfortunate situation. If Turkey is attacked, doesn’t that mean the US has to send ground troops? According to NATO I believe…

I was also viewing a YouTube video where these extremists CRUCIFIED someone. Also, I just read that one man survived after being nailed to a cross for eight hours.

Then I viewed the comments and a few Muslims (I assume) even agreed that criminals should be put on display like a crucified man to discourage others from doing crime. Then they compared it to when heads would be put on display.
😦
 
Eduardo06sp said:
This is an unfortunate situation. If Turkey is attacked, doesn’t that mean the US has to send ground troops? According to NATO I believe…

I was also viewing a YouTube video where these extremists CRUCIFIED someone. Also, I just read that one man survived after being nailed to a cross for eight hours.

Then I viewed the comments and a few Muslims (I assume) even agreed that criminals should be put on display like a crucified man to discourage others from doing crime. Then they compared it to when heads would be put on display.
😦
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Perhaps they take the New Testament literally where Jesus says: “And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.” Matthew 5:30.
 
PolarGuy said:
Tomdstone, although I can appreciate your sentiments – and although we can look to the Popes for guidance – I can’t help but conclude that the “War never again!” is a merely an ideal which gives way in the face of a specific instance of aggressive war. The Church does not require us to believe that war is never justified, nor does the Church hold that.

Also, to the extent you favor diplomacy, please consider that diplomacy absolutely requires 1 thing which can rarely be assured: That the other side negotiates in good faith. According to his advisors who later spoke publicly, Jimmy Carter absolutely could not believe, in the late 1970s, that the Russians would lie to him, and he was absolutely floored when he learned that they had. Remember also that Japan had envoys pretending to seek a peaceful “solution” to US-Japan problems in 1941 even as the Japanese carrier fleet steamed toward Pearl Harbor to attack it, i.e., their “diplomacy” was a ruse designed to cover their impending sneak attack. So it is with ISIS: I’m sure you could find someone to negotiate with at their end, just so they could lull you into a false sense of security; buy time to rearm and get a respite, etc., but it would be merely a ruse.

As I’ve written elsewhere, there are some on this board who take Christianity to such extreme that no violence is ever justified - but that is not Church teaching.

I admit I’m curious – perhaps you are the 1 in 100 who would not have voted war on Japan after Pearl Harbor was attacked? Do you think the USA should have tried to negotiate peace with the Nazis in 1941?
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I follow what the infallible Holy Father has said:
“No more war, war never again!” … “Peace, it is peace which must guide the destinies of people”
 
Tomdstone, some points:
  1. The pope is not infallible. You know that. The church may be in the very few and rare instances when it speaks ex cathedra but he is not.
  2. Discussions are impossible where one party won’t answer questions. I asked if, as a senator, you would have voted against war with the Japanese, or thought the USA should have negotiated with nazis. You didn’t answer, other than to say you follow the infallible pope (which is an answer in and of itself, just not one discussion can flow from). However your position is not the church position: the church does not say war is never allowable; you might think that (erroneously) but the church does not.
I would add that anyone who thinks the USA should not have declared war on japan in 1941, or thinks the USA should negotiate with nazis, clearly cannot be reasoned with and frankly is not worthy of further discussion. End of discussion.
 
Tomdstone said:
I follow what the infallible Holy Father has said:
“No more war, war never again!” … “Peace, it is peace which must guide the destinies of people”
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Here is what the pope affirmed as of late,

"Pope Francis summoned Vatican ambassadors from across the region for three days of meetings. At the conclusion Saturday, they reaffirmed that military force was justified to stop the Islamic State group and that Muslim and Christian religious leaders must denounce the “instrumentalization of religion to justify violence.”

m.nydailynews.com/news/national/pope-francis-reaffirms-isis-stopped-article-1.1963754#bmb=1

Or here:

"“In these cases, where there is an unjust aggression, I can only say that it is licit to stop the unjust aggressor,” Francis said. “I underscore the verb ‘stop.’ I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war,’ just ‘stop.’ And the means that can be used to stop them must be evaluated.”

But, he said, in history, such “excuses” to stop an unjust aggression have been used by world powers to justify a “war of conquest” in which an entire people have been taken over.

“One nation alone cannot judge how you stop this, how you stop an unjust aggressor,” he said, apparently referring to the United States. “After World War II, the idea of the United Nations came about: It’s there that you must discuss, ‘Is there an unjust aggression? It seems so. How should we stop it?’ Just this. Nothing more.”
-Pope Francis Aug 18th 2014
 
Jon_S said:
Here is what the pope affirmed as of late,

"Pope Francis summoned Vatican ambassadors from across the region for three days of meetings. At the conclusion Saturday, they reaffirmed that military force was justified to stop the Islamic State group and that Muslim and Christian religious leaders must denounce the “instrumentalization of religion to justify violence.”

m.nydailynews.com/news/national/pope-francis-reaffirms-isis-stopped-article-1.1963754#bmb=1

Or here:

"“In these cases, where there is an unjust aggression, I can only say that it is licit to stop the unjust aggressor,” Francis said. “I underscore the verb ‘stop.’ I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war,’ just ‘stop.’ And the means that can be used to stop them must be evaluated.”

But, he said, in history, such “excuses” to stop an unjust aggression have been used by world powers to justify a “war of conquest” in which an entire people have been taken over.

“One nation alone cannot judge how you stop this, how you stop an unjust aggressor,” he said, apparently referring to the United States. “After World War II, the idea of the United Nations came about: It’s there that you must discuss, ‘Is there an unjust aggression? It seems so. How should we stop it?’ Just this. Nothing more.”
-Pope Francis Aug 18th 2014
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I agree with the Holy Father. He says to stop the agression. "I underscore the verb ‘stop.’** I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war, just ‘stop.’ "**’ Since bombing and war is ruled out, the best way to stop the agression IMHO is to negotiate a peace diplomatically and not to bomb or make war.
 
Tomdstone said:
I agree with the Holy Father. He says to stop the agression. "I underscore the verb ‘stop.’** I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war, just ‘stop.’ "**’ Since bombing and war is ruled out, the best way to stop the agression IMHO is to negotiate a peace diplomatically and not to bomb or make war.
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One of the ways to accomplish this would be to convert them to Christianity. Perhaps you should attempt to do that because that is what we are commissioned to do by God Himself.
Would you join a group going over to help spread the word to these people so that we may have peace and save souls in the process?
 
Tomdstone said:
I agree with the Holy Father. He says to stop the agression. "I underscore the verb ‘stop.’** I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war, just ‘stop.’ "**’ Since bombing and war is ruled out, the best way to stop the agression IMHO is to negotiate a peace diplomatically and not to bomb or make war.
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And what would that negotiated peace contain? Allowing ISIS full control of swaths of Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, persecuted religious minorities and destroying, not just Christian Churches and shrines but those of shia Muslims? Do you honestly think these people are willing to give in to anything? At the present, they’re winning!

What do you do if a thief is breaking into your house to rob, rape and harm your family? Do you try to calmly talk him out of it or give him a negotiated settlement?
 
Timothysis said:
And what would that negotiated peace contain? Allowing ISIS full control of swaths of Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, persecuted religious minorities and destroying, not just Christian Churches and shrines but those of shia Muslims? Do you honestly think these people are willing to give in to anything? At the present, they’re winning!

What do you do if a thief is breaking into your house to rob, rape and harm your family? Do you try to calmly talk him out of it or give him a negotiated settlement?
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I am for peaceful means of settling problems. Many would be murderers have been talked out of their crime by faithful Christians who patiently take the time to discuss and sympathize with the unfortunate situations which have led this person to desperation.
As the Holy Father has said:
"I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war’ "
This is exactly my point. Let us not bomb or make war. but let us try peaceful and diplomatic means to achieve a peaceful solution.
 
Tomdstone said:
I agree with the Holy Father. He says to stop the agression. "I underscore the verb ‘stop.’** I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war, just ‘stop.’ "**’ Since bombing and war is ruled out, the best way to stop the agression IMHO is to negotiate a peace diplomatically and not to bomb or make war.
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I am curious if you have seen the pictures of ISIS killing babies and children and parents. Not many really have the stomach to see them, but I am wondering if you have seen the evil that is happening. It may sway your opinion…
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I am curious if you have seen the pictures of ISIS killing babies and children and parents. Not many really have the stomach to see them, but I am wondering if you have seen the evil that is happening. It may sway your opinion…
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I’ve seen it and it’ absolutely horrible stuff. ISIS themselves rule out the justice and are its executioners.:eek: Thus you’ll see beheading, execution style shots to the head, and mass murders of families and friends by firing squad. But before then, they ask them to dig their own graves then shoot them on site.:bigyikes:
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I am curious if you have seen the pictures of ISIS killing babies and children and parents. Not many really have the stomach to see them, but I am wondering if you have seen the evil that is happening. It may sway your opinion…
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Obviously, children being killed and harmed has a severe emotional impact on those that witness it. But it goes two ways. The extremists in the Middle East are showing their followers pictures of their children wounded and killed by American bombs. Have you seen the pictures from Gaza of hundreds of innocent people killed by weapons made in the USA? And where did ISIS get the weapons which enabled them to commit these horrible crimes? What is the origin of many of these weapons? Where were they made? Which country exported these weapons to this area?
War results in the killing of many innocent people and we can inflame the situation and cause more deaths or we can try to stop the killing by peaceful negotiations. As the Holy Father has said:" I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war’ ". The goal is to stop the violence, and not inflame the situation, thus creating unintended consequences of more chaos, more anti-Americanism, more violence.
 
Tomdstone said:
I am for peaceful means of settling problems. Many would be murderers have been talked out of their crime by faithful Christians who patiently take the time to discuss and sympathize with the unfortunate situations which have led this person to desperation.
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Prisons around the world are full of people who simply could NOT be talked out of doing the evil they do. Why do you think the recidivism rate is as high as it is?
Tomdstone said:
As the Holy Father has said:
"I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war’ "
This is exactly my point. Let us not bomb or make war. but let us try peaceful and diplomatic means to achieve a peaceful solution.
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And the Holy Father should really choose his words better because he also said that using military force is justified to stop these people. So which is it? No bombing or making war but it is ok to use force to stop them? Honestly, you’re living in a fool’s paradise if you think evil in this world can simply be talked out of existence. If someone is attacking your wife are gonna take action or try and talk him out of it?
 
Tomdstone said:
Obviously, children being killed and harmed has a severe emotional impact on those that witness it. But it goes two ways. The extremists in the Middle East are showing their followers pictures of their children wounded and killed by American bombs. Have you seen the pictures from Gaza of hundreds of innocent people killed by weapons made in the USA? And where did ISIS get the weapons which enabled them to commit these horrible crimes? What is the origin of many of these weapons? Where were they made? Which country exported these weapons to this area?
War results in the killing of many innocent people and we can inflame the situation and cause more deaths or we can try to stop the killing by peaceful negotiations. As the Holy Father has said:" I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war’ ". The goal is to stop the violence, and not inflame the situation, thus creating unintended consequences of more chaos, more anti-Americanism, more violence.
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Yeah, you’re right. Its all our fault. Blame America first.:rolleyes:
 
Tomdstone said:
Obviously, children being killed and harmed has a severe emotional impact on those that witness it. But it goes two ways. The extremists in the Middle East are showing their followers pictures of their children wounded and killed by American bombs. Have you seen the pictures from Gaza of hundreds of innocent people killed by weapons made in the USA? And where did ISIS get the weapons which enabled them to commit these horrible crimes? What is the origin of many of these weapons? Where were they made? Which country exported these weapons to this area?
War results in the killing of many innocent people and we can inflame the situation and cause more deaths or we can try to stop the killing by peaceful negotiations. As the Holy Father has said:" I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war’ ". The goal is to stop the violence, and not inflame the situation, thus creating unintended consequences of more chaos, more anti-Americanism, more violence.
Click to expand...
I saw a film the other day in which our equipment’s Tanks, military vehicle such as Hummers and other high powered ground equipment were abandoned by the Iraqi police for ISIS to commandeer. Not just one or two but Masses of heavy equipment. We buy Iraqi their equipment they leave it for ISIS to use against their own women and children.
 
I still say we should deploy Ebola and let nature take its course.
 
Tomdstone said:
Obviously, children being killed and harmed has a severe emotional impact on those that witness it. But it goes two ways. The extremists in the Middle East are showing their followers pictures of their children wounded and killed by American bombs. Have you seen the pictures from Gaza of hundreds of innocent people killed by weapons made in the USA? And where did ISIS get the weapons which enabled them to commit these horrible crimes? What is the origin of many of these weapons? Where were they made? Which country exported these weapons to this area?
War results in the killing of many innocent people and we can inflame the situation and cause more deaths or we can try to stop the killing by peaceful negotiations. As the Holy Father has said:" I’m not saying ‘bomb’ or ‘make war’ ". The goal is to stop the violence, and not inflame the situation, thus creating unintended consequences of more chaos, more anti-Americanism, more violence.
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The question was have you seen it? I think not as it is much different than pictures of children that may have been bombed. I would encourage you to educate yourself on this issue because I admire your principles and zeal. But I cannot imagine you have grasped what is going on.

I don’t feel comfortable posting a site to see them on here. But I would PM you if you wish to see what the reality is.
 
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